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Garrison Mathews - Professional Shooter

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Re: Garrison Mathews - Professional Shooter 

Post#201 » by payitforward » Fri Sep 17, 2021 7:56 pm

nate33 wrote:
payitforward wrote:Just googled Garrison to find... nothing. I don't get it to tell the truth.

Nothing? Wouldn't he sign in China? Get a job as a high school coach? Complain? Something...?

Yeah, it's really odd to me too.

The only thing I can think of is that maybe he has been assured of a roster spot somewhere but has to wait until the team cuts a guy first (and the team hasn't cut the guy yet because maybe they're exploring trade options).

This is more or less what I have thought all along -- & that "somewhere" is right here.

But, we're getting kind of close to the start of camp, making my hypothesis a bit shaky.

Given how many forwards we have on the roster, doesn't it seem obvious that Mathews would be more valuable than Gill?

But, I don't think we can "cut" Gill (or anybody) & add Mathews -- even at a veteran minimum salary: I think that would take us into luxury tax territory, no?
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Re: Garrison Mathews - Professional Shooter 

Post#202 » by nate33 » Fri Sep 17, 2021 9:02 pm

payitforward wrote:But, I don't think we can "cut" Gill (or anybody) & add Mathews -- even at a veteran minimum salary: I think that would take us into luxury tax territory, no?

Correct.

I'm pretty sure all 15 contracts are guaranteed, so we can't cut any of them.
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Re: Garrison Mathews - Professional Shooter 

Post#203 » by payitforward » Sat Sep 18, 2021 2:09 am

So, in the end the question is whether there'll be another trade.

Right now we have 4.5 guards (Beal, Dinwiddie, Neto & Holiday plus KCP as a part time 2). But we have 7.5 forwards (Rui, Deni, Bertans, Kuzma, Kispert, Todd & Gill plus KCP as a part time 3).

For that matter, Gafford played some minutes with another Center on the floor last year. & Harrell played the 4 his first three years in the league.

The roster balance is pretty strange. Nor is there any reason to think of it as altogether intentional -- we traded Russ for the maximum total value we could get back in return. They didn't have guards to get us that in the trade.

Ideally, I'd like to see Kuzma moved in a trade that got us Mathews in his place.

edit: & opened up some cap room to make it possible to keep some players next year!
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Re: Garrison Mathews - Professional Shooter 

Post#204 » by Gig18 » Fri Sep 24, 2021 9:54 pm

Looks like Garrison is signing with the Celts.

ughhh.
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Re: Garrison Mathews - Professional Shooter 

Post#205 » by Dat2U » Fri Sep 24, 2021 11:29 pm

Gig18 wrote:Looks like Garrison is signing with the Celts.

ughhh.


Keeping Gill over Matthews is still the 2nd most head scratching move of the offseason. Considering his shooting as well the roster balance with Gill being one of 6 guys that can primarily play PF and Matthews one of 2 that could see some minutes at both the 2 & 3.
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Re: Garrison Mathews - Professional Shooter 

Post#206 » by payitforward » Sat Sep 25, 2021 2:22 am

Dat2U wrote:
Gig18 wrote:Looks like Garrison is signing with the Celts.

ughhh.

Keeping Gill over Matthews is still the 2nd most head scratching move of the offseason. Considering his shooting as well the roster balance with Gill being one of 6 guys that can primarily play PF and Matthews one of 2 that could see some minutes at both the 2 & 3.

I never thought of it that way, but of course you are 100% correct.

Mathews is signing a camp deal; he will compete for a roster spot. The Celtics have 14 guaranteed contracts -- & are about $6.5m into the luxury tax, so they'll be looking for a cheap player.

They have a bunch of other guys coming into camp as well.

Ticks me off that Mathews isn't a Wizard. Of course I'd rather have him than Gill. But, I'd also rather have him than Davis Bertans at $16m.
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Re: Garrison Mathews - Professional Shooter 

Post#207 » by nate33 » Sat Sep 25, 2021 12:59 pm

Dat2U wrote:
Gig18 wrote:Looks like Garrison is signing with the Celts.

ughhh.


Keeping Gill over Matthews is still the 2nd most head scratching move of the offseason. Considering his shooting as well the roster balance with Gill being one of 6 guys that can primarily play PF and Matthews one of 2 that could see some minutes at both the 2 & 3.

Once KCP arrived (and Kispert was drafted), Mathews might simply have decided that he has no shot at minutes here and it would be in his best interests to join a team that could give him playing time.
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Re: Garrison Mathews - Professional Shooter 

Post#208 » by payitforward » Sat Sep 25, 2021 3:42 pm

Sure. But, this is a last-minute, unguaranteed camp deal -- & above all that's what I don't get.

Mathews played quite well last season. The first half of the season, when Russ was dominating less, he played extremely well. Most of us (including you I think) concluded that he'd established himself in the league & would get some sort of a "young journeyman" offer -- well North of a vet minimum deal & likely for multiple years with at least year 1 guaranteed.

I certainly thought that. I would have given him that kind of deal. & I haven't changed my mind either.

This reminds me a little bit of Christian Wood's situation the first couple of years after he went undrafted. It would be no surprise if it found its way to a similar outcome.

It was just plain stupid not to retain Garrison Mathews. There's no other way to describe it. You can think of Mathews as sort of like the reverse of a guy like Jerome Robinson, who gets paid @$12m to prove that he can't play.
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Re: Garrison Mathews - Professional Shooter 

Post#209 » by doclinkin » Sat Sep 25, 2021 7:34 pm

payitforward wrote:
This reminds me a little bit of Christian Wood's situation the first couple of years after he went undrafted.


Which was why I postulated that there might be an off the court issue. A locker room issue or the like. Christian Wood had a reputation of being something of a slacker and malcontent and bad attitude. That information traveled ahead of him until he changed his work ethic and attitude. He admits it.

And here it doesn't even have to be that he is a malcontent. Mathews strikes me as a competitive individual. Fiery and toughminded. I expect since he was being starved of touches and used less and less he can't have been happy. It's possible he said something, or asked to be traded. Ted has a policy of never holding on to a player who doesn't want to be here with his smirky maxim "Life is too short to drink bad wine". So at that point, based on organizational policy, the team simply lets go a player whose contract is expired. Maybe they tried to trade him with Troy etc but had no takers.

Scott Brooks has a reputation as a player's coach, but players like Troy Brown and Tomas Satoransky felt jerked around and confused by his conflicting messages, and not supported by the organization. What Brooks is is a star sniffer. If you are a role player then you simply don't matter and your voice gets lost. I'd bet Mathews would prefer to be anywhere that values what he does do well. Here Beal is going to get the lion's share of the touches, last year it was Russ and Beal. If Mathews was unhappy and let it be known, given his performance, I'd say it was reasonable. Still maybe he was perceived as sulking or checked out. Other teams don't pay as close attention to other team's role players. But if even the team that inked him and brought him up was letting him go, then other GMs may think: "we like his stats but hey, they probably know something we don't" and steer clear.

I agree it is stupid, and I personally was irked when I say that the job advert for scouts for the organization had Ted's bad wine maxim in the company policy. Competitive players are going to chomp at the bit and fight. We lose CWebb and Sheed etc when we don't appreciate that the best players are tough to handle at times, and not everybody is a boy scout. I don't know that Mathews expressed dissatisfaction at losing minutes, but I know that I as a fan did. I have to assume he was rightly pissed that during a contract year the team was playing Raul Neto as a small forward and shooting guard, instead of letting Mathews do the thing he does very well.
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Re: Garrison Mathews - Professional Shooter 

Post#210 » by payitforward » Sat Sep 25, 2021 8:58 pm

Anything's possible, but honestly doc I'd hate to contribute to manufacturing that kind of rep. Every quote I ever read from Mathews was totally supportive -- esp. of Brad -- & of a "gotta try to do more" nature.

Anyway, I imagine we all hope he does well for himself. Hope that for all these kids....
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Re: Garrison Mathews - Professional Shooter 

Post#211 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:22 pm

doclinkin wrote:
payitforward wrote:
This reminds me a little bit of Christian Wood's situation the first couple of years after he went undrafted.


Which was why I postulated that there might be an off the court issue. A locker room issue or the like. Christian Wood had a reputation of being something of a slacker and malcontent and bad attitude. That information traveled ahead of him until he changed his work ethic and attitude. He admits it.

And here it doesn't even have to be that he is a malcontent. Mathews strikes me as a competitive individual. Fiery and toughminded. I expect since he was being starved of touches and used less and less he can't have been happy. It's possible he said something, or asked to be traded. Ted has a policy of never holding on to a player who doesn't want to be here with his smirky maxim "Life is too short to drink bad wine". So at that point, based on organizational policy, the team simply lets go a player whose contract is expired. Maybe they tried to trade him with Troy etc but had no takers.

Scott Brooks has a reputation as a player's coach, but players like Troy Brown and Tomas Satoransky felt jerked around and confused by his conflicting messages, and not supported by the organization. What Brooks is is a star sniffer. If you are a role player then you simply don't matter and your voice gets lost. I'd bet Mathews would prefer to be anywhere that values what he does do well. Here Beal is going to get the lion's share of the touches, last year it was Russ and Beal. If Mathews was unhappy and let it be known, given his performance, I'd say it was reasonable. Still maybe he was perceived as sulking or checked out. Other teams don't pay as close attention to other team's role players. But if even the team that inked him and brought him up was letting him go, then other GMs may think: "we like his stats but hey, they probably know something we don't" and steer clear.

I agree it is stupid, and I personally was irked when I say that the job advert for scouts for the organization had Ted's bad wine maxim in the company policy. Competitive players are going to chomp at the bit and fight. We lose CWebb and Sheed etc when we don't appreciate that the best players are tough to handle at times, and not everybody is a boy scout. I don't know that Mathews expressed dissatisfaction at losing minutes, but I know that I as a fan did. I have to assume he was rightly pissed that during a contract year the team was playing Raul Neto as a small forward and shooting guard, instead of letting Mathews do the thing he does very well.
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Re: Garrison Mathews - Professional Shooter 

Post#212 » by payitforward » Mon Oct 4, 2021 11:48 pm

Out of curiosity, I visited the Celtics Board -- they are quite positive, some of them excited, about Garrison Mathews.
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Re: Garrison Mathews - Professional Shooter 

Post#213 » by payitforward » Sun Oct 17, 2021 2:46 pm

The Celtics have offered Mathews a 2-way contract. And... he's turned it down! He thinks he's shown enough in the league to warrant a regular roster spot.

I agree with him. I'll be very surprised if he doesn't wind up getting one.
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Re: Garrison Mathews - Professional Shooter 

Post#214 » by dckingsfan » Sun Oct 17, 2021 3:18 pm

payitforward wrote:The Celtics have offered Mathews a 2-way contract. And... he's turned it down! He thinks he's shown enough in the league to warrant a regular roster spot.

I agree with him. I'll be very surprised if he doesn't wind up getting one.

If not, he should be able to get a very solid contract in Europe. Work on his handles and then come back.
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Re: Garrison Mathews - Professional Shooter 

Post#215 » by nate33 » Sun Oct 17, 2021 3:52 pm

I believe we still have a 2-way slot available. But I think dckingsfan makes a good point. Mathews is probably better off going overseas, making (hopefully) a bit more money, and then trying again in the NBA after he has honed his ball-handling skills a bit.
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Re: Garrison Mathews - Professional Shooter 

Post#216 » by payitforward » Sun Oct 17, 2021 7:05 pm

If he turned down the Celtics offer of a 2 way, I assume he'd also turn down one from us.

In any case, for sure, whether he ever returns to the NBA or not, playing the game he loves in Europe, for hundreds of thousands of dollars, can't be too bad a choice, can it?

What strikes me odd is that this is a guy who played over 1000 minutes in a shortened NBA season & played quite well overall. In fact, before Russell began to dominate the ball, Mathews played like a well above average NBA wing.

IMO, put him on pretty much any team in the league, & he will help. He'll make that team better.
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Re: Garrison Mathews - Professional Shooter 

Post#217 » by long suffrin' boulez fan » Sun Oct 17, 2021 10:10 pm

payitforward wrote:If he turned down the Celtics offer of a 2 way, I assume he'd also turn down one from us.

In any case, for sure, whether he ever returns to the NBA or not, playing the game he loves in Europe, for hundreds of thousands of dollars, can't be too bad a choice, can it?

What strikes me odd is that this is a guy who played over 1000 minutes in a shortened NBA season & played quite well overall. In fact, before Russell began to dominate the ball, Mathews played like a well above average NBA wing.

IMO, put him on pretty much any team in the league, & he will help. He'll make that team better.


We have four friggin pgs. Find some way to unload Winston and sign Matthews to a grown up contract
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Re: Garrison Mathews - Professional Shooter 

Post#218 » by closg00 » Sun Oct 17, 2021 10:51 pm

Next-stop, overseas
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Re: Garrison Mathews - Professional Shooter 

Post#219 » by payitforward » Mon Oct 18, 2021 6:49 pm

Winston has a 2 way contract. I don't think there's any problem canceling one of those. Of course, that wouldn't help, since the point is that we have 15 guaranteed contracts. I.e., to sign Mathews, we'd first have to make a 2-out for 1-in trade of some kind.

We wouldn't trade Dinwiddie, for obvious reasons, & we liked Holiday well enough to trade for him. That leaves Neto. He's is extremely productive for a guy making as little as he does. I wouldn't want to trade him.

Good luck, Garrison Mathews -- may you thrive wherever you land!
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Re: Garrison Mathews - Professional Shooter 

Post#220 » by Eli Babak » Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:19 am

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/264465/Rockets-Claim-Garrison-Mathews-Off-Waivers-Convert-Contract-To-Two-Way

Weird... Well, Houston's rebuilding and I think Mathews will eventually get a "real" NBA contract from them - or at least I hope so!

(I wish Wiz would've just waived Gill's non-guaranteed contract and signed Mathews. Maybe there was some drama that we're not aware of.)

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