2021-22 Season/Offseason Speculation

[Slim Charless]

I think that assumption is going a bit far. I dont' think it would be as harmonious if his deal was done but I don't think it'll be ****. Right now, it's kind of like Ayton vs Sarver, he's disappointed and unhappy about Sarver but once he's back in the fold with the fellas and we're winning games, there's only one thing he can do and that's focus on basketball. I think Ayton is a pro and I don't think he'll act out

I think it's a point of personal pride for these players to assert status / relevance among their peers through their contractual achievements as well as winning. And I agree that he's a professional and won't act out in a blatantly obvious manner of course. But again, There absolutely will be a modicum of tension, contempt and animosity amongst the players. Also, I do think he'll be concentrating more on showcasing himself in interest of his market value next summer to potential suitors rather than deferring as much as he has in interest of general team success. It's important to remember, Everyone else has secured their contracts EXCEPT HIM! regardless of disparity in percieved value, he's looking for his 1st legitimate big contract and is a new father to boot! He'll be prioritizing marketing himself more than ever before with the knowledge that Saver obviously doesn't value him to the amount he's seeking. So whilst he won't be an outright cancerous malcontent ( as it'd damage his market value). He won't be looking to defer and play complimentary in interest of team success and team play as much as establishing his own value heading into restricted free agency. He won't trust Saver or the suns front office to meet his financial requests. So he'll use this season to market himself and escalate his value as much as possible!

If what you say is true he will have to become a completely different person than. He has been through high school, college, and his pro career to date, is it possible sure, is it likely it's hard for a peach to become an apple. I just don't see it.

I don't think he'll "act up" per se, but I do think he'll be looking for his numbers more than previous. Maybe this will make him attack the hoop more relentlessly. Certainly not a bad thing. I'm sure Detroit, NYK or Minnesota will love the new angry Ayton.

[bwoolf2]

I think it's a point of personal pride for these players to assert status / relevance among their peers through their contractual achievements as well as winning. And I agree that he's a professional and won't act out in a blatantly obvious manner of course. But again, There absolutely will be a modicum of tension, contempt and animosity amongst the players. Also, I do think he'll be concentrating more on showcasing himself in interest of his market value next summer to potential suitors rather than deferring as much as he has in interest of general team success. It's important to remember, Everyone else has secured their contracts EXCEPT HIM! regardless of disparity in percieved value, he's looking for his 1st legitimate big contract and is a new father to boot! He'll be prioritizing marketing himself more than ever before with the knowledge that Saver obviously doesn't value him to the amount he's seeking. So whilst he won't be an outright cancerous malcontent ( as it'd damage his market value). He won't be looking to defer and play complimentary in interest of team success and team play as much as establishing his own value heading into restricted free agency. He won't trust Saver or the suns front office to meet his financial requests. So he'll use this season to market himself and escalate his value as much as possible!

If what you say is true he will have to become a completely different person than. He has been through high school, college, and his pro career to date, is it possible sure, is it likely it's hard for a peach to become an apple. I just don't see it.

I don't think he'll "act up" per se, but I do think he'll be looking for his numbers more than previous. Maybe this will make him attack the hoop more relentlessly. Certainly not a bad thing. I'm sure Detroit, NYK or Minnesota will love the new angry Ayton.

Well they will have to trade for him or wait for a few more years but sure eventually, but I don't see him leaving unless he doesn't get the max but he plays like that suns will give it to him.

[bigfoot]

I just hope Sarver didn't say "Go out and prove you are a max player this year and we'll talk" and players encourage him all year to "show them you are worth that max" (they probably won't want to broach the subject though) and then he completely dominates and balls out and everyone, even someone like bigfoot thinks he's worth the max and Sarver STILL says "nope, it wasn't enough".

It's 100% apparent Ayton was not max-worthy over his first two seasons of play. Contrast that with Doncic and Trae Young who were obviously max-worthy after their first two years. Both have been all-stars and the number 1 guy taking their teams to the playoffs.

Ayton on the other hand has shown up somewhat out of shape and gets a 25 game suspension during that time. Then he self-admits that he and CP3 banged heads a lot during the first part of the season. There are repeated reports this past season that Ayton gets yelled at by Monty, CP3, and Booker in the huddle more than any other player. Not unexpected, DA over the course of this past season still is Houdini-like over stretches of games.

I find that him demanding nothing less than a 5-year max pretty damn disgusting. His IQ (financial and bb) must be lacking because a 3 or 4-year max would have been worth way more money except under one condition. That would be if Ayton was on an all-NBA team, DYOP, or league MVP this coming season. He should have been thinking about being more serious his first few years instead of waiting until the playoffs of his third.

As far as I'm concerned he's made his bed.

[suns12345]

I just hope Sarver didn't say "Go out and prove you are a max player this year and we'll talk" and players encourage him all year to "show them you are worth that max" (they probably won't want to broach the subject though) and then he completely dominates and balls out and everyone, even someone like bigfoot thinks he's worth the max and Sarver STILL says "nope, it wasn't enough".

It's 100% apparent Ayton was not max-worthy over his first two seasons of play. Contrast that with Doncic and Trae Young who were obviously max-worthy after their first two years. Both have been all-stars and the number 1 guy taking their teams to the playoffs.

Ayton on the other hand has shown up somewhat out of shape and gets a 25 game suspension during that time. Then he self-admits that he and CP3 banged heads a lot during the first part of the season. There are repeated reports this past season that Ayton gets yelled at by Monty, CP3, and Booker in the huddle more than any other player. Not unexpected, DA over the course of this past season still is Houdini-like over stretches of games.

I find that him demanding nothing less than a 5-year max pretty damn disgusting. His IQ (financial and bb) must be lacking because a 3 or 4-year max would have been worth way more money except under one condition. That would be if Ayton was on an all-NBA team, DYOP, or league MVP this coming season. He should have been thinking about being more serious his first few years instead of waiting until the playoffs of his third.

As far as I'm concerned he's made his bed.

Agree, great take. As much as Ayton was excellent, he excelled in his role. And that role is behind two very dominant guards.

Trae and Luka for example, were the clear number 1 guys on playoff teams. Now, MPJ and Shai getting the max too maybe suggest DA should get one as well, but you could argue MPJ in particular hasnt done enough to deserve the deal he got.

In the end, I trust James jones to make the relationship and player management side work out - and for this not to be a huge issue. We will pay him what he is worth next season as a RFA

[Slim Charless]

If what you say is true he will have to become a completely different person than. He has been through high school, college, and his pro career to date, is it possible sure, is it likely it's hard for a peach to become an apple. I just don't see it.

I don't think he'll "act up" per se, but I do think he'll be looking for his numbers more than previous. Maybe this will make him attack the hoop more relentlessly. Certainly not a bad thing. I'm sure Detroit, NYK or Minnesota will love the new angry Ayton.

Well they will have to trade for him or wait for a few more years but sure eventually, but I don't see him leaving unless he doesn't get the max but he plays like that suns will give it to him.

They'd only have to wait 2 years. This one and after he signs the QO, next year. I expect it won't come to that $arver will trade him before that

[starbosa10]

Look ill be honest I was always one of those who thought we should have drafted Luka and was frustrated with Ayton's inconsistency. That being said I think how he preformed and improved in the playoffs showed he is worth the max. Also if you're going to draft someone at 1 overall and they're a key contributer in a Finals run I just don't see how you don't pay them the max.

Also I think the issue for most is Sarver has not earned the benefit of the doubt and his history of cost saving measures have ruined the Suns chances in the past

[garrick]

I just hope Sarver didn't say "Go out and prove you are a max player this year and we'll talk" and players encourage him all year to "show them you are worth that max" (they probably won't want to broach the subject though) and then he completely dominates and balls out and everyone, even someone like bigfoot thinks he's worth the max and Sarver STILL says "nope, it wasn't enough".

It's 100% apparent Ayton was not max-worthy over his first two seasons of play. Contrast that with Doncic and Trae Young who were obviously max-worthy after their first two years. Both have been all-stars and the number 1 guy taking their teams to the playoffs.

Ayton on the other hand has shown up somewhat out of shape and gets a 25 game suspension during that time. Then he self-admits that he and CP3 banged heads a lot during the first part of the season. There are repeated reports this past season that Ayton gets yelled at by Monty, CP3, and Booker in the huddle more than any other player. Not unexpected, DA over the course of this past season still is Houdini-like over stretches of games.

I find that him demanding nothing less than a 5-year max pretty damn disgusting. His IQ (financial and bb) must be lacking because a 3 or 4-year max would have been worth way more money except under one condition. That would be if Ayton was on an all-NBA team, DYOP, or league MVP this coming season. He should have been thinking about being more serious his first few years instead of waiting until the playoffs of his third.

As far as I'm concerned he's made his bed.

In the open market there are teams that would sign him to the max just because he's an excellent defender at the C and given how much Denver paid MPJ he should get the max.

Is he deserving of the max?

I would say most likely not but he has a lot of upside that a lot of teams would gamble on.

[lilfishi22]

I agree with the majority of your post and think that for this season, Ayton will be disconnected and absolutely have instances of apathy/ disinterest. However I also think that he'll now be looking all the more to " get his own " in terms of production, stats, improvement.
1- To validate his worth to his peers and potential suitors! As well as to show Saver and our front orifice that they made a mistake in not paying him!
2- To get retribution and vindication whenst he validates his max contract status and then leaves to another team to throw it back in Savers' face! And then continues to destroy us over the next 10+ yrs.

I think that assumption is going a bit far. I dont' think it would be as harmonious if his deal was done but I don't think it'll be ****. Right now, it's kind of like Ayton vs Sarver, he's disappointed and unhappy about Sarver but once he's back in the fold with the fellas and we're winning games, there's only one thing he can do and that's focus on basketball. I think Ayton is a pro and I don't think he'll act out

I think it's a point of personal pride for these players to assert status / relevance among their peers through their contractual achievements as well as winning. And I agree that he's a professional and won't act out in a blatantly obvious manner of course. But again, There absolutely will be a modicum of tension, contempt and animosity amongst the players. Also, I do think he'll be concentrating more on showcasing himself in interest of his market value next summer to potential suitors rather than deferring as much as he has in interest of general team success. It's important to remember, Everyone else has secured their contracts EXCEPT HIM! regardless of disparity in percieved value, he's looking for his 1st legitimate big contract and is a new father to boot! He'll be prioritizing marketing himself more than ever before with the knowledge that Saver obviously doesn't value him to the amount he's seeking. So whilst he won't be an outright cancerous malcontent ( as it'd damage his market value). He won't be looking to defer and play complimentary in interest of team success and team play as much as establishing his own value heading into restricted free agency. He won't trust Saver or the suns front office to meet his financial requests. So he'll use this season to market himself and escalate his value as much as possible!

Every player has ego and pride. That's how they get to the NBA. Most players have a healthy level of ego and pride and that's how they push themselves or get pushed by their environment to become better. Then there's those players who really take things to heart and their ego/pride becomes unhealthy, even toxic to the team environment.

Just because a player's ego or pride is hurt, it doesn't mean they are going to be disruptive and if there is tension, contempt and animosity, it won't be towards his team mates like Shamet, Bridges and Booker who all got their extensions, it'll be towards Sarver, it'll be towards the other guys in his class who got those max deals. As for whether he'll hurt the team by playing more selfish...I doubt it. He had 2 seasons to do that before this past season and he was never a selfish player. We've wanted him to be more selfish since his rookie season, it's not some concept that is foreign to us. If he does see an increase in his field goal attempts, more than likely it'll be by design as we look to him (and Mikal) to become that 3rd scorer that Monty has talked about.

Also I really don't understand the lack of trust that Sarver/Suns front office to meet his contract demands... whatever offer he gets next offseason WILL be met by the Suns. Whether it'll be our own 5 year deal or a matched 4 year max on the open market. We're not letting him walk for nothing. We had the option to extend him early this offseason, we also have that option next offseason and he doesn't lose a dime.

[matt131]

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[lilfishi22]

Look ill be honest I was always one of those who thought we should have drafted Luka and was frustrated with Ayton's inconsistency. That being said I think how he preformed and improved in the playoffs showed he is worth the max. Also if you're going to draft someone at 1 overall and they're a key contributer in a Finals run I just don't see how you don't pay them the max.

Also I think the issue for most is Sarver has not earned the benefit of the doubt and his history of cost saving measures have ruined the Suns chances in the past

Great post

[bwoolf2]

I don't think he'll "act up" per se, but I do think he'll be looking for his numbers more than previous. Maybe this will make him attack the hoop more relentlessly. Certainly not a bad thing. I'm sure Detroit, NYK or Minnesota will love the new angry Ayton.

Well they will have to trade for him or wait for a few more years but sure eventually, but I don't see him leaving unless he doesn't get the max but he plays like that suns will give it to him.

They'd only have to wait 2 years. This one and after he signs the QO, next year. I expect it won't come to that $arver will trade him before that

We can still offer more money and more years so it would likely be a sign and trade scenario anyway so it's not like he leaves and we get nothing if that plays out, which I don't think it does

[bigfoot]

Look ill be honest I was always one of those who thought we should have drafted Luka and was frustrated with Ayton's inconsistency. That being said I think how he preformed and improved in the playoffs showed he is worth the max. Also if you're going to draft someone at 1 overall and they're a key contributer in a Finals run I just don't see how you don't pay them the max.

Also I think the issue for most is Sarver has not earned the benefit of the doubt and his history of cost saving measures have ruined the Suns chances in the past

Yeah, tell your boss you want maximum pay because you were just serviceable for 90% of the year and then that last 10% you really turned it on.

Nobody questioned maxing Booker because the kid put it all out on the court every game. Bridges puts it out too. No question he deserved every dollar and probably should have gotten more. Mister Tall & Athletic can hardly bring it but 70% of the games and then demands max pay over five years. I shouldn't have expected anything less from the knucklehead who got suspended 25 games.

[bwgood77]

I just hope Sarver didn't say "Go out and prove you are a max player this year and we'll talk" and players encourage him all year to "show them you are worth that max" (they probably won't want to broach the subject though) and then he completely dominates and balls out and everyone, even someone like bigfoot thinks he's worth the max and Sarver STILL says "nope, it wasn't enough".

It's 100% apparent Ayton was not max-worthy over his first two seasons of play. Contrast that with Doncic and Trae Young who were obviously max-worthy after their first two years. Both have been all-stars and the number 1 guy taking their teams to the playoffs.

Ayton on the other hand has shown up somewhat out of shape and gets a 25 game suspension during that time. Then he self-admits that he and CP3 banged heads a lot during the first part of the season. There are repeated reports this past season that Ayton gets yelled at by Monty, CP3, and Booker in the huddle more than any other player. Not unexpected, DA over the course of this past season still is Houdini-like over stretches of games.

I find that him demanding nothing less than a 5-year max pretty damn disgusting. His IQ (financial and bb) must be lacking because a 3 or 4-year max would have been worth way more money except under one condition. That would be if Ayton was on an all-NBA team, DYOP, or league MVP this coming season. He should have been thinking about being more serious his first few years instead of waiting until the playoffs of his third.

As far as I'm concerned he's made his bed.

I don't disagree with a lot of that. I'm just saying I hope Sarver didn't tell him to prove it this season, watch him go to so, and then STILL balk at a max next summer.

He did say Monty and CP3 held him accountable. Demanded a lot, etc. I don't remember this "banging heads" thing you speak of. Ayton listens. Doesn't mean he didn't frustrate a vet like Paul as a 3rd year big learning...but CP3 also gave him his due talking about how he was the most important guy for them in the playoffs and he's gonna get paid and all that.

Personally I don't think he's quite worth the max, but if they were not far apart and would rather give him the max than lose him then I think they should have just gotten it done instead of creating potential discontent.

Of course I think Ayton is a lot better kid than you do and doubt this will create much discontent when it comes to his performance, attitude, etc, so that's fine. Would have been nice to get it behind us.

Now if they are really far apart on a deal, then waiting makes sense. But also it seems like most experts around the league felt he was worth a max deal. I know you and I have watched the NBA a long time so the cost seems absurd, but in this day and age, everyone is overpaid. A max for him wouldn't have been a bigger overpay than what Shamet got. We could do without Shamet..but not Ayton.

Yes, I agree Luka is obviously worth the max. He's the best player to come into the NBA since LeBron. And Trae you could argue too. It's when you get to Shai and Michael Porter that you get closer..and while they have a lot more offensive skills than Ayton, they don't have nearly the impact he does given his defensive presence and sheer gravity on offense.

[Ghost of Kleine]

This is satire right? lol

Perhaps it may seem that way to some who might be confused on how these things play out with real human dynamics such as percieved self valuation as well as that of athletes peers. As amongst their peers, Respect and value is measured by their financial alotments procured. As well as playing time. So honestly, what aspect of my post do you find satirical exactly? And why ?

My bad I forgot I'm not a human and those dynamics are above my head.

Smith and Johnson getting their options picked up on contracts that are already set in stone is not remotely the same, so that point is useless.

Saying he will surely leave out of contempt is just extremist and disregards many factors, including the history of this type of situation and CBA dynamics. He will be a restricted FA, so really cant leave even if he wants to, if the Suns want to keep him. Players go through this all the time without it being catastrophic, a very recent example is John Collins. Players are negotiating contract extensions all the time and not getting the huge number they're looking for, why is Ayton the only one who's going to disproportionately freak out?

Nobody has "dismantled" anything unless Ayton wants to be atypically diva-like about this. Hes still under contract for this season with RFA coming up, where they will again have the opportunity to offer him a boat load of money or match an offer sheet of a boat load of money.

Cmon man..."He'll want retribution for disrespecting him in terms of value amongst his peers!" is straight out of your post and you're surprised at my response? Its extreme hyperbole at the very least lol

My bad I forgot I'm not a human and those dynamics are above my head

You can be human and still overlook the human ( emotional) dynamics in a situation if you're only looking at it from a business perspective and not how it could affect someone on a more personal level with that person having emotional investment in the situation as it affects them personally and in their social circles, for their familial/ needs interests etc. We all do that at times, as we're all human and not infallible by any measure. So apologies if that triggered you in some personal way.

Smith and Johnson getting their options picked up on contracts that are already set in stone is not remotely the same, so that point is useless.

It's relevant in the context as stated in my post. Since we can't really negotiate any further with Ayton contractually until next summer, that's just more players seeking contractual security regardless of financial scale disparity that would be prioritized before him, whenst they've had ample time to find a common ground. Again in that context of prioritization/ value estimation, it is not at all useless. It's basically implying that Saver and the suns don't legitimately value Ayton as much as securing their complimentary pieces. But you're either able to understand the context or you aren't. Lastly, just like an extension you can choose to pick up their options or not. So your assertion that their not remotely the same is irrelevant.

Saying he will surely leave out of contempt is just extremist and disregards many factors, including the history of this type of situation and CBA dynamics. He will be a restricted FA, so really cant leave even if he wants to, if the Suns want to keep him.

Look, I get it. It makes you and others uncomfortable having to contemplate that he could actually choose to leave our team and you along with some others find comfort/ cope by being dismissive of that possibility and calling it an extremist perspective. When really it's not all that extremist at all. Unless your implying that no nba players have ever chosen to leave teams due to conflict with their teams front office, over contract disputes, etc.

https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/chicago-bulls/exclusive-dwyane-wade-shares-story-heats-disrespect-and-why-he-left-miami-bulls

“I thought it was an opportunity I would be there forever, but s--t happens,” Wade said in an exclusive interview with CSNChicago.com after the Bulls’ 112-80 win over the Orlando Magic on Monday night “And when s--t happens, you gotta be prepared to (move on). I found out very quickly that this is a business.”

Wade is a Chicago Bull in large part due to the business end of basketball, as he left Miami in free agency over the summer when negotiations with the franchise he never wanted to leave went sour.

https://www.ksat.com › 2019/05/27
'Uncle Dennis' reveals why Kawhi

Robertson told Yahoo! Sports that the three-time NBA All-Star requested to be traded from the San Antonio Spurs due to a degradation in trust between Leonard's camp and the franchise.May 26, 2019

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sportskeeda.com/amp/basketball/5-nba-superstars-forced-way-trade-request

Before and after the 2011-12 NBA season, Howard requested to be traded by the Orlando Magic. He had clashes with the team management and then-coach Stan Van Gundy.

The situation got tense between Leonard and the franchise as he allegedly felt the team did not handle his situation well enough. 

I get that these three examples are not free agency but trade requests. But the premise being that they left due to being unhappy with their teams front office, the way they were treated, role, lack of trust, etc. There are honestly many reasons why players leave their teams. But the root cause of many is due to being unhappy in their situations with that team. So it has and continues to absolutely happen!

He will be a restricted FA, so really cant leave even if he wants to, if the Suns want to keep him.

Did you forget that he can take the qualifying offer and then still leave? Or that IF his agents are actually clever and want to play hardball back, They can just as easily find a team that he'd be interested in going to ( there'll be many suitors too, make no mistake) and then have Ayton sign a 1+1 deal, Forcing the suns to match or just let him go. So at worst if he decides that he doesn't want to be here, then he can leave after next season either way? Not to mention if he goes to New York and can easily make any money back with endorsements, etc. So actually he does have a choice if he feels like leaving he will.

Players go through this all the time without it being catastrophic, a very recent example is John Collins. Players are negotiating contract extensions all the time and not getting the huge number they're looking for, why is Ayton the only one who's going to disproportionately freak out?

I actually hope that you're right on this man, Because if you are, Then he'll stay and we'll still be contenders.But if you're at all aware of Sarvers' history, NATURE, and nuance in these situations, even the sociopathic comments towards former players such as Amare ( " I can go out and find guys to replace you tommorow ") and Raja Bell ( " I could pay you but I won't " because I don't have to! ) in important contractual negotiations. Or what about when he dismantled a title contender over 5 million disparity in the Joe Johnson debacle. He has an uncanny knack for pushing players out the door and making them feel unvalued or unimportant. You know like signing other players and even bench players over prioritizing your franchises star #1 pick ever in franchise history that helped lead your team to the freaking nba finals. Those kind of things carry residual effects that can be disruptive and breed discontent. But I guess let's keep our fingers crossed on that one huh?...lol. And terming it as a " Freak out" by Ayton is your perception of the situation. But again, Seeing as how many nba players have left their teams or forced trades to other teams out of conflict of some kind, or being unhappy in their situations, it seems to be the norm rather than a freak out scenario. You either work to keep your star players happy, Or you lose them. Ayton choosing to leave due to feeling disrespected or undervalued is a individual decision towards his best interests if he doesn't feel Saver values him legitimately or that he can't prosper in this scenario with this ownership, that also doesn't constitute a " freak out" scenario. But rather one of realizing one's own sense of worth and seeking a situation that recognizes and supports his self valuation. Even more sosa business decision in that he'll feel.he has better opportunities for success in an environment that would actually value him and appreciate him more than what Savers' shown or has a well documented history of.

Nobody has "dismantled" anything unless Ayton wants to be atypically diva-like about this. Hes still under contract for this season with RFA coming up, where they will again have the opportunity to offer him a boat load of money or match an offer sheet of a boat load of money.

Again, we'll see how things play out with this situation. But everyone who thinks this won't be a legitimate distraction amongst the team, locker room and to our team chemistry is blanketing themselves in blissful ignorance. Our team runs our offense through Aytons' gravity to get good looks for our shooters. Aytons' also a key defensive player and game changer at times for our team. IF he's distracted or moreover focused on showcasing himself to establish value instead of taking a background complimentary role to Booker and Paul who have already secured their futures, How good will team chemistry be then as a result?

I also get that he's going to be a restricted free agent this season and I get that the suns can offer him a boatload of money. But if Saver wasn't willing to value him enough to give him a full max currently, What in the world makes you think he'll do it after giving Shamet a bigger contract than expected along with also having Bridges deal, Shamets, and both Cams' and Smith's options to see to as well? Whether or not people accept this, There'll be a number of teams now strategizing to be able to offer Ayton the max! Again, at worst if he takes the qualifying offer or forces the suns to match an offer sheet ( could be a max amount beyond the 16 million qualifying offer by the way) from a team on a 1+1, HE DOES HAVE A CHOICE.

At worst he'd maybe lose around 20 million on a qualifying offer. But could easily make that up with a new team with structured incentives. Or even more so if he goes out and signs a 1+1 max offer sheet and becomes a free agent next yr. It all depends upon what his agents as well as he chooses to do. But he's not losing such a life changing amount of money to consider how Saver basically told him he doesn't value him enough to pay him along with everyone else who already got paid. Again, that stings even deeper after Ayton took a back seat offensively for the team to an anchor our defense. And help carry us to the finals, only to be told that he's not worth the money to the suns!!! Some things outweigh money in these matters.

Cmon man..."He'll want retribution for disrespecting him in terms of value amongst his peers!" is straight out of your post and you're surprised at my response? Its extreme hyperbole at the very least lol

You may see it has extreme hyperbole depending upon how you measure or scale retribution situationally! It's subjective, So what you infer to be extreme and hyperbole may not be depending upon the situation and how he views fair karma or leveling the playing field, getting even or making his point in general. In not knowing what he considers making his point and or getting even (individual perception) you can't accurately determine if his view of retribution is in fact extreme or hyperbolic at all. And to the context of him leaving out of contempt or in seeking retribution or karmic balance for being wronged in his perspective, His choosing to leave in free agency may not be viewed by most as being extreme or hyperbolic at all as again many instances of players leaving their teams by forced trade or other means ( free agency) are not uncommon. Especially in a climate wherein players have more control and can dictate their destinations. And since many players have/ are still leaving their teams over unhappy situations, it's not really hyperbolic now is it.

[bwgood77]

I don't think he'll "act up" per se, but I do think he'll be looking for his numbers more than previous. Maybe this will make him attack the hoop more relentlessly. Certainly not a bad thing. I'm sure Detroit, NYK or Minnesota will love the new angry Ayton.

Well they will have to trade for him or wait for a few more years but sure eventually, but I don't see him leaving unless he doesn't get the max but he plays like that suns will give it to him.

They'd only have to wait 2 years. This one and after he signs the QO, next year. I expect it won't come to that $arver will trade him before that

You think he will trade him this season after a championship season? If we make a deep playoff run again and they do a S&T or something, that's not a good thing either. Either of those things would likely piss off the team. Now if you could get Towns (which would only be possible next summer unless you include a bunch of players), then Booker would be happy. Will be interesting to see how the Wolves do, whether Towns stays healthy and how happy he is.

I don't particularly think Ayton would want to go to Minnesota though for a little more money. I think he wants to stay with the Suns. I don't think he really wants to leave, so when push comes to shove it will be interesting. If he leaves purely for the money (which is more of a respect thing), I think he will regret it because most job situations are not ideal and money suddenly matters a lot less.

[bwgood77]

Look ill be honest I was always one of those who thought we should have drafted Luka and was frustrated with Ayton's inconsistency. That being said I think how he preformed and improved in the playoffs showed he is worth the max. Also if you're going to draft someone at 1 overall and they're a key contributer in a Finals run I just don't see how you don't pay them the max.

Also I think the issue for most is Sarver has not earned the benefit of the doubt and his history of cost saving measures have ruined the Suns chances in the past

Yeah, tell your boss you want maximum pay because you were just serviceable for 90% of the year and then that last 10% you really turned it on.

Nobody questioned maxing Booker because the kid put it all out on the court every game. Bridges puts it out too. No question he deserved every dollar and probably should have gotten more. Mister Tall & Athletic can hardly bring it but 70% of the games and then demands max pay over five years. I shouldn't have expected anything less from the knucklehead who got suspended 25 games.

I don't know about Book...I know most don't care about defense but he didn't bother even trying on that side 95% of the time until this past year. Maybe he tried like 15-20% of the time in 19-20. But not before the extension. It's just that he was the only bright spot on the team after those bad years.

If Ayton was the only decent young guy on the team then, he would have gotten the max. If you are actually talking about playing both sides of the ball, he puts in as much effort in his 2nd and 3rd years as Book did and improved dramatically on the side everyone thought he needed big improvements on coming out of the draft.

It's not surprising given it's you, but it is surprising in general for someone who WAS worried about him and his defense and REALLY wanted Luka, to not be pretty ecstatic about how big of strides he has made defensively. I couldn't really ask for more.

I know many just look for something to complain about, like "he needs 2 more free throws a game" or something, but his biggest issue by a long shot coming in was defense. That was going to make or break him. He will very likely increase his trips to the line as time goes on and he becomes more of a focal point of the offense and continues to get used to playing against the savvy vets.

But if your C helps you get to the 2nd best record in the league (by one game) because he focused on the little things like contesting shots, switching on D, setting screens to get Book and CP3 their buckets, and didn't care about his PPG like many players do, and then he switches it up a big notch in the playoffs like many of the stars do, it's probably worth paying the guy. He doesn't care if he has to do the little things and didn't get more touches to increase his PPG. Many guys looking at extensions would have wanted to increase their PPG and wouldn't care about those little things (that Sarver certainly misses since many seem to) but Ayton got went from 15 shots per game to 10 shots per game as CP3 took more shots than Rubio, and not only did Ayton not complain like many do (John Collins, Porzingis for a couple examples), he said he is just going to focus on being the defensive anchor for now, and that's exactly what he did.

But instead of looking at the little things, people whine if he has an occasional 10 pt game or 7 pt game, even though his scoring efficiency is sky high and he is among league leaders in rebounds. All players have off games.

[Slim Charless]

I just hope Sarver didn't say "Go out and prove you are a max player this year and we'll talk" and players encourage him all year to "show them you are worth that max" (they probably won't want to broach the subject though) and then he completely dominates and balls out and everyone, even someone like bigfoot thinks he's worth the max and Sarver STILL says "nope, it wasn't enough".

It's 100% apparent Ayton was not max-worthy over his first two seasons of play. Contrast that with Doncic and Trae Young who were obviously max-worthy after their first two years. Both have been all-stars and the number 1 guy taking their teams to the playoffs.

Ayton on the other hand has shown up somewhat out of shape and gets a 25 game suspension during that time. Then he self-admits that he and CP3 banged heads a lot during the first part of the season. There are repeated reports this past season that Ayton gets yelled at by Monty, CP3, and Booker in the huddle more than any other player. Not unexpected, DA over the course of this past season still is Houdini-like over stretches of games.

I find that him demanding nothing less than a 5-year max pretty damn disgusting. His IQ (financial and bb) must be lacking because a 3 or 4-year max would have been worth way more money except under one condition. That would be if Ayton was on an all-NBA team, DYOP, or league MVP this coming season. He should have been thinking about being more serious his first few years instead of waiting until the playoffs of his third.

As far as I'm concerned he's made his bed.

I don't disagree with a lot of that. I'm just saying I hope Sarver didn't tell him to prove it this season, watch him go to so, and then STILL balk at a max next summer.

He did say Monty and CP3 held him accountable. Demanded a lot, etc. I don't remember this "banging heads" thing you speak of. Ayton listens. Doesn't mean he didn't frustrate a vet like Paul as a 3rd year big learning...but CP3 also gave him his due talking about how he was the most important guy for them in the playoffs and he's gonna get paid and all that.

Personally I don't think he's quite worth the max, but if they were not far apart and would rather give him the max than lose him then I think they should have just gotten it done instead of creating potential discontent.

Of course I think Ayton is a lot better kid than you do and doubt this will create much discontent when it comes to his performance, attitude, etc, so that's fine. Would have been nice to get it behind us.

Now if they are really far apart on a deal, then waiting makes sense. But also it seems like most experts around the league felt he was worth a max deal. I know you and I have watched the NBA a long time so the cost seems absurd, but in this day and age, everyone is overpaid. A max for him wouldn't have been a bigger overpay than what Shamet got. We could do without Shamet..but not Ayton.

Yes, I agree Luka is obviously worth the max. He's the best player to come into the NBA since LeBron. And Trae you could argue too. It's when you get to Shai and Michael Porter that you get closer..and while they have a lot more offensive skills than Ayton, they don't have nearly the impact he does given his defensive presence and sheer gravity on offense.

Couldn't agree with you more. While Ayton's not Luka, few players are. We missed on that one but DA is still 1 hell of a basketball player. He's a MUCH better player than SGA and Porter. He deserves a max

[Revived]

I don't think he'll "act up" per se, but I do think he'll be looking for his numbers more than previous. Maybe this will make him attack the hoop more relentlessly. Certainly not a bad thing. I'm sure Detroit, NYK or Minnesota will love the new angry Ayton.

Well they will have to trade for him or wait for a few more years but sure eventually, but I don't see him leaving unless he doesn't get the max but he plays like that suns will give it to him.

They'd only have to wait 2 years. This one and after he signs the QO, next year. I expect it won't come to that $arver will trade him before that

He won’t take the QO man. Do you realize how much $$ he stands to lose by doing that? Especially if Suns are offering yr max ($140M?).

There’s a better chance of Robert Sarver somehow selling the team before next season ends than there is of Ayton taking the QO next summer.

[Revived]

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This deal would make sense to me if only like $2M is guaranteed in yr 3 and yr 4.

[bwgood77]

Well they will have to trade for him or wait for a few more years but sure eventually, but I don't see him leaving unless he doesn't get the max but he plays like that suns will give it to him.

They'd only have to wait 2 years. This one and after he signs the QO, next year. I expect it won't come to that $arver will trade him before that

He won’t take the QO man. Do you realize how much $$ he stands to lose by doing that? Especially if Suns are offering yr max ($140M?).

There’s a better chance of Robert Sarver somehow selling the team before next season ends than there is of Ayton taking the QO next summer.

He doesn't stand to lose THAT much if he still gets a max the following year, since his QO is like $16 million (and we are only offering say, a starting salary of $25 million) but it's just another year where a significant injury could derail everything like it did Boogie. Boogie was set to make like $200 million when he tore his achilles.