RealGM Top 75 GOAT Poll

[Moonbeam]

This is who I think the last 25 should be:

LeBron James
Shaquille O'Neal
Kobe Bryant
Stephen Curry
Dwyane Wade
Elgin Baylor
Kawhi Leonard
Artis Gilmore
Dwight Howard
Reggie Miller
Gary Payton
Paul Pierce
Anthony Davis
Ray Allen
Dolph Schayes
Jason Kidd
Pau Gasol
Adrian Dantley
Russell Westbrook
Alonzo Mourning
Alex English
Kevin Johnson
Bob Lanier
Dikembe Mutombo
Dominique Wilkins

This is who I think will get in:

LeBron James
Shaquille O'Neal
Kobe Bryant
Stephen Curry
Dwyane Wade
Elgin Baylor
Jason Kidd
Dolph Schayes
Gary Payton
Russell Westbrook
Kawhi Leonard
Dwight Howard
Pete Maravich
Pau Gasol
Paul Pierce
Ray Allen
Reggie Miller
Carmelo Anthony
Anthony Davis
Earl Monroe
Dominique Wilkins
Chauncey Billups
Nikola Jokić
Alonzo Mourning
Lenny Wilkens

[BoatsNZones]

This is who I think the last 25 should be:

LeBron James
Shaquille O'Neal
Kobe Bryant
Stephen Curry
Dwyane Wade
Elgin Baylor
Kawhi Leonard
Artis Gilmore
Dwight Howard
Reggie Miller
Gary Payton
Paul Pierce
Anthony Davis
Ray Allen
Dolph Schayes
Jason Kidd
Pau Gasol
Adrian Dantley
Russell Westbrook
Alonzo Mourning
Alex English
Kevin Johnson
Bob Lanier
Dikembe Mutombo
Dominique Wilkins

This is who I think will get in:

LeBron James
Shaquille O'Neal
Kobe Bryant
Stephen Curry
Dwyane Wade
Elgin Baylor
Jason Kidd
Dolph Schayes
Gary Payton
Russell Westbrook
Kawhi Leonard
Dwight Howard
Pete Maravich
Pau Gasol
Paul Pierce
Ray Allen
Reggie Miller
Carmelo Anthony
Anthony Davis
Earl Monroe
Dominique Wilkins
Chauncey Billups
Nikola Jokić
Alonzo Mourning
Lenny Wilkens

I like this list but Dame deserves it over Lenny Wilkens. Even relative to era, Dame has been All NBA 5X (all 5 of which he received top-5 MVP consideration), where Lenny was never all NBA. And it's not as if Lenny was a key cog on a perennial contender (0 ships, 1 Finals loss when it was a 2 series title).

[BIGJ1ER]

I made an effort to rank them even though at some point it's really tiers of players and I might rank them differently on another day or after a different line of thinking.

1. Michael Jordan
2. LeBron James
3. Bill Russell
4. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
5. Shaquille O'Neal
6. Tim Duncan
7. Wilt Chamberlain
8. Magic Johnson
9. Larry Bird
10. Kobe Bryant
11. Hakeem Olajuwon
12. Dirk Nowitzki
13. Moses Malone
14. Karl Malone
15. Jerry West
16. George Mikan
17. Julius Erving
18. David Robinson
19. Charles Barkley
20. Oscar Robertson
21. Kevin Durant
22. Bob Pettit
23. Elgin Baylor
24. Dwyane Wade
25. Stephen Curry
26. Scottie Pippen
27. Patrick Ewing
28. Kevin Garnett
29. Bob Cousy
30. Allen Iverson
31. Bill Walton
32. Rick Barry
33. Isiah Thomas
34. John Stockton
35. Walt Frazier
36. John Havlicek
37. Jason Kidd
38. Chris Paul
39. George Gervin
40. Steve Nash
41. Giannis Antetokounmpo
42. Elvin Hayes
43. Reggie Miller
44. Willis Reed
45. Wes Unseld
46. Dave Cowens
47. Pete Maravich
48. Earl Monroe
49. Dikembe Mutombo
50. Jerry Lucas
51. Dave Bing
52. Gary Payton
53. Kevin McHale
54. Bob McAdoo
55. James Worthy
56. Russell Westbrook
57. Sam Jones
58. Robert Parish
59. Nate Thurmond
60. Clyde Drexler
61. Dominique Wilkins
62. Dolph Schayes
63. Artis Gilmore
64. Paul Arizin
65. Nate Archibald
66. Bill Sharman
67. Paul Pierce
68. Bob Lanier
69. Walt Bellamy
70. Hal Greer
71. Bernard King
72. Alonzo Mourning
73. Ray Allen
74. Dennis Rodman
75. Carmelo Anthony

tougest omissions (next 5):
Dave DeBusschere, James Harden, Billy Cunningham, Pau Gasol, Lenny Wilkens

Genuine question, what was your thought process behind putting Someone like Carmelo in, but leaving Harden off?

I'm not a harden fan by any means, but I have a hard time seeing how james harden doesn't make the cut (I'd have him way higher) and espeically behind someone like carmelo.

[CM17]

50 of the 75 players have been named. Here is how they ranked on our list:

#1 Michael Jordan
#2 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
#4 Bill Russell
#5 Wilt Chamberlain
#6 Tim Duncan
#7 Magic Johnson
#9 Larry Bird
#10 Hakeem Olajuwon
#12 Oscar Robertson
#13 Jerry West
#14 Julius Erving
#15 Karl Malone
#16 Dirk Nowitzki
#17 Moses Malone
#18 Kevin Durant
#19 Kevin Garnett
#21 David Robinson
#22 Charles Barkley
#23 George Mikan
#24 Bob Pettit
#27 Chris Paul
#28 John Havlicek
#29 John Stockton
#30 Patrick Ewing
#31 Steve Nash
#32 Walt Frazier
#33 Scottie Pippen
#34 Isiah Thomas
#35 Rick Barry
#36 Giannis Antetokounmpo
#37 Clyde Drexler
#39 Bob Cousy
#42 George Gervin
#43 James Harden
#44 Elvin Hayes
#45 Allen Iverson
#48 Kevin McHale
#49 Dave Cowens
#50 Willis Reed
#56 Paul Arizin
#57 Wes Unseld
#58 Sam Jones
#61 Nate Thurmond
#64 Bill Walton
#65 Robert Parish
#69 Hal Greer
#74 James Worthy
#78 Bill Sharman
#84 Jerry Lucas
#85 Tiny Archibald

Of the 25 remaining, I think these guys are locks (along with our rankings):

#3 LeBron James
#8 Shaquille O'Neal
#11 Kobe Bryant
#20 Stephen Curry
#25 Dwyane Wade
#26 Elgin Baylor
#38 Jason Kidd
#40 Dolph Schayes
#41 Gary Payton
#46 Russell Westbrook
#47 Kawhi Leonard

That leaves 14 spots, likely among the following in our list:

#51 Dominique Wilkins
#52 Pau Gasol
#53 Artis Gilmore
#54 Dwight Howard
#55 Ray Allen
#59 Paul Pierce
#60 Reggie Miller
#62 Anthony Davis
#63 Bob McAdoo
#66 Adrian Dantley
#67 Damian Lillard
#68 Alex English
#70 Bob Lanier
#71 Alonzo Mourning
#72 Carmelo Anthony
#73 Dennis Rodman
#75 Dikembe Mutombo
#76 Bernard King
#77 Tracy McGrady
#79 Sidney Moncrief
#80 Chauncey Billups
#81 Neil Johnston
#82 Kevin Johnson
#83 Manu Ginóbili
#86 Nikola Jokić
#87 Pete Maravich
#88 George Yardley
#89 Vince Carter
#90 Lenny Wilkens
#91 Dave DeBusschere
#92 Bob Davies
#93 Ben Wallace
#94 Tony Parker
#95 Walt Bellamy
#97 Billy Cunningham
#97 Joe Fulks
#97 Rasheed Wallace
#99 Earl Monroe
#100 Dave Bing
#101 Marques Johnson
#102 Dan Issel
#103 Dennis Johnson
#104 Shawn Marion
#105 Grant Hill
#106 Tom Heinsohn
#107 Chris Bosh
#108 Slater Martin
#109 Chris Webber

What are your predictions?

So, the NBA calls them the top75 who shaped, defined and redefined the game.
I guess a few top scorers will be left out.
Probably Maravich, Ray Allen, Gilmore, Reggie Miller, Mutombo, Cunningham, Monroe will be in.
I hope McAdoo, Rodman, Big Ben, Wilkins will be there, too.

[richboy]

Reggie Miller is the most overrated player in league history. He was an all star level player that sometimes didn’t make the team. 20 points per game scorer. Did nothing else at really a average level. He had really big moments in New York. Then became a favorite member of the media. He has used that to get completely overrated . The guy who was once lost all star births to Jon Starks and Hersey Hawkins. Is now beating out Dwight Howard for accolades.

[wojoaderge]

Reggie Miller is the most overrated player in league history. He was an all star level player that sometimes didn’t make the team. 20 points per game scorer. Did nothing else at really a average level. He had really big moments in New York. Then became a favorite member of the media. He has used that to get completely overrated . The guy who was once lost all star births to Jon Starks and Hersey Hawkins. Is now beating out Dwight Howard for accolades.

He was even surprised he made it

[Catchall]

I know his career was short-lived, but Penny Hardaway was a better player than Clyde Drexler, imo. Penny was a top-3 MVP candidate during his peak. TMac was also better than Drexler, imo.

Also, I respect Dikembe Mutombo as much as the next guy, but he wasn't better than Alonzo Mourning, and he certainly wasn't better than Nikola Jokic. When it's all said and done, Jokic will be considered a better player than guys like David Robinson and Patrick Ewing, probably Bill Walton as well. I mean, the guy just beat out Giannis, Steph, KD and Lebron for MVP.

[jokeboy86]

I know his career was short-lived, but Penny Hardaway was a better player than Clyde Drexler, imo. Penny was a top-3 MVP candidate during his peak. TMac was also better than Drexler, imo.

Clyde Drexler was the best player on a team that made the Finals 2x when Magic was still playing in the West and he only lost to Isaiah's Pistons and Jordan's Bulls. That still means something.

[Moonbeam]

I know his career was short-lived, but Penny Hardaway was a better player than Clyde Drexler, imo. Penny was a top-3 MVP candidate during his peak. TMac was also better than Drexler, imo.

Drexler finished 2nd in MVP voting in 1992, and in the top 10 3 other times (#5 in 1988, #6 in 1991, and #10 in 1993).

[Moonbeam]

In the end, the NBA list featured 9 players who didn't make our top 76:

#78 Bill Sharman
#84 Jerry Lucas
#85 Tiny Archibald
#87 Pete Maravich
#90 Lenny Wilkens
#91 Dave DeBusschere
#97 Billy Cunningham
#99 Earl Monroe
#100 Dave Bing

There were the 9 players who made our list who didn't make the NBA's top 76:

#52 Pau Gasol
#53 Artis Gilmore
#54 Dwight Howard
#66 Adrian Dantley
#68 Alex English
#70 Bob Lanier
#71 Alonzo Mourning
#75 Dikembe Mutombo
#76 Bernard King

[Message Boar]

Our list is better tbh (biased ofc, but still).

Though looking back, Pau Gasol at #52, as well as some other selections, might be a tad on the high side. I mean I love the guy too, but that's a bit of a stretch; there might be a bit of a bias there since realgm probably saw more of the players who played in the 2000's/early 2010's than the ones who came before.

[brannigan73]

I'm mystified by the whole Klay Thompson was snubbed thing. He has played 8 years and has a 20PPG average and like 45 winshares. He is one of the greatest shooters of all time but honeslty most years I feel like he is a top 15-25 player in the NBA. Any real analytic breakdown would not show him as a top 75 player but subjectivety giving him outsized credit for his shooting and the number of championships the Warriors have might if you squint real hard.

[breezypeezy]

Chris Mullin had that 5 yr stretch where he's shooting over 50% and over 25ppg each year, also would take Bob Lanier over a few that made the NBA's 75 list.

[Moonbeam]

I'm mystified by the whole Klay Thompson was snubbed thing. He has played 8 years and has a 20PPG average and like 45 winshares. He is one of the greatest shooters of all time but honeslty most years I feel like he is a top 15-25 player in the NBA. Any real analytic breakdown would not show him as a top 75 player but subjectivety giving him outsized credit for his shooting and the number of championships the Warriors have might if you squint real hard.

I can understand the psychology of great players like Klay feeling they belong --- that's how these guys got to be as good as they are. But I agree in that I don't see why there is much outcry regarding Klay missing the list, particularly when guys like Dwight, Gasol, Mutombo, Mourning, Manu, Jokic, and Parker are more deserving.

[C-Melo Man]

I know his career was short-lived, but Penny Hardaway was a better player than Clyde Drexler, imo. Penny was a top-3 MVP candidate during his peak. TMac was also better than Drexler, imo.

Drexler finished 2nd in MVP voting in 1992, and in the top 10 3 other times (#5 in 1988, #6 in 1991, and #10 in 1993).

As well as being an NBA Champion with the Houston Rockets as the second best player who was still ballin. No disrespect to Anfernee "Penny" Hardaway as he was a beast WHEN healthy, but I'm not putting him in the Top 75 and especially not over Clyde "the Glide" Drexler who was in the original Top 50 All-Time List. I'm also bias that he's my favorite player all-time, but Clyde was the legit #2 SG behind Michael Jordan during his playing days.

[Saciid11]

Dwight Howard is the only player that has legit case of being snubbed. How can you put Lillard, Davis and even Ray Allen & Pierce and not Dwight Howard who accomplished way more then these guys.

[Jzh]

Dwight Howard is the only player that has legit case of being snubbed. How can you put Lillard, Davis and even Ray Allen & Pierce and not Dwight Howard who accomplished way more then these guys.

The only one ? I'm a homer on that one but Parker is a final MVP, top 10 all time points/top 5 all time assists in playoffs and second option to one of the best team in history.

People arguing him and Manu got carried by Duncan, what about all the second options in winning teams in that case (Pippen, Klay or to an extreme Bryant with Shaq). Picking Lillard over him as of today is a disgrace, sure he may be intrisically better but he's never achieved anything in the league so far.

[ReasonablySober]

Have any of you voting Walton anywhere near the top, I don't know...100?...looked to see what he actually did in the NBA? Top 200?

[calderon13]

How some of you have Westbrook over Manu is beyond me? Prime Manu was unreal. Don't get caught up in all the triple doubles folks and 1 MVP. Prime Manu would wipe the floor with Westbrook regardless of how freakishly athletic westbrook is

[Roy The Natural]

Dwight Howard is the only player that has legit case of being snubbed. How can you put Lillard, Davis and even Ray Allen & Pierce and not Dwight Howard who accomplished way more then these guys.

The only one ? I'm a homer on that one but Parker is a final MVP, top 10 all time points/top 5 all time assists in playoffs and second option to one of the best team in history.

People arguing him and Manu got carried by Duncan, what about all the second options in winning teams in that case (Pippen, Klay or to an extreme Bryant with Shaq). Picking Lillard over him as of today is a disgrace, sure he may be intrisically better but he's never achieved anything in the league so far.

I disagree with this type of take vehemently. If it's fairly clear that one player is "intrinsically" better... they need to be ranked higher. It's only when it's difficult to parse that "team accomplishments" should get thrown into the ring. I don't think we should be parsing the bottom of the top 100 or so players all time by rings and championships. If a players had a better peak, he was a better player.