Training camp 2021

tal57 · Post #101 » by **tal57** » Sat Oct 16, 2021 8:13 am

Amen.
Now we have our answer too with regards to the 15th spot. It remains empty. If Mulder is not picked up by someone (doubtful), or decides to paly oversees, I see him back taking the second 2 way spot.

I guess smart move to keep the 15th spot open for several reasons. A possibility for a pickup once things settle down and fully evaluated, with everyone back at some points. As much as I am worried about the backup point (and a big for that matter), I guess at least backup PG can probably be ran by committee with the GS play style. Also I don't think the guys fighting for that spot were anywhere near bringing anything worthy of the kind of money it would cost the team with the repeater cost attached to it.

I guess with the team just assembled with bunch of new pieces does need evaluation, and flexibility with the unoccupied roster spot is just that and more valuable at this point.

The-Power · Post #102 » by **The-Power** » Sat Oct 16, 2021 10:02 am

TB wrote:A rare 14 man roster where I like everyone and am excited for anyone to get minutes.

That can't be. This fanbase needs to be fed someone to rip apart or they're going to look for someone themselves.

So, quick poll: if it stays like this, who's going to be this year's Oubre/Wanamaker? Wiseman?

EvanZ · Post #103 » by **EvanZ** » Sat Oct 16, 2021 2:32 pm

Wiseman, if he plays, should be like the 12-13th man on this team, if we're being honest.

ChuckDurn · Post #104 » by **ChuckDurn** » Sat Oct 16, 2021 3:30 pm

tal57 wrote:Amen.
Now we have our answer too with regards to the 15th spot. It remains empty. If Mulder is not picked up by someone (doubtful), or decides to paly oversees, I see him back taking the second 2 way spot.

I guess smart move to keep the 15th spot open for several reasons. A possibility for a pickup once things settle down and fully evaluated, with everyone back at some points. As much as I am worried about the backup point (and a big for that matter), I guess at least backup PG can probably be ran by committee with the GS play style. Also I don't think the guys fighting for that spot were anywhere near bringing anything worthy of the kind of money it would cost the team with the repeater cost attached to it.

I guess with the team just assembled with bunch of new pieces does need evaluation, and flexibility with the unoccupied roster spot is just that and more valuable at this point.

A couple of comments…..

With other teams also now making their roster cut-downs, I wouldn’t be shocked to see us take another team’s “cast-off” into our 15th spot or the second 2-way. It may be sooner rather than later (i.e. even before the start of the regular season).

I’m not worried about the back-up point guard spot, particularly since we don’t play an old-fashioned “point guard is the primary ball-handler and creator” offense. Poole will handle the majority of the minutes where Curry is off the court, Iguodala will clearly also be doing a lot of facilitation when on-the-court, and I think Chiozza is going to get more time than people expect (particularly before Klay returns, simply because once Klay is back, Poole will be coming off the bench and his “creator” role will be more complete).

The 2 roster needs that I see (to fill the 15th spot and 2-way) are:
1. Center with size (to reduce possibility of being overwhelmed physically against teams with big front lines); this need obviously is more acute while Wiseman is completely out; and
2. Defensive hawk able to guard difficult opposing PG’s

ChuckDurn · Post #105 » by **ChuckDurn** » Sat Oct 16, 2021 3:45 pm

TB wrote:Looks like an 11 man rotation for now:

Steph / Iggy
Poole / Lee / JTA
Wiggins / Moody / JTA
Dray / Otto / JTA
Loon / Bjelica

Then you have Kuminga, Wiseman, Klay back at some point.

A rare 14 man roster where I like everyone and am excited for anyone to get minutes.

Then both of our 2-way guys (assuming Mulder gets the 2nd one) are players with solid NBA experience that I feel okay with getting real minutes as needed.

Let's just hope for a somewhat healthy season and we may have a lot of fun watching this team.

Because of so much cross-matching and positional versatility on this team, it almost makes sense to look at the roster in tiers….. for example, Poole will start at SG next to Curry, but be the main PG when Curry is off the court….. Iguodala will help to facilitate as a PG, but will guard wings…… Draymond and Bjelica both are really PF / C hybrids…… etc…… So here’s really how I look at it, rather than breaking it down by position.

Tier 1: full starters (responsibility and time on the court)
Curry / Wiggins / Draymond
+ Klay (when available)

Tier 2: fringe starter
Looney
+ Poole (elevated to Tier 1 before Klay gets back)

Tier 3: major bench piece
Porter + Bjelica + Lee
+ Iguodala (though he’ll be load-managed)
+ Wiseman (when healthy)

Tier 4: spot bench piece
JTA + Moody (who could rise if he develops and produces)

Tier 5: mop-up / development
Kuminga

I’d put Chiozza in Tier 4 as well, but didn’t include him directly since he’s on a 2-way. But I think he’ll definitely get some time, particularly early in the season.

(Note: this doesn’t mean that I think Moody is only the 13th best guy on the roster, as this might suggest, but I do think that with Poole, Lee, Wiggins, and Iguodala all being ahead of him in the rotation at the wing (and then Klay joining that group), he’s going to be getting spot minutes at first.)

The-Power · Post #106 » by **The-Power** » Sat Oct 16, 2021 5:10 pm

EvanZ wrote:Wiseman, if he plays, should be like the 12-13th man on this team, if we're being honest.

If he looks and plays like most last year, yes. If he shows up improved then absolutely not. And as much as the anti-Wiseman crowd likes to make such predictions, none of us knows exactly how he'll look like once he's back and told to play simple in limited minutes. Any prediction of where Wiseman stands at this point is just a wild guess. I'm not expecting much because he's still young, inexperienced and coming from a suboptimal off-season, but I'm also not pretending to know what Wiseman looks like on the court in a couple of weeks and months.

wco81 · Post #107 » by **wco81** » Sat Oct 16, 2021 9:01 pm

How much luxury tax savings not to carry a 15th for part of the season?

EvanZ · Post #108 » by **EvanZ** » Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:12 pm

The-Power wrote:
EvanZ wrote:Wiseman, if he plays, should be like the 12-13th man on this team, if we're being honest.

If he looks and plays like most last year, yes. If he shows up improved then absolutely not. And as much as the anti-Wiseman crowd likes to make such predictions, none of us knows exactly how he'll look like once he's back and told to play simple in limited minutes. Any prediction of where Wiseman stands at this point is just a wild guess. I'm not expecting much because he's still young, inexperienced and coming from a suboptimal off-season, but I'm also not pretending to know what Wiseman looks like on the court in a couple of weeks and months.

He should have to earn his minutes just like any player who hasn't proved himself yet. Do you disagree?

xdrta+ · Post #109 » by **xdrta+** » Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:42 pm

What does "earn his minutes" mean? Earn them how, in practice, in games, in the G league? How does he "earn his minutes?"

GSWFan1994 · Post #110 » by **GSWFan1994** » Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:37 pm

wco81 wrote:How much luxury tax savings not to carry a 15th for part of the season?

I'm guessing between 6/8 mi for the season.

Here's a brief article on how our tax bill is going to be astronomical.

EvanZ · Post #111 » by **EvanZ** » Wed Oct 20, 2021 5:47 pm

xdrta+ wrote:What does "earn his minutes" mean? Earn them how, in practice, in games, in the G league? How does he "earn his minutes?"

Yeah. You answered your own question. Moody played 5 minutes last night after a full SL, training camp, and pre-season.

How many minutes will James get when he comes back after having not played in 8 months?

xdrta+ · Post #112 » by **xdrta+** » Wed Oct 20, 2021 5:57 pm

EvanZ wrote:
xdrta+ wrote:What does "earn his minutes" mean? Earn them how, in practice, in games, in the G league? How does he "earn his minutes?"

Yeah. You answered your own question. Moody played 5 minutes last night after a full SL, training camp, and pre-season.

How many minutes will James get when he comes back after having not played in 8 months?

Well, you didn't answer it so I still don't know what you mean. And no one can tell what Wiseman will be like coming off injury, any more than Klay. "Earning his minutes" is just an empty phrase as shown by your inability to define it.

EvanZ · Post #113 » by **EvanZ** » Wed Oct 20, 2021 6:09 pm

xdrta+ wrote:
EvanZ wrote:
xdrta+ wrote:What does "earn his minutes" mean? Earn them how, in practice, in games, in the G league? How does he "earn his minutes?"

Yeah. You answered your own question. Moody played 5 minutes last night after a full SL, training camp, and pre-season.

How many minutes will James get when he comes back after having not played in 8 months?

Well, you didn't answer it so I still don't know what you mean. And no one can tell what Wiseman will be like coming off injury, any more than Klay. "Earning his minutes" is just an empty phrase as shown by your inability to define it.

I did answer it. You don't like the answer.

You don't like the idea that Wiseman has to earn his minutes. Everyone knows what that means. Don't play a fool.

EvanZ · Post #114 » by **EvanZ** » Wed Oct 20, 2021 6:14 pm

You literally should not be discussing the NBA if you don't understand what "earning minutes" means.

What's next "tell me what 'efficient' means". What is a "slam dunk"? LOL :lol:

xdrta+ · Post #115 » by **xdrta+** » Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:56 pm

EvanZ wrote:You literally should not be discussing the NBA if you don't understand what "earning minutes" means.

What's next "tell me what 'efficient' means". What is a "slam dunk"? LOL

You literally should not be using phrases you can't define. Empty, meaningless phrases at that.

Scoots1994 · Post #116 » by **Scoots1994** » Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:04 pm

I expect Wiseman to get a reasonable shot at 20-25 minutes as soon as he's ready to play, and have a reasonable chance to start.

That said, I also expect his role when he's on the floor to be much simplified from how they were using him last year.

He showed flashes of a really interesting game, let's hope he can put them together more consistently and earn even more time because it's always better when young guys earn the PT.

Scoots1994 · Post #117 » by **Scoots1994** » Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:07 pm

xdrta+ wrote:
EvanZ wrote:You literally should not be discussing the NBA if you don't understand what "earning minutes" means.

What's next "tell me what 'efficient' means". What is a "slam dunk"? LOL

You literally should not be using phrases you can't define. Empty, meaningless phrases at that.

Don't try to apply logic and reason to sports talk, where missing a FT means a player will be "trash" to someone online

EvanZ · Post #118 » by **EvanZ** » Thu Oct 21, 2021 1:49 pm

Scoots1994 wrote:I expect Wiseman to get a reasonable shot at 20-25 minutes as soon as he's ready to play, and have a reasonable chance to start.

That said, I also expect his role when he's on the floor to be much simplified from how they were using him last year.

He showed flashes of a really interesting game, let's hope he can put them together more consistently and earn even more time because it's always better when young guys earn the PT.

You don't even realize how ridiculous this sounds.

Scoots1994 · Post #119 » by **Scoots1994** » Thu Oct 21, 2021 4:25 pm

EvanZ wrote:
Scoots1994 wrote:I expect Wiseman to get a reasonable shot at 20-25 minutes as soon as he's ready to play, and have a reasonable chance to start.

That said, I also expect his role when he's on the floor to be much simplified from how they were using him last year.

He showed flashes of a really interesting game, let's hope he can put them together more consistently and earn even more time because it's always better when young guys earn the PT.

You don't even realize how ridiculous this sounds.

I assume you don't realize how ridiculous you sound.

Post #120 » by **FNQ** » Thu Oct 21, 2021 4:25 pm

Scoots1994 wrote:I expect Wiseman to get a reasonable shot at 20-25 minutes as soon as he's ready to play, and have a reasonable chance to start.

Then we aren't trying to win

That said, I also expect his role when he's on the floor to be much simplified from how they were using him last year.

Then we arent trying to develop him

He showed flashes of a really interesting game, let's hope he can put them together more consistently and earn even more time because it's always better when young guys earn the PT.

I agree, but nothing above that you said seems to line up with it. If we do want a fully developed Wiseman, that means you have to play to what he can do, and that involves a lot of offense. But he's so bad at it currently. Same with defense. And I maintain that he needs GL time to get comfortable with the ball / reading defenses, and then once thats in his toolbox he can apply it at the NBA level and concurrently learn-on-the-fly our defensive rotations. Because if the game slows down on offense for him, it seems more likely that it will slow down defensively as well.

But we're not going to get him there by teaching him to be McGee and then hoping his extremely raw offense shakes out at the NBA level only (people are so quick to forget how most HS players were stunted because they only could play in the NBA and half their game never developed).. if you want a fully functional Wiseman in the future, don't earmark him for any time this year at all, just develop. If we wanted a rebound/defense C, we could have gone that route for MLE type money or 2nd round picks. Don't kneecap what Wiseman could be for some minimal returns in what's effectively the 2nd half of his rookie season