2021-22 Season/Offseason Speculation

[WeekapaugGroove]

This decision reeks of Sarver tho. And he was seen meeting with Ayton in that hotel. I have a feeling Sarver is the type to act all condescendingly to his players like he thinks he's better than them. Ayton is an All-star caliber player, but Sarver is a scrub owner

Its Sarver. He thinks a max player should be Doncic or Trae Young - a guy who is scoring 28-30 per night. Or maybe have Duncan like stats: 25/12.

Its just short-sighted and stupid. And when it didn't get done at the times that Doncic and Trae Young got done - I was partly worried. I just never thought Sarver could be this stupid still. I really thought he had a business model for the future based on the moves this offseason

he is a clueless dolt of an owner. Between Spanos and Sarver - I am not sure which owner is worse; more dense, or obtuse with less business acumen for running a sports team.

Ive long said having a bad owner is the worst thing for a sports fan. Bad players, coaches, front office all get replaced eventually but a bad owner that's like herpes.

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[Book1Nation]

Sarver is such a MF

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[BobbieL]

This decision reeks of Sarver tho. And he was seen meeting with Ayton in that hotel. I have a feeling Sarver is the type to act all condescendingly to his players like he thinks he's better than them. Ayton is an All-star caliber player, but Sarver is a scrub owner

Its Sarver. He thinks a max player should be Doncic or Trae Young - a guy who is scoring 28-30 per night. Or maybe have Duncan like stats: 25/12.

Its just short-sighted and stupid. And when it didn't get done at the times that Doncic and Trae Young got done - I was partly worried. I just never thought Sarver could be this stupid still. I really thought he had a business model for the future based on the moves this offseason

he is a clueless dolt of an owner. Between Spanos and Sarver - I am not sure which owner is worse; more dense, or obtuse with less business acumen for running a sports team.

Ive long said having a bad owner is the worst thing for a sports fan. Bad players, coaches, front office all get replaced eventually but a bad owner that's like herpes.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

BWG and I are both Chargers and Suns fans. And like I said above -- its like they are obtuse or dense. I seem similarities between the two. They step in, then step back. But their aura/presence in the building is always there.

And I go back to that rumored deal of Saric/Smith for Young. If Sarver were that worried about the lux tax and apron next summer b - I would have been okay with him giving the SPurs a future FRP (protected to a degree) - to sign Ayton and have the core he has.

[King4Day]

Sarver/Jones might be thinking 'Jerome James', and are scared it could become that, but on an even larger scale.
For those unfamiliar, James SUCKED. But one pocket of games suckered a team into paying him.

So, how did the Knicks get stuck with this guy?

After averaging a beastly five points and four rebounds per game for the Sonics from 2002-2005, Jerome put down the three cheese, two meat lasagna for 11 playoffs games averaging about 12 points and six rebounds per game.

Knicks management firmly believed that James was the next great big man—Five years/$30 million.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/115626-jerome-james-a-new-york-nightmare

I'm certainly not saying this is the same, or remotely close to the same thing since we know the talent level and potential of each player are in different stratospheres. But maybe that's what Jones/Sarver are looking to protect themselves from. Midseason, I was hoping the Suns would try to trade DA for Collins and Capella. But by end of playoffs, I was thankful we didn't. And still am.

We don't know what goes on behind the scenes.

Cam Payne: Fans felt Payne would get 10-15mil per but never came close. Whether that's because he truly took a big discount to stay here or because he wasn't getting offers, will likely never be known.

Chris Paul: Fans felt he would get 3@ 90-100. He ultimately signed a 2 year 75mil if we don't pick up any options. 3@ 90 or 4@ 120 if we do. That little 15 mil buyout, nobody expected.

Mikal Bridges: Fans felt he'd get 4 @ 90-120 (I saw some thinking 4 @ 80). And if he held out a year, he might get anywhere from 4 @ 120 to maybe a max deal.
He signed 4 @ 90.

Point is, fans really don't know what's going on behind the scenes and how players are really valued around the league.

From the outside looking in, I could see how this may be partially DA's fault in how there were some games he simply didn't show up in and it took all season to finally show up and learn to truly play.
Sarver gains 2 things from this.

1. Force DA to prove it
2. Have more cap space to possible add something before DA signs his deal (something we hoped Booker would have done before his extension). I'm not sure how much that'll be and if it'll even be enough to make a dent.


There are just a lot of ways to look at this.

[King4Day]

Teams typically don't allow cornerstone players to get to RFA. Why would Ayton go all out if there are teams out there willing to give him a max? There will be Ayton rumors all season.

The Suns will nip ever rumor with 'we'll match any and every offer'.

As for trade talk. I don't expect anything unless we have a really poor start to the season and he's part of the reason.

[bwgood77]

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[bwgood77]

Sarver/Jones might be thinking 'Jerome James', and are scared it could become that, but on an even larger scale.
For those unfamiliar, James SUCKED. But one pocket of games suckered a team into paying him.

So, how did the Knicks get stuck with this guy?

After averaging a beastly five points and four rebounds per game for the Sonics from 2002-2005, Jerome put down the three cheese, two meat lasagna for 11 playoffs games averaging about 12 points and six rebounds per game.

Knicks management firmly believed that James was the next great big man—Five years/$30 million.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/115626-jerome-james-a-new-york-nightmare

I'm certainly not saying this is the same, or remotely close to the same thing since we know the talent level and potential of each player are in different stratospheres. But maybe that's what Jones/Sarver are looking to protect themselves from. Midseason, I was hoping the Suns would try to trade DA for Collins and Capella. But by end of playoffs, I was thankful we didn't. And still am.

We don't know what goes on behind the scenes.

Cam Payne: Fans felt Payne would get 10-15mil per but never came close. Whether that's because he truly took a big discount to stay here or because he wasn't getting offers, will likely never be known.

Chris Paul: Fans felt he would get 3@ 90-100. He ultimately signed a 2 year 75mil if we don't pick up any options. 3@ 90 or 4@ 120 if we do. That little 15 mil buyout, nobody expected.

Mikal Bridges: Fans felt he'd get 4 @ 90-120 (I saw some thinking 4 @ 80). And if he held out a year, he might get anywhere from 4 @ 120 to maybe a max deal.
He signed 4 @ 90.

Point is, fans really don't know what's going on behind the scenes and how players are really valued around the league.

From the outside looking in, I could see how this may be partially DA's fault in how there were some games he simply didn't show up in and it took all season to finally show up and learn to truly play.
Sarver gains 2 things from this.

1. Force DA to prove it
2. Have more cap space to possible add something before DA signs his deal (something we hoped Booker would have done before his extension). I'm not sure how much that'll be and if it'll even be enough to make a dent.

There are just a lot of ways to look at this.

We won't have cap space regardless to add something before signing him. We are far enough over that the difference between his cap hold $16 million and the start of a max $29 million won't create room under the cap.

[King4Day]

Watch from the 6 minute mark on...

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While what he says is true, if Phoenix knocks on his door at midnight, next summer, with a 5 year max offer, he's not talking to other teams and he's not going to consider the QO.

[BobbieL]

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I knew about the QB
but the idea that a team can sign him to a 1+1, the Suns match but than he is a FRee agent soon

I really do not understand Sarver but he will hide or say something stupid... again, if you want to win in the NBA< you gotta play the game

[darealjuice]

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Woj might as well be reading texts from Bill Duffy lol

[King4Day]

We won't have cap space regardless to add something before signing him. We are far enough over that the difference between his cap hold $16 million and the start of a max $29 million won't create room under the cap.

I had a feeling that would be the case.
So he's cheap and/or protecting himself from a bad investment.
We'll see how this plays out.

[BobbieL]

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While what he says is true, if Phoenix knocks on his door at midnight, next summer, with a 5 year max offer, he's not talking to other teams and he's not going to consider the QO.

this is also true. but the goodwill of this past season, the offseason. locking in Ayton would have been a great way to continue the good vibes going. As I think this team is going to be a top 3 team in the West.

[bwgood77]

Teams typically don't allow cornerstone players to get to RFA. Why would Ayton go all out if there are teams out there willing to give him a max? There will be Ayton rumors all season.

The Suns will nip ever rumor with 'we'll match any and every offer'.

As for trade talk. I don't expect anything unless we have a really poor start to the season and he's part of the reason.

The thing is, some team could offer him a 4 year max deal with a player option in year 4. Meaning instead of 5 years, when we match, we only have him for 3 then he opts out and goes elsewhere.

It would actually be smart for him to opt out after 3 years in his second contract if someone will max him because the max level jumps to 30% of the cap after 7 years in the league.



You may not above that he can only get 4 years with another team, so the difference in the difference in total deals is a bit misleading.

A 4 year deal in his 3rd deal is also actually better if someone would give him the max for his 4th deal because after 10 years it jumps to 35% of cap...so his 1st year of his next deal would be more than that 5th year anyway.

[BobbieL]

Sarver/Jones might be thinking 'Jerome James', and are scared it could become that, but on an even larger scale.
For those unfamiliar, James SUCKED. But one pocket of games suckered a team into paying him.

So, how did the Knicks get stuck with this guy?

After averaging a beastly five points and four rebounds per game for the Sonics from 2002-2005, Jerome put down the three cheese, two meat lasagna for 11 playoffs games averaging about 12 points and six rebounds per game.

Knicks management firmly believed that James was the next great big man—Five years/$30 million.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/115626-jerome-james-a-new-york-nightmare

I'm certainly not saying this is the same, or remotely close to the same thing since we know the talent level and potential of each player are in different stratospheres. But maybe that's what Jones/Sarver are looking to protect themselves from. Midseason, I was hoping the Suns would try to trade DA for Collins and Capella. But by end of playoffs, I was thankful we didn't. And still am.

We don't know what goes on behind the scenes.

Cam Payne: Fans felt Payne would get 10-15mil per but never came close. Whether that's because he truly took a big discount to stay here or because he wasn't getting offers, will likely never be known.

Chris Paul: Fans felt he would get 3@ 90-100. He ultimately signed a 2 year 75mil if we don't pick up any options. 3@ 90 or 4@ 120 if we do. That little 15 mil buyout, nobody expected.

Mikal Bridges: Fans felt he'd get 4 @ 90-120 (I saw some thinking 4 @ 80). And if he held out a year, he might get anywhere from 4 @ 120 to maybe a max deal.
He signed 4 @ 90.

Point is, fans really don't know what's going on behind the scenes and how players are really valued around the league.

From the outside looking in, I could see how this may be partially DA's fault in how there were some games he simply didn't show up in and it took all season to finally show up and learn to truly play.
Sarver gains 2 things from this.

1. Force DA to prove it
2. Have more cap space to possible add something before DA signs his deal (something we hoped Booker would have done before his extension). I'm not sure how much that'll be and if it'll even be enough to make a dent.

There are just a lot of ways to look at this.

We won't have cap space regardless to add something before signing him. We are far enough over that the difference between his cap hold $16 million and the start of a max $29 million won't create room under the cap.

So the Suns would have to renounce him to even have cap space and what free agents are out there that would be able to replace Ayton? My guess, not many. But Sarver would go out and sign a "Meyers Leonard" for whatever as its "close enough." They are both tall.

[bwgood77]

Watch from the 6 minute mark on...

Watch on YouTube

While what he says is true, if Phoenix knocks on his door at midnight, next summer, with a 5 year max offer, he's not talking to other teams and he's not going to consider the QO.

Likely true. If he was planning on doing that already he would have done it this summer. Now maybe he does it with improvement, but we don't know for sure. I think he will likely still try to negotiate and maybe match an offer.

The thing is, Sarver HAS TO KNOW he won't accept anything less than the max next summer as well, so in that case, waiting only creates discontent, and maybe not only with DA, but other stars who may not feel Sarver is committed to keeping this team together.

[BobbieL]

Watch from the 6 minute mark on...

Watch on YouTube

While what he says is true, if Phoenix knocks on his door at midnight, next summer, with a 5 year max offer, he's not talking to other teams and he's not going to consider the QO.

Likely true. If he was planning on doing that already he would have done it this summer. Now maybe he does it with improvement, but we don't know for sure. I think he will likely still try to negotiate and maybe match an offer.

The thing is, Sarver HAS TO KNOW he won't accept anything less than the max next summer as well, so in that case, waiting only creates discontent, and maybe not only with DA, but other stars who may not feel Sarver is committed to keeping this team together.

Is Sarver hoping for regression to get Ayton on the cheap - 130/5 or something.

[oddity]

Spoiler:

Sarver/Jones might be thinking 'Jerome James', and are scared it could become that, but on an even larger scale.
For those unfamiliar, James SUCKED. But one pocket of games suckered a team into paying him.



I'm certainly not saying this is the same, or remotely close to the same thing since we know the talent level and potential of each player are in different stratospheres. But maybe that's what Jones/Sarver are looking to protect themselves from. Midseason, I was hoping the Suns would try to trade DA for Collins and Capella. But by end of playoffs, I was thankful we didn't. And still am.

We don't know what goes on behind the scenes.

Cam Payne: Fans felt Payne would get 10-15mil per but never came close. Whether that's because he truly took a big discount to stay here or because he wasn't getting offers, will likely never be known.

Chris Paul: Fans felt he would get 3@ 90-100. He ultimately signed a 2 year 75mil if we don't pick up any options. 3@ 90 or 4@ 120 if we do. That little 15 mil buyout, nobody expected.

Mikal Bridges: Fans felt he'd get 4 @ 90-120 (I saw some thinking 4 @ 80). And if he held out a year, he might get anywhere from 4 @ 120 to maybe a max deal.
He signed 4 @ 90.

Point is, fans really don't know what's going on behind the scenes and how players are really valued around the league.

From the outside looking in, I could see how this may be partially DA's fault in how there were some games he simply didn't show up in and it took all season to finally show up and learn to truly play.
Sarver gains 2 things from this.

1. Force DA to prove it
2. Have more cap space to possible add something before DA signs his deal (something we hoped Booker would have done before his extension). I'm not sure how much that'll be and if it'll even be enough to make a dent.

There are just a lot of ways to look at this.

We won't have cap space regardless to add something before signing him. We are far enough over that the difference between his cap hold $16 million and the start of a max $29 million won't create room under the cap.

So the Suns would have to renounce him to even have cap space and what free agents are out there that would be able to replace Ayton? My guess, not many. But Sarver would go out and sign a "Meyers Leonard" for whatever as its "close enough." They are both tall.

As a Jew I gotta say I would violently hurl if we got Meyers Leonard

[bwgood77]

Sarver/Jones might be thinking 'Jerome James', and are scared it could become that, but on an even larger scale.
For those unfamiliar, James SUCKED. But one pocket of games suckered a team into paying him.



I'm certainly not saying this is the same, or remotely close to the same thing since we know the talent level and potential of each player are in different stratospheres. But maybe that's what Jones/Sarver are looking to protect themselves from. Midseason, I was hoping the Suns would try to trade DA for Collins and Capella. But by end of playoffs, I was thankful we didn't. And still am.

We don't know what goes on behind the scenes.

Cam Payne: Fans felt Payne would get 10-15mil per but never came close. Whether that's because he truly took a big discount to stay here or because he wasn't getting offers, will likely never be known.

Chris Paul: Fans felt he would get 3@ 90-100. He ultimately signed a 2 year 75mil if we don't pick up any options. 3@ 90 or 4@ 120 if we do. That little 15 mil buyout, nobody expected.

Mikal Bridges: Fans felt he'd get 4 @ 90-120 (I saw some thinking 4 @ 80). And if he held out a year, he might get anywhere from 4 @ 120 to maybe a max deal.
He signed 4 @ 90.

Point is, fans really don't know what's going on behind the scenes and how players are really valued around the league.

From the outside looking in, I could see how this may be partially DA's fault in how there were some games he simply didn't show up in and it took all season to finally show up and learn to truly play.
Sarver gains 2 things from this.

1. Force DA to prove it
2. Have more cap space to possible add something before DA signs his deal (something we hoped Booker would have done before his extension). I'm not sure how much that'll be and if it'll even be enough to make a dent.

There are just a lot of ways to look at this.

We won't have cap space regardless to add something before signing him. We are far enough over that the difference between his cap hold $16 million and the start of a max $29 million won't create room under the cap.

So the Suns would have to renounce him to even have cap space and what free agents are out there that would be able to replace Ayton? My guess, not many. But Sarver would go out and sign a "Meyers Leonard" for whatever as its "close enough." They are both tall.

It won't surprise me at all if Sarver say to find a good S&T saving us money. I would say someone like Jarrett Allen since they have Mobley now, but because they have Mobley why would they want Ayton?

So yeah, someone with cap space that simply wants a big upgrade. I don't think the Knicks have it but Mitchell Robinson or something like that.

[bwoolf2]

Ayton needs to earn that Max deal and I'm sure he isn't happy but cp and book will check him if need be, and Sarver needs to sale the team he doesn't have the type of money you need to own a successful NBA team he just doesn't, he is really really rich but by NBA standards he's broke

[bwgood77]

There is still a chance this is all posturing hoping Ayton's side will cave (ultimately this could end up like the Boogie situation for them..losing out on over $100 million)...

And then if they don't cave, Sarver agrees at the last minute.