Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc 4.0

[parsnips33]

What are the Kings doing?

Read on Twitter

This is wild

Am I wrong in thinking this wouldn't happen to another team besides the Kings? Like would an agent feel empowered to publicly trash a franchise like say Miami or LA like this? Does this only occur with a team like Sacramento that has very little leverage in the agency/team dynamic? Or is this just indicative of a broader Klutch-led change in how agencies operate and has less to do with the Kings specifically?

[blind prophet]

What are the Kings doing?

Read on Twitter

This is wild

Am I wrong in thinking this wouldn't happen to another team besides the Kings? Like would an agent feel empowered to publicly trash a franchise like say Miami or LA like this? Does this only occur with a team like Sacramento that has very little leverage in the agency/team dynamic? Or is this just indicative of a broader Klutch-led change in how agencies operate and has less to do with the Kings specifically?

Was a draft blunder.

He had negative value last year, still does.

Why would anyone offer anything positive for him?

Why would the Kings pay someone to take him.

I was annoyed last year when they picked up his option.

[parsnips33]

What are the Kings doing?

Read on Twitter

This is wild

Am I wrong in thinking this wouldn't happen to another team besides the Kings? Like would an agent feel empowered to publicly trash a franchise like say Miami or LA like this? Does this only occur with a team like Sacramento that has very little leverage in the agency/team dynamic? Or is this just indicative of a broader Klutch-led change in how agencies operate and has less to do with the Kings specifically?

Was a draft blunder.

He had negative value last year, still does.

Why would anyone offer anything positive for him?

Why would the Kings pay someone to take him.

I was annoyed last year when they picked up his option.

Yeah I don't think Kings should be expected to give up on a high lottery pick for nothing just cause his agent asked.

I'm more floored by the agent coming out and making a statement like this publicly, seems like a big departure from norms

[blind prophet]

This is wild

Am I wrong in thinking this wouldn't happen to another team besides the Kings? Like would an agent feel empowered to publicly trash a franchise like say Miami or LA like this? Does this only occur with a team like Sacramento that has very little leverage in the agency/team dynamic? Or is this just indicative of a broader Klutch-led change in how agencies operate and has less to do with the Kings specifically?

Was a draft blunder.

He had negative value last year, still does.

Why would anyone offer anything positive for him?

Why would the Kings pay someone to take him.

I was annoyed last year when they picked up his option.

Yeah I don't think Kings should be expected to give up on a high lottery pick for nothing just cause his agent asked.

I'm more floored by the agent coming out and making a statement like this publicly, seems like a big departure from norms

Well what do you do if you have negative value but want to be traded?

Not only that you need to play for your next contract and the team is telling you to sit down.

Be annoying or make the organization trade you any way you can I guess.

[Devilanche]

OKC would still trade for him for some smallish value .

Is there a team out there that could do with favors instead and send expiring to kings ?

[Resistance]

This Bagley stuff reminds of Courtney Lee a while back when he might have neutral value at best when he was with the Knicks. Instead of giving him away for expiring or shorter duration money, some expected to trade him for some modest positive value.
Eventually he drifted into being blah money and the the Knicks pushed him off to Dallas.

If the Knicks had washed their hands of him sooner and worked in & out of small deals of eating salary for compensation, they could have netted some modest compensation equal to or better than what was expected for Courtney Lee directly. It takes more work & hustle from a FO to do that type of wheeling and dealing, but sometimes it is best to accept reality and just move on from a player rather than keep hoping a chump GM will come along and give the asking price for a player that has no future with your team.

the difference is the Knicks signed a 31-year-old Courtney Lee to a 4-year deal and he slowly declined... as 30-something wings tend to do.

The Kings drafted a 19-year-old with the 2nd overall pick who had a world of upside. I don't blame them for a minute holding onto him, hoping he could fulfill some potential.

Vlade made the Bagley pick and the general Rule of Thumb that I have believed in is that a new FO Exec needs to get rid of the mistakes the previous FO made ASAP. If Randaive didn't allow McNair to dump Bagley ASAP, then that is Ranadive's fault for meddling.

[Resistance]

Knicks ended up making a hell of a Courtney Lee deal in the end fwiw.

Yes, but a bit more by luck of the Porzingis situation blowing up rather than a well crafted strategy by the NYK FO focused on doing something more modest with Lee.

[HartfordWhalers]

OKC would still trade for him for some smallish value .

Is there a team out there that could do with favors instead and send expiring to kings ?

If so, Utah really blew it.

[BoogieTime]

There never has been an adequate trade on the table that outweighed his potential

He isnt good enough to make the rotation now, but still has the natural talent to be something in the future.

Why dump him for late 2nds and no names?

Last trade deadline there wasn't value for his potential upside

The value on the table for him has never met the moment

[Devilanche]

OKC would still trade for him for some smallish value .

Is there a team out there that could do with favors instead and send expiring to kings ?

If so, Utah really blew it.

To be fair , OKC took him into cap and Utah wanted to clear his full salary .

There’s no obvious team that can give expiring for him also saying from an OKC fan perspective , but I’m no GM.

[Texas Chuck]

There never has been an adequate trade on the table that outweighed his potential

He isnt good enough to make the rotation now, but still has the natural talent to be something in the future.

Why dump him for late 2nds and no names?

Last trade deadline there wasn't value for his potential upside

The value on the table for him has never met the moment

I mean if you could get 2nds, that seems like something, no? If you aren't going to put in him the rotation and its year 4 I think we need to realize that "potential" is now meaningless. Sure he could eventually figure it out, but he's not going to with the Kings so if you could get 2nds, get them.

Note: I do not think you could get 2nds.

[BoogieTime]

There never has been an adequate trade on the table that outweighed his potential

He isnt good enough to make the rotation now, but still has the natural talent to be something in the future.

Why dump him for late 2nds and no names?

Last trade deadline there wasn't value for his potential upside

The value on the table for him has never met the moment

I mean if you could get 2nds, that seems like something, no? If you aren't going to put in him the rotation and its year 4 I think we need to realize that "potential" is now meaningless. Sure he could eventually figure it out, but he's not going to with the Kings so if you could get 2nds, get them.

Note: I do not think you could get 2nds.

I thought they literally tried to dump him last year to free money for Holmes, before they knew they could retain Holmes cheaply

Thats what was reported

[Resistance]

There never has been an adequate trade on the table that outweighed his potential

He isnt good enough to make the rotation now, but still has the natural talent to be something in the future.

Why dump him for late 2nds and no names?

Last trade deadline there wasn't value for his potential upside

The value on the table for him has never met the moment

Then what is the plan for next summer when he needs a new contract? If he is still in developmental mode next season (2022-23) rather than at a minimum the first Big off the bench, then what kind of contract is he going to be offered by any team?

[BoogieTime]

There never has been an adequate trade on the table that outweighed his potential

He isnt good enough to make the rotation now, but still has the natural talent to be something in the future.

Why dump him for late 2nds and no names?

Last trade deadline there wasn't value for his potential upside

The value on the table for him has never met the moment

Then what is the plan for next summer when he needs a new contract? If he is still in developmental mode next season (2022-23) rather than at a minimum the first Big off the bench, then what kind of contract is he going to be offered by any team?

Even now, do you want stiffs and 2nd round picks, or a 22 year old who once dominated college and was thought of highly?

One has the 1/10 chance of working

The other have dead ends

As much as I dislike him on/off the floor, someone next year is going to get him cheaply, and the Kings have his rights

This goes into the locker room dynamic though. Do you keep a player cheaply who is toxic?

[Domejandro]

There never has been an adequate trade on the table that outweighed his potential

He isnt good enough to make the rotation now, but still has the natural talent to be something in the future.

Why dump him for late 2nds and no names?

Last trade deadline there wasn't value for his potential upside

The value on the table for him has never met the moment

Then what is the plan for next summer when he needs a new contract? If he is still in developmental mode next season (2022-23) rather than at a minimum the first Big off the bench, then what kind of contract is he going to be offered by any team?

Even now, do you want stiffs and 2nd round picks, or a 22 year old who once dominated college and was thought of highly?

One has the 1/10 chance of working

The other have dead ends

As much as I dislike him on/off the floor, someone next year is going to get him cheaply, and the Kings have his rights

This goes into the locker room dynamic though. Do you keep a player cheaply who is toxic?

1/10 seems arbitrary and high, given that Marvin Bagley is in his fourth season and the team that invested a second overall pick into him has determined that he is not good enough to be in their rotation (despite the team not being a Playoff lock).

[BoogieTime]

Then what is the plan for next summer when he needs a new contract? If he is still in developmental mode next season (2022-23) rather than at a minimum the first Big off the bench, then what kind of contract is he going to be offered by any team?

Even now, do you want stiffs and 2nd round picks, or a 22 year old who once dominated college and was thought of highly?

One has the 1/10 chance of working

The other have dead ends

As much as I dislike him on/off the floor, someone next year is going to get him cheaply, and the Kings have his rights

This goes into the locker room dynamic though. Do you keep a player cheaply who is toxic?

1/10 seems arbitrary and high, given that Marvin Bagley is in his fourth season and the team that invested a second overall pick into him has determined that he is not good enough to be in their rotation (despite the team not being a Playoff lock).

It is arbitrary, and you seem to be picking at details

1/10 seemed low as is, but if you want to call it 1/18 the point would remain

one is a lottery ticket, with the off chance of turning out great

the others are just 1 dollar payouts

[Resistance]

There never has been an adequate trade on the table that outweighed his potential

He isnt good enough to make the rotation now, but still has the natural talent to be something in the future.

Why dump him for late 2nds and no names?

Last trade deadline there wasn't value for his potential upside

The value on the table for him has never met the moment

Then what is the plan for next summer when he needs a new contract? If he is still in developmental mode next season (2022-23) rather than at a minimum the first Big off the bench, then what kind of contract is he going to be offered by any team?

Even now, do you want stiffs and 2nd round picks, or a 22 year old who once dominated college and was thought of highly?

One has the 1/10 chance of working

The other have dead ends

As much as I dislike him on/off the floor, someone next year is going to get him cheaply, and the Kings have his rights

This goes into the locker room dynamic though. Do you keep a player cheaply who is toxic?

There is a pipeline of talent that never stops from colleges and overseas. If he is still going to be a project PF/Center or Center/PF after four seasons, then I would expect Sacramento to strongly consider bringing in another player or two as projects at PF/Center or Center/PF. Will they have the potential upside of Bagley? Maybe not, but potential eventually needs to be converted to something actual that can be quantified. Eventually McNair is going to need to move the team forward to keep his job.

Being nice and keeping Bagley on the roster because of potential isn't what is going to help McNair keep is job. Moving the team forward is what will help McNair keep his job.

[Domejandro]

Even now, do you want stiffs and 2nd round picks, or a 22 year old who once dominated college and was thought of highly?

One has the 1/10 chance of working

The other have dead ends

As much as I dislike him on/off the floor, someone next year is going to get him cheaply, and the Kings have his rights

This goes into the locker room dynamic though. Do you keep a player cheaply who is toxic?

1/10 seems arbitrary and high, given that Marvin Bagley is in his fourth season and the team that invested a second overall pick into him has determined that he is not good enough to be in their rotation (despite the team not being a Playoff lock).

It is arbitrary, and you seem to be picking at details

1/10 seemed low as is, but if you want to call it 1/18 the point would remain

one is a lottery ticket, with the off chance of turning out great

the others are just 1 dollar payouts

My point is that to the Sacramento Kings, they have clearly determined that Marvin Bagley is no longer worth investing any playing time into. Because of this, it is more arguable that the Sacramento Kings would see second round draft picks as better "lottery tickets" than Marvin Bagley. Really not sure why a known entity that the team has determined is not worth investing into is being cast as the lottery ticket with great potential, while a completely unknown draft pick is considered to be the one dollar payout.

It just doesn't make sense, the hypothetical is flipped.

[BoogieTime]

1/10 seems arbitrary and high, given that Marvin Bagley is in his fourth season and the team that invested a second overall pick into him has determined that he is not good enough to be in their rotation (despite the team not being a Playoff lock).

It is arbitrary, and you seem to be picking at details

1/10 seemed low as is, but if you want to call it 1/18 the point would remain

one is a lottery ticket, with the off chance of turning out great

the others are just 1 dollar payouts

My point is that to the Sacramento Kings, they have clearly determined that Marvin Bagley is no longer worth investing any playing time into. Because of this, it is more arguable that the Sacramento Kings would see second round draft picks as better "lottery tickets" than Marvin Bagley. Really not sure why a known entity that the team has determined is not worth investing into is being cast as the lottery ticket with great potential, while a completely unknown draft pick is considered to be the one dollar payout.

It just doesn't make sense, the hypothetical is flipped.

I mean, I see the point, but the Kings are fighting for the play in, and need all hands on deck, and Thompson/Len have looked capable in preseason and may deserve to play

I think the kings aren't "investing playing time" in anyone, Bagley or 2nd round picks. Who deserves to play will play.

Problem is Bagley is a round of clay that hasn't developed yet, and is a negative when he takes the court. Doesn't mea at 22 the clay still cant be rounded.

But maybe you are right about the 2nds as opposed to him

[rpa]

they have clearly determined that Marvin Bagley is no longer worth investing any playing time into.

Have they, though? Even his agent plainly said "opening night rotation" and Bagley (unsurprising to anyone who's followed him for more than a few games for the last 3 years) had to sit out preseason games due to knee soreness.