2021-22 Season/Offseason Speculation

[BobbieL]

Pretty dumb decision. If you're not going to pay him the max, then they should have traded him to maximize his value and get an adequate return, instead of waiting to see how the year goes. It's a huge lose-lose situation for the organization that's trying to compete for a title.

Anyone who thinks Ayton will step it up has no clue. He's going to milk any kind of injury, less hustle on D, hunt for blocks rather than playing smart, and jack up less efficient shot. You think he's going to be happy while Bridges and Shamet, and the rest got paid?

I tend to agree - but who are you trading him for?

Tons of options. The Kings and their franchise player (Fox) wanted Ayton pre-draft. A package centering around Richaun Holmes would work for both. Celtics, Mavs, and Spurs are desperate for a center.

Holmes, Haliburton and Tristan for Ayton, Payne and Saric

[WeekapaugGroove]

Now I am a little bit worried about Ayton. If Sarver wanted to prioritize his reputation, he easily could have a
Maxed DA, saved money o with no shamet deal. Trade Dario/Jalen for an expiring.

I am starting to think this is James Jones decision. Maybe looking at Cam Johnson upcoming extension, and thinking that he would prefer to not build a team with a max center.

There is a valid argument with the C thing. But frankly if that was the case they should have traded Ayton already.

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[bwoolf2]

Pretty dumb decision. If you're not going to pay him the max, then they should have traded him to maximize his value and get an adequate return, instead of waiting to see how the year goes. It's a huge lose-lose situation for the organization that's trying to compete for a title.

Anyone who thinks Ayton will step it up has no clue. He's going to milk any kind of injury, less hustle on D, hunt for blocks rather than playing smart, and jack up less efficient shot. You think he's going to be happy while Bridges and Shamet, and the rest got paid?

If he milks it then he doesn’t deserve a max they didn't offer because of his attitude not his talent and they still have control for a couple of years so Ayton isn't going anywhere unless they trade him, and he milks it expect cp and book to tell Jones to look for a trade.

I can't stand Sarver and think he needs to sale but on this one I'm ok with making DA prove the playoffs weren't an aberration and he was happy losing in the finals so maybe if this passes him off losing will start to pass him off as well

Any player in his position, even if it's the Lebron of the world, will milk his way through and avoid an injury. $$ speaks. You're talking about generational money vs injury risk. He's not going to sleep walk through the year BUT that extra hustle, that extra effort coming back from an injury, etc wont be there. Those offensive rebounds where he feeds his teammate for open 3, those are going to be funnel into his stats.

I haven't seen that with other players they have massive insurance policies, but if that's ayton which it was for large portions of last year even without the contract situation then so be it may be better to move on.

[Saberestar]

I love Shamet's new contract, it's gonna be a bargain pretty soon.

[darealjuice]

Shamet getting paid indicates to me that it’s James Jones not Sarver

Jesus Christ. You guys love giving Sarver a pass. So some how the notoriously cheap owner has nothing to do with this ridiculously cheap decision? Sarver's just an innocent bystander in this Ayton debacle?

I'm confused what's been "ridiculously cheap" about this offseason lol? This board, you included, constantly complained about Shamet being a 1-year rental salary dump for Sarver's wallet, yet we signed him to a $40M extension before he's even touched the court for us. We retained CP3, Payne, extended Mikal to a $90M, and filled our only big roster hole with McGee. It's not like we tore it apart like the Mavericks did lol.

Does it shock you that much that people don't think Ayton's worth a max extension or something? The list of centers getting max contracts after averaging 14/11 isn't exactly long lol. I don't get why everyone is so much more concerned about him mailing it in for not getting extended than mailing it in after he gets his guarantees lol, this is the dude that was talking about his second contract to the media before he stepped on the court.

[Revived]

There’s gonna some tension in the locker room this season imo. Not just the Ayton thing but Shamet getting paid nearly double than Payne before ever playing a game for suns isn’t likely to sit all that well with Payne either. Especially after all that Payne’s done the last year and half for the organization.

I don’t think any team in the league would’ve came to close to this offer next summer either. Suns basically outbid themselves for this.

[bwoolf2]

There’s gonna some tension in the locker room this season imo. Not just the Ayton thing but Shamet getting paid nearly double than Payne before ever playing a game for suns isn’t likely to sit all that well with Payne either. Especially after all that Payne’s done the last year and half for the organization.

I don’t think any team in the league would’ve came to close to this offer next summer either. Suns basically outbid themselves for this.

Strongly disagree here, Shamet is a lot better than you think, that contract is going to look like a bargin in a couple of years

[Jdiddy701]

Shamet getting paid indicates to me that it’s James Jones not Sarver

Jesus Christ. You guys love giving Sarver a pass. So some how the notoriously cheap owner has nothing to do with this ridiculously cheap decision? Sarver's just an innocent bystander in this Ayton debacle?

I'm confused what's been "ridiculously cheap" about this offseason lol? This board, you included, constantly complained about Shamet being a 1-year rental salary dump for Sarver's wallet, yet we signed him to a $40M extension before he's even touched the court for us. We retained CP3, Payne, extended Mikal to a $90M, and filled our only big roster hole with McGee. It's not like we tore it apart like the Mavericks did lol.

Does it shock you that much that people don't think Ayton's worth a max extension or something? The list of centers getting max contracts after averaging 14/11 isn't exactly long lol. I don't get why everyone is so much more concerned about him mailing it in for not getting extended than mailing it in after he gets his guarantees lol, this is the dude that was talking about his second contract to the media before he stepped on the court.

I would not be surprised to see plenty of games this year where Javale McGee outplays DA and finishes games in the 4th quarter.

Good that the Suns did not cave in and give him what he wants.

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[GoodBehavior]

Now I am a little bit worried about Ayton. If Sarver wanted to prioritize his reputation, he easily could have a
Maxed DA, saved money o with no shamet deal. Trade Dario/Jalen for an expiring.

I am starting to think this is James Jones decision. Maybe looking at Cam Johnson upcoming extension, and thinking that he would prefer to not build a team with a max center.

The Cam Johnson's angle is really interesting. It's going to be a tough decision with or without Ayton no matter what. Cam is intriguing but he has yet to prove that he can be a starter at the 4, putting aside his durability issue. I do hope he balls out next year. He might have been the only player that wasn't god-awful during the final 4 games.

The Ayton's decision reeks of cheapness. Both sides were negotiating until the final day, which means the gap between what Ayton's want (Max) and what the organization was willing to offer was probably small. The Woj's first bomb specifically called out Sarver. And prior to the Woj's bomb, Jones and Ayton sound mildly optimistic that something was going to be done. So it hard not to conclude it's Sarver and his cheapness.

[dremill24]

Yeah not crazy about the Shamet deal unless he starts really showing some skills that he hasnt before.

Can give DA a $125-130mil contract next summer and its still more than he can get anywhere else, dont know why he'd turn that down. Or hey if he shows more growth, can still give him his max at that point.

[Ghost of Kleine]

[quote="bwgood77"][quote="BobbieL"][quote="bwgood77"]

We won't have cap space regardless to add something before signing him. We are far enough over that the difference between his cap hold $16 million and the start of a max $29 million won't create room under the cap.[/quote]

So the Suns would have to renounce him to even have cap space and what free agents are out there that would be able to replace Ayton? My guess, not many. But Sarver would go out and sign a "Meyers Leonard" for whatever as its "close enough." They are both tall.[/quote]

[b][i][u][color=#FF0000]It won't surprise me at all if Sarver say to find a good S&T saving us money[/color][/u][/i][/b]. I would say someone like Jarrett Allen since they have Mobley now, but because they have Mobley why would they want Ayton?

So yeah, someone with cap space that simply wants a big upgrade. I don't think the Knicks have it but Mitchell Robinson or something like that.[/quote]

I think things will play out this way honestly too. I say this because Ayton is still young and will be sensitive to his valuation in these matters when watching everyone else already get paid! Deservedly so or not! These 1+1 deals that the suns would have to match are very interesting to consider in that if his agents are clever, and Ayton feels hurt and disrespected enough ( amongst his peers) for not getting paid, That he could use this method to force Phoenixs' hand in paying him, and still leave the following season to an arranged team ( his agents negotiate with for the restricted match) perhaps New York ( would be a contender with him and Thibodeau) plus his agent could sell him on the endorsements as well! But to your point, I believe that Saver would just as emphatically play the odds hoping to match him at a discount if possible, and then just look to replace him with cheaper low impact replacement bigs ( ala Amare / New York situation). And of course pass the buck on the blame!

[b][i][u][color=#FF0000]So yeah, someone with cap space that simply wants a big upgrade. I don't think the Knicks have it but Mitchell Robinson or something like that.[/color][/u][/i][/b]

[b][u]New York[/u][/b]
Definitely has interest! As well as San Antonio and a number of other teams too. New York offered something around a sign 'n' trade deal of:

Mitchell Robinson/ Barrett ( or Toppin)? / Quickly/ and two firsts. I like Robinson as comparable to Ayton in terms of defensive production/ impact. But he's got no offense to speak of aside from rim running lobs and dunks.

[b][u]Toronto[/u][/b]
Offered ( basically) A Siakim for Ayton swap. However Siakim is already on a Max too, So I'd rather just flip Siakim to another team for more cost effective assets in return. Maybe Sacramento Siakim/ Flynn + 2023 protected first ( Toronto) for Davion Mitchell/ Richaun Holmes/ Sacramento first? ( sac flips Hield in the deal for Toronto's 2023 protected first or something along those lines.

Or perhaps in a 4 team trade,
- Toronto gets Ayton and Hield.
- Sacramento gets Siakim/ Flynn / Toronto first.
- Detroit gets Marvin Bagley / Richaun Holmes/ Phoenix 2026 ( lottery protected first).
- Phoenix gets Davion Mitchell/ Isiah Stewart/ Olynyk/ Sacramento 2022 first.

[b][u]San Antonio[/u][/b]
Would intend to just throw him a max offer and return no assets, But in a sign 'n' trade deal, They'd have to at the very least pony up something along the lines of:
Devin Vassell/ Tre Jones/Jacob Poeltl/ 2022 first. Or Murray or White/ Vassell/ Poeltl/ first.

[i][b][u]Charlotte[/u][/b][/i] has also emphatically mentioned interest in offering a max for him. In a sign 'n' trade deal they'd have to at least offer:
Plumlee/ *Kai Jones */ Vernon Carey and two firsts. I mention Jones being Key in the deal as he's a long uber athletic versatile big with similar athleticism and versatility/ upside to Ayton ( to a slightly lesser degree of course).

[b][u]Memphis[/u][/b]' offer was a non starter. But they had legitimate interest before resigning Jackson Jr. Not sure if they'd have interest now though.

[b][u]Chicago[/u][/b]
Has interest and mentioned an Ayton for Vucevic swap. Now Vucevic could probably give us the closest offensive production in terms of offense and rebounding. But our defense would be a lot worse off! We'd definitely need a strong defensive/ rim protecting 4. Maybe a trade for Boucher if possible? ( post trade).

[b][u]Orlando[/u][/b]
Has interest, But would need to at least offer:
Wendell Carter/ Cole Anthony/ 2 firsts.

The firsts from these lottery teams would be important in that It'd give us options at one of:

1- Yannick Zsosa.
A better more versatile Capela with offensive potential.
2- Patrick Baldwin. A stronger MPJ or a 6'8 Klay Thompson?
3- Damian Collins. A 6'9 ( 7'6 wingspan) 2.0 version of a young Anthony Davis. All cost controlled for a number of years since that is the determining factor for Saver anyways to somewhat keep our core together.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Duplicate post! Phone is having all sorts of issues. So apologies for whatever mishaps are occurring in my posts.

[Revived]

$10M/yr for Shamet means at least $22M/yr for Cam Johnson next summer. Cam’s gotta be excited about that.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Again **** Sarver and I hope he sells.


But a couple things im really curious about. I do kind of suspect there might be some people in the org that aren't 100% sold on DeAndre for whatever reason. I wonder how close they got to trading him last year. I also wonder Booker's thoughts on him because I never got the sense Devin loved him and he doesn't seem to go out of his way to praise him like Paul seems to.

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[Revived]

Read on Twitter

So looks like the issue was the amount of years.

[Fo-Real]

$10M/yr for Shamet means at least $22M/yr for Cam Johnson next summer. Cam’s gotta be excited about that.

I see Cam in the 16-18 mil range.

[Fo-Real]

I hate this but let's be real, Ayton goes as our guards go!! If they aren't getting him open rolls and spoon fed set ups, he is just a great defensive minded big. You take away the sweet set ups and just let him go get his points on his own like dudes like Embiid, Joker, Towns or Nurkic, and he is an average big on offense!!

[GoodBehavior]

Spoiler:

I hate this but let's be real, Ayton goes as our guards go!! If they aren't getting him open rolls and spoon fed set ups, he is just a great defensive minded big. You take away the sweet set ups and just let him go get his points on his own like dudes like Embiid, Joker, Towns or Nurkic, and he is an average big on offense!!

I don't know about spoon-fed. He attracts a fair amount of attention and it opens up our shooters. Gobert is probably an average offense big. IMO Ayton is way better than Gobert on that end.

[Calvin Klein]

This is not the way to deal with a team that just went to the **** Finals. I can't believe there's still people who stand by this a*****.

[Frank Lee]

So Ayton could have inked a 3 or 4 yr max deal but didn’t? That’s nuts. What’s the number on those ?

Kind of sounds like a basketball decision. Love how tight lipped the FO is on this.