Official Trade Thread - Part XLII

payitforward · Post #121 » by **payitforward** » Fri Oct 15, 2021 2:29 am

That's very well-reasoned, Prime, I must say. Convincing. Above all, I just don't see much motivation for Phoenix to move Bridges.

In a way, what's behind this might be a not-fully-recognized feeling that we've had 3 drafts in a row from which we somehow did not seem to get all that much -- when, OTOH, it seemed like there was opportunity to do much better. We'd like to reach back & have 1 or more young guys we don't have.

Of course, some or all of Rui, Deni, Cassius, Corey, & Isaiah might develop in ways that change how the picture looks. That is certainly true.

Yet, for the moment, it's hard to avoid the sense many of us have that, using exactly the same draft resources, we could have had Brandon Clarke, Keldon Johnson, Daniel Gafford (in the draft not by trade, so that we'd still have Troy Brown), Tyrese Haliburton, either Peyton Pritchard or Desmond Bane (at the cost of Bertans, it is true, but with the additional benefit of $16m extra cap space), Xavier Tillman, Paul Reed, Jalen Johnson or Jaden Springer, Miles McBride & Jared Butler -- a haul which, call me crazy, looks just a bit better somehow....

prime1time · Post #122 » by **prime1time** » Fri Oct 15, 2021 2:16 pm

payitforward wrote:That's very well-reasoned, Prime, I must say. Convincing. Above all, I just don't see much motivation for Phoenix to move Bridges.

In a way, what's behind this might be a not-fully-recognized feeling that we've had 3 drafts in a row from which we somehow did not seem to get all that much -- when, OTOH, it seemed like there was opportunity to do much better. We'd like to reach back & have 1 or more young guys we don't have.

Of course, some or all of Rui, Deni, Cassius, Corey, & Isaiah might develop in ways that change how the picture looks. That is certainly true.

Yet, for the moment, it's hard to avoid the sense many of us have that, using exactly the same draft resources, we could have had Brandon Clarke, Keldon Johnson, Daniel Gafford (in the draft not by trade, so that we'd still have Troy Brown), Tyrese Haliburton, either Peyton Pritchard or Desmond Bane (at the cost of Bertans, it is true, but with the additional benefit of $16m extra cap space), Xavier Tillman, Paul Reed, Jalen Johnson or Jaden Springer, Miles McBride & Jared Butler -- a haul which, call me crazy, looks just a bit better somehow....

In a perfect world Phoenix wouldn't, but I think when it comes to resigning both players we have to consider that they might be better off trading one. Ayton has made clear he wants the max. And Bridges name also has been thrown around with the max. Phoenix can't afford to pay both. I think the best outcome for Phoenix is to resign one and trade the other for a combination of picks and young players on rookie deals. That's where the Wizards come in. The Suns have already maxed Booker, they are paying Paul 30 million a year and now will have to pay Ayton and Bridges. Also, their owner is very cheap.

payitforward · Post #123 » by **payitforward** » Fri Oct 15, 2021 6:20 pm

Yeah, next year will be especially tough. But after that, CP3 will be gone.

Still, you may be right. But, I would move Ayton before I moved Mikal Bridges -- & (though few will agree, I'm sure) I'd move Booker before I moved either of those other 2 guys.

Be that as it may, they aren't going to give us a guy who will command the max in return for Deni. Or for Rui. Or for the two of them.

Post #124 » by **Ruzious** » Fri Oct 15, 2021 6:58 pm

I've always been a big fan of Mikal Bridges, but I can't imagine he'll get paid as much as Ayton will. Bridges is very good at what he does, but he's a role player who's reliant on others to set him up. And he doesn't exactly fill up the box-score. He'll disappear offensively and doesn't hit the boards well. Players like that usually don't get paid the big bucks.

NYG · Post #125 » by **NYG** » Sat Oct 16, 2021 12:44 am

payitforward wrote:What's it got to do with giving up on Kuzma?

Hey, NYG -- let me turn it around on you, ok? Since you seem to want Kuzma, what would you offer? I.e. Aminu plus what else would seem to right to you?

Since we can't actually make any trades (darn it!), please try to give a fair response. I.e. not "how cheap can I go," but what you think might actually work in the real world. I'll be interested to get a sense of that.

My idea is Knox (175% + $100K) for Aminu

Aminu, '22 Knicks 2nd and '23 Pistons 2nd for Kuzma?

payitforward · Post #126 » by **payitforward** » Sun Oct 17, 2021 12:10 am

NYG wrote:
payitforward wrote:...Hey, NYG -- ...you seem to want Kuzma, what would you offer? I.e. Aminu plus what else would seem right to you?

My idea is Knox (175% + $100K) for Aminu

Aminu, '22 Knicks 2nd and '23 Pistons 2nd for Kuzma?

I don't exactly follow your first sentence -- Aminu is on the Spurs. You want to trade Knox to SA for Aminu, then send Aminu & picks to us for Kuzma? Is that it?

Or...?

prime1time · Post #127 » by **prime1time** » Sun Oct 17, 2021 7:18 pm

Mikal Bridges signed for 4 years 90 million. They’ll have money to sign Ayton. Will be interesting to see the contract he gets.

NYG · Post #128 » by **NYG** » Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:19 am

payitforward wrote:
NYG wrote:
payitforward wrote:...Hey, NYG -- ...you seem to want Kuzma, what would you offer? I.e. Aminu plus what else would seem right to you?

My idea is Knox (175% + $100K) for Aminu

Aminu, '22 Knicks 2nd and '23 Pistons 2nd for Kuzma?

I don't exactly follow your first sentence -- Aminu is on the Spurs. You want to trade Knox to SA for Aminu, then send Aminu & picks to us for Kuzma? Is that it?

Or...?

Yeah simply for cap logistics.

payitforward · Post #129 » by **payitforward** » Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:01 am

Well, obviously, "& picks" can mean many things.

You are proposing '22 & '23 R2 picks. I presume that you think the Knicks R2 pick next year will be a low one, right? I.e. the team is clearly on the rise -- your 41-31 record last year was the equivalent of a 47 win season in a normal year, & I imagine you think you are likely to improve on that this year (I do too, btw).

That might yield a R2 pick right around #50, which -- in fairness -- isn't much. OTOH, Detroit's '23 R2 pick, while harder to predict this far in advance, does seem likely to be somewhere in the 30's. Then again, its value is a bit discounted by being 2 years off (i.e. anyone would prefer the #35 pick next year to the #35 pick in 2 years).

Given that Aminu has almost no trade value at this point in his career, does that really seem enough for us to get in return for Kyle Kuzma -- a R1 pick who has worked out pretty well so far & is still in the first third of his career?

Let me put it slightly differently: if you had Kuzma, would you take Aminu & those 2 picks for him? Nah... I didn't think so.

Again, we can't actually make trades here, so here's a "theoretical question," I guess you'd call it: what do you think is the best deal our GM could get for Kyle Kuzma, shopping him around the league? I don't mean from you guys in this case....

TBH, I doubt he's going anywhere, but now you've got me curious about what the guy might actually be worth in a equitable trade -- what do you think?

WallToWall · Post #130 » by **WallToWall** » Tue Oct 19, 2021 6:54 pm

As impactful as Simmons can be, after his latest clown act, and the 76ers response, his trade value surely is tanking. At some point, he becomes a liability for the 76ers, and their GMs asking price will be much reduced. It’s a hard sell to say that Simmons’ behavior will not have this sort of behavior wherever he goes.
I still would want him on the Wizards, but not anywhere near the cost of the current asking price.

J-Ves · Post #131 » by **J-Ves** » Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:47 pm

WallToWall wrote:As impactful as Simmons can be, after his latest clown act, and the 76ers response, his trade value surely is tanking. At some point, he becomes a liability for the 76ers, and their GMs asking price will be much reduced. It’s a hard sell to say that Simmons’ behavior will not have this sort of behavior wherever he goes.
I still would want him on the Wizards, but not anywhere near the cost of the current asking price.

The 6ers front office is going to be stubborn about this so I wouldn’t expect him to be on the move any time soon. Ultimately you are right though and he will be delt for pennies on the dollar. I hope the Wiz are in the mix when they do despite how much of a headache he can be.

payitforward · Post #132 » by **payitforward** » Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:19 pm

I'm trying to understand, what is "his latest clown act?"

edit... Wait -- this must be it:

DCZards wrote:[Simmons got kicked out of practice and suspended for refusing River's request that he participate in defensive drills.....

prime1time · Post #133 » by **prime1time** » Wed Oct 20, 2021 5:28 am

What do people think about Marvin Bagley? I know we have a lot of forwards, but most of them are tweeners. Bagley is a real 4.

payitforward · Post #134 » by **payitforward** » Wed Oct 20, 2021 12:48 pm

In 3000 NBA minutes, Bagley has not been a good player & has not improved either. In fact, his rookie year was his best so far -- & he mostly played Center that season. IOW, I'm not sure he's "a real 4."

Hard pass.

Chocolate City Jordanaire · Post #135 » by **Chocolate City Jordanaire** » Wed Oct 20, 2021 12:54 pm

payitforward wrote:That's very well-reasoned, Prime, I must say. Convincing. Above all, I just don't see much motivation for Phoenix to move Bridges.

In a way, what's behind this might be a not-fully-recognized feeling that we've had 3 drafts in a row from which we somehow did not seem to get all that much -- when, OTOH, it seemed like there was opportunity to do much better. We'd like to reach back & have 1 or more young guys we don't have.

Of course, some or all of Rui, Deni, Cassius, Corey, & Isaiah might develop in ways that change how the picture looks. That is certainly true.

Yet, for the moment, it's hard to avoid the sense many of us have that, using exactly the same draft resources, we could have had Brandon Clarke, Keldon Johnson, Daniel Gafford (in the draft not by trade, so that we'd still have Troy Brown), Tyrese Haliburton, either Peyton Pritchard or Desmond Bane (at the cost of Bertans, it is true, but with the additional benefit of $16m extra cap space), Xavier Tillman, Paul Reed, Jalen Johnson or Jaden Springer, Miles McBride & Jared Butler -- a haul which, call me crazy, looks just a bit better somehow....

Because you asked us o I will say you are crazy, payitforward!

I agree with you we could have done a lot better. The player list that you provide is predominately full of guys better than what we got. Maybe in the future they can be acquired somehow as the Duds get weeded out of this roster.

Sent from my SM-T227U using RealGM mobile app

Post #136 » by **penbeast0** » Wed Oct 20, 2021 2:00 pm

prime1time wrote:What do people think about Marvin Bagley? I know we have a lot of forwards, but most of them are tweeners. Bagley is a real 4.

I wouldn't want him to take any of Montrezl's minutes. I see Harrell as a guy who has been great offensively in limited minutes ever since joining the league where Bagley has gotten the starter chances and not produced. Give me the producer (and then convince him he can start if he plays better defense).

J-Ves · Post #137 » by **J-Ves** » Thu Oct 21, 2021 3:32 am

Going to need to find a playmaker I think. Neto and Holiday don't really have the playmaking chops to get it done in the second unit and even Dinwiddie isn't a pure PG. We know Beal's handles anit it either

WallToWall · Post #138 » by **WallToWall** » Thu Oct 21, 2021 5:22 am

J-Ves wrote:Going to need to find a playmaker I think. Neto and Holiday don't really have the playmaking chops to get it done in the second unit and even Dinwiddie isn't a pure PG. We know Beal's handles anit it either

This. Who do we have who can fight through double teams? Who do we trust to handle the rock? Dinwiddie didnt prove that he was that guy in the first game of the season?

Post #139 » by **Ruzious** » Thu Oct 21, 2021 11:28 am

payitforward wrote:In 3000 NBA minutes, Bagley has not been a good player & has not improved either. In fact, his rookie year was his best so far -- & he mostly played Center that season. IOW, I'm not sure he's "a real 4."

Hard pass.

Yeah, I think those are the problems. I liked him a lot coming out of Duke, but he's shown no progress and seems to be a negative tweener between the 4 and 5. And for the most part, the Duke centers seem to have an awful time trying to play defense in the NBA - it's no surprise he's not good defensively, but I thought he'd be a much more efficient scorer than he's been, and I thought he'd be a guy you could run the offense through - but that hasn't been the case. So hard pass is also what I'd say.

Post #140 » by **Ruzious** » Thu Oct 21, 2021 11:38 am

WallToWall wrote:
J-Ves wrote:Going to need to find a playmaker I think. Neto and Holiday don't really have the playmaking chops to get it done in the second unit and even Dinwiddie isn't a pure PG. We know Beal's handles anit it either

This. Who do we have who can fight through double teams? Who do we trust to handle the rock? Dinwiddie didnt prove that he was that guy in the first game of the season?

And they used Holiday at the 2 - which was the criticism for how he was used at Indiana last season. He missed all 4 of his shots and had zero assists and 3 to's. It's really hard for me to understand what Tommy was thinking in acquiring him to be the backup 2.