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Moderators: bwgood77, Qwigglez, lilfishi22
Mulhollanddrive wrote:Jones and Sarver have played the Ayton negotations perfectly, we were either going to get him a team friendly deal or challenge him to show the world he's an All-Star. I'm looking forward to him playing even more now and am more confident now he will prove his full worth.
The one area of slight concern for me and this is purely speculative is that Sarver sees Landry Shamet as his next Goran Dragic. A cheap late blooming combo guard who he can promote from within to replace his HoF PG and get out of repeater tax. Sarver has said in the past he likes to work this way in business and the $11m salary and team option timing (coincides with Chris Paul's) just hints to me this is a live Sarver possibility.
bwgood77 wrote:Yeah, I don't know the exact reasoning of not doing an Ayton deal or why they handled it the way they did. I don't mind THAT much waiting if there is good reason BUT
it certainly wasn't handled perfectly. Not negotiating or communicating at all as mentioned by both parties in the Athletic doesn't sound perfect to me. Ayton seems to not have any reason why? Jones has always been a good communicator it seems, so it would have been nice to continue. Now if it was Sarver tying is hands and telling him what to do, not much he can do, and he can't blame Sarver in The Athletic, and WOJ did mention Sarver as not thinking he is worth it, so there is that.
But even if it is straight up telling him he hasn't played to max potential yet. Do it, and we'll see, or "we don't have the cap space to keep this finals run team together...you are an important piece and we will pay you similar to what Booker got, but we have a lot of important pieces. We don't want to minimize your value, but we don't want to lose an important piece too because you feel you are worth more than anyone else." I think communicating something like that might get through. The only problem is, you usually directly have to deal with the agents, so they could have requested a conversation with him.
Waylay13 wrote:bwgood77 wrote:Yeah, I don't know the exact reasoning of not doing an Ayton deal or why they handled it the way they did. I don't mind THAT much waiting if there is good reason BUT
it certainly wasn't handled perfectly. Not negotiating or communicating at all as mentioned by both parties in the Athletic doesn't sound perfect to me. Ayton seems to not have any reason why? Jones has always been a good communicator it seems, so it would have been nice to continue. Now if it was Sarver tying is hands and telling him what to do, not much he can do, and he can't blame Sarver in The Athletic, and WOJ did mention Sarver as not thinking he is worth it, so there is that.
But even if it is straight up telling him he hasn't played to max potential yet. Do it, and we'll see, or "we don't have the cap space to keep this finals run team together...you are an important piece and we will pay you similar to what Booker got, but we have a lot of important pieces. We don't want to minimize your value, but we don't want to lose an important piece too because you feel you are worth more than anyone else." I think communicating something like that might get through. The only problem is, you usually directly have to deal with the agents, so they could have requested a conversation with him.
you always start negotiations off at a high point for Ayton that is a 5 year max deal. Yet the Athletic article makes it clear that the Suns didnt put a single offer in front of Ayton. This isnt how you build a good culture of a team first or anything like that this is how you destroy team chemistry. This action with Ayton has completely destroyed any good will I had built up for the team from last year.
NapoleonII wrote:Mulhollanddrive wrote:Jones and Sarver have played the Ayton negotations perfectly, we were either going to get him a team friendly deal or challenge him to show the world he's an All-Star. I'm looking forward to him playing even more now and am more confident now he will prove his full worth.
The one area of slight concern for me and this is purely speculative is that Sarver sees Landry Shamet as his next Goran Dragic. A cheap late blooming combo guard who he can promote from within to replace his HoF PG and get out of repeater tax. Sarver has said in the past he likes to work this way in business and the $11m salary and team option timing (coincides with Chris Paul's) just hints to me this is a live Sarver possibility.
Lol, I'm sorry but this is bordering on sycophantic.
I'm waiting to see what Shamet can do in a Suns uni, and Suns brass is working on what the coaching staff have seen in practice, but Shamet hasn't done $%^& in this league or the playoffs. Ayton HAS.
We messed this up. Maybe not royally, not yet, but the potential is there for this mistake costing us a title.
We should have slightly overpaid Ayton and hoped for the best, said to ourselves well at least we got Bridges on a good discount.
Desertfox wrote:Could it have been as simple as the Suns worries that Ayton could have snuck into say 3rd Team All-NBA and have triggered the Super MAX kicker? Is that kicker only tied to 5 year MAX deals?
cberry78 wrote:Revived wrote:Anyone else find the game thread data thing to be annoying at the top of the page on realgm? Looks like a new addition but I can’t figure out a way to disable it. I can see the benefit in it but it also serves as a spoiler.
Looks like you can hide it with Adblock - haven't done it yet, but you can choose to select the area (at least on the main forum page).
bwgood77 wrote:Desertfox wrote:Could it have been as simple as the Suns worries that Ayton could have snuck into say 3rd Team All-NBA and have triggered the Super MAX kicker? Is that kicker only tied to 5 year MAX deals?
Yeah, that was actually my latest thought. That after this year they will know if it is impossible for him to get to the $207 and would be fine with the $172. That's a big difference. So if that's the case they are probably hoping for continued massive improvement but JUST missing All NBA.
or
They wanted to give him a deal as long as possible but not quite at the max, and on extensions you can only give 5 at that max level, but if you sign your own FA the next summer you can do 5 year deals, like John Collins got last summer (5/$125).
Hopefully next summer they give him a 5 year deal, whether it be the max or a little less. The 30% trigger would have really increase our tax next year, as starting salary on the contract would have jumped over $5 million which would have added like over $15 million to the tax..so it's not just the extra money in the contract, but tax too.
Slim Charless wrote:bwgood77 wrote:Desertfox wrote:Could it have been as simple as the Suns worries that Ayton could have snuck into say 3rd Team All-NBA and have triggered the Super MAX kicker? Is that kicker only tied to 5 year MAX deals?
Yeah, that was actually my latest thought. That after this year they will know if it is impossible for him to get to the $207 and would be fine with the $172. That's a big difference. So if that's the case they are probably hoping for continued massive improvement but JUST missing All NBA.
or
They wanted to give him a deal as long as possible but not quite at the max, and on extensions you can only give 5 at that max level, but if you sign your own FA the next summer you can do 5 year deals, like John Collins got last summer (5/$125).
Hopefully next summer they give him a 5 year deal, whether it be the max or a little less. The 30% trigger would have really increase our tax next year, as starting salary on the contract would have jumped over $5 million which would have added like over $15 million to the tax..so it's not just the extra money in the contract, but tax too.
What's to stop some team from offering him a 2 yr deal with a player option for the 3rd? Allowing him to hit UFA that much earlier.
If I was another team that's what I'd do. Force us to match and just make a play on him in 2 yrs-when Phoenix would be unable to do anything about it.
Saberestar wrote:
I think that James Jones doesn't want to invest so much money on a C.
Desertfox wrote:Could it have been as simple as the Suns worries that Ayton could have snuck into say 3rd Team All-NBA and have triggered the Super MAX kicker? Is that kicker only tied to 5 year MAX deals?
bwgood77 wrote:Saberestar wrote:
I think that James Jones doesn't want to invest so much money on a C.
That's an interesting choice of words. "Roster contstruction" will have many thinking it is him personally...which could be true, but also just to invest that much money into that position unless MVP caliber makes more sense...and I understand that.
It will just be interesting to see what it comes down to. If there belief is that they will only spend X amount of dollars on a guy, and he won't accept it, will they match an offer? Surely they wouldn't let him walk for nothing.
Then you come to S&Ts which never really get you anything close to value.
So then you get to trading during this season, which is breaking up (in a big way) a finals team.
It's not necessarily encouraging even if I don't necessarily disagree that I don't think it's worth spending that much on a C.
But for all we know, maybe they already have a trade in mind.
Slim Charless wrote:bwgood77 wrote:Desertfox wrote:Could it have been as simple as the Suns worries that Ayton could have snuck into say 3rd Team All-NBA and have triggered the Super MAX kicker? Is that kicker only tied to 5 year MAX deals?
Yeah, that was actually my latest thought. That after this year they will know if it is impossible for him to get to the $207 and would be fine with the $172. That's a big difference. So if that's the case they are probably hoping for continued massive improvement but JUST missing All NBA.
or
They wanted to give him a deal as long as possible but not quite at the max, and on extensions you can only give 5 at that max level, but if you sign your own FA the next summer you can do 5 year deals, like John Collins got last summer (5/$125).
Hopefully next summer they give him a 5 year deal, whether it be the max or a little less. The 30% trigger would have really increase our tax next year, as starting salary on the contract would have jumped over $5 million which would have added like over $15 million to the tax..so it's not just the extra money in the contract, but tax too.
What's to stop some team from offering him a 2 yr deal with a player option for the 3rd? Allowing him to hit UFA that much earlier.
If I was another team that's what I'd do. Force us to match and just make a play on him in 2 yrs-when Phoenix would be unable to do anything about it.
lilfishi22 wrote:Slim Charless wrote:bwgood77 wrote:
Yeah, that was actually my latest thought. That after this year they will know if it is impossible for him to get to the $207 and would be fine with the $172. That's a big difference. So if that's the case they are probably hoping for continued massive improvement but JUST missing All NBA.
or
They wanted to give him a deal as long as possible but not quite at the max, and on extensions you can only give 5 at that max level, but if you sign your own FA the next summer you can do 5 year deals, like John Collins got last summer (5/$125).
Hopefully next summer they give him a 5 year deal, whether it be the max or a little less. The 30% trigger would have really increase our tax next year, as starting salary on the contract would have jumped over $5 million which would have added like over $15 million to the tax..so it's not just the extra money in the contract, but tax too.
What's to stop some team from offering him a 2 yr deal with a player option for the 3rd? Allowing him to hit UFA that much earlier.
If I was another team that's what I'd do. Force us to match and just make a play on him in 2 yrs-when Phoenix would be unable to do anything about it.
Wouldn't opposing teams that have worked to clear space to offer him max money want more certainty in their acquisition than 2 years?