Nets @ Bucks | 10.19.2021 @ 7:30 PM on TNT

[MrDollarBills]

Watching the Knicks play right now, I'm even more disgusted by the Nets effort last night.

They all should be embarrassed getting blown out like that. Must be nice to have a coach that instills urgency and discipline in his team. We looked like we were still in training camp.

[ecuhus1981]

I streamed the game from my phone, I want to check out highlights on a full screen before locking in concrete takes. Like many of you, I feel that the sense of urgency was missing. There's a fine line between saving it for the postseason, and coasting. Saint Patty and Kevin were the only ones looking motivated to win, everyone else was testing the waters. Perhaps getting in more of the junkyard dogs (Johnson, Bembry, and especially Brown!) earlier would have helped in that regard.

My premonition came true, about Harden stanning for Claxton to be the 5th starter. Let's hope that this pairing is a dream like spurts of last season, instead of the nightmare we witnessed last night.

Nic is gonna get another bite of the apple on Friday against Philly. I don't expect him to guard Joel 100% of the time, but Drummond and even Harris bring a physicality similar to Milwaukee. Will he be able to hold his own this time, protect the paint, crash the glass and hustle on both ends? If not, I think Nash will have a short conversation with James about his lil buddy. I'm not down on Blondie, and if you'll recall, Jarrett struggled with toughness at the beginning of his 3rd season. I think he'll pan out, but if he gets rag-dolled again, we'll need him to marinate in Long Island while the vets resurrect the frontcourt.

[NetsWorld]

Note to any mod, there is a Knicks troll in this board, Knicks fans be sour there bitch ass team ain’t going anywhere. He just And 1d my prediction like a kid. Ban this guy please.

[Prokorov]

I think if anything, James Johnson needs to be getting some of LMA's minutes. Bembry also needs to play. We need to inject defense and hustle into the line up. Guys were ball watching and not playing hard. I know it's game 1, but show some pride. Patty Mills played with urgency. We need everyone else to do that.

Carter needs to start at SG. Harris needs to come off of the bench.

Give me Harden/Carter/Durant/Griffin/Claxton to start.

Mills, Bembry, Harris, Johnson, Milsap as reserves. LMA really should only play versus Embiid, Jokic, etc. I dunno where you find mins for Brown.

I dont think Blake at PF works.... basically what that does is:

-More 3PA for blake, less for harris.
-Blake guarding 4s where he is weak vs guarding 5s where he is solid
-Decrease spacing
-Makes the team less 'switchable'

Love blake at C. at PF we are better off starting milsap or johnson if we want to go "big". The only reason to go big is rebounding, and as you saw, if you switch everything, it doesnt matter anyway cause your smalls are boxing out bigs after switches.

Also, i counted 10 corner threes for the bucks. 6 of those were blake or LMA close outs/not recovering on close outs.

I dont hate LMA or think he has no role. but i dont think he should be a top 3 option in our big rotation and i hate blake at PF,

C - Blake/Claxton in any order then milsap small ball then LMA if blake is out/foul trouble
PF - KD, Milsap, Brown/Johnson

[Prokorov]

Nash will be even more exposed now that D'Antoni is gone. He is a disaster, I don't know why KD decided that he was gonna be the coach. It's not about putting your friends in these positions, you need competence, and Nash is a clueless puppett with no coaching philosphy and no authority.

Marks with a d-bag move passing dozens of more qualified black/female options to get his buddy a job.

[Prokorov]

After the series Brown had against the Bucks in the playoffs, and his effectiveness against Middleton, I don't understand why he was glued to the bench. Looking at the box score, it looked like Middleton went cold at the end, but I recall seeing that he was like 7-10 at some point.

Nash was experimenting which im fine with. alot of hoopola but this game was not important to go all out to win at any cost of continuity.

these early games you need to see what works. that said, it was obvious going big and playing LMA a ton was going to be ugly.

[Prokorov]

I opt to start Carter over Harris and Brown at SG because Carter can hit threes as well as defend. We need guys that are going to hustle and scrap.

Harden and Harris in the backcourt is not going to work. Harris is a liability out there if he's not scoring on threes and 9 points in 30 mins is crap. At least Carter can provide aggressive defense and hit threes at a decent clip. I could care less if he scores 5 points a game, his defense will be much more useful.

Harris at the 2 works great if you're not going "big". teams can help off blake at PF. teams can NOT help off Durant at PF. Bucks constantly helped off blake in the corner. if we go small, they dont have the luxury of helping. We start most sets with KD/Harrs in the corner/low wing and harden initiating. that opens up the court a TON. teams cant help off either wing. I like carter starting, but go small:

Harden | Carter | Harris | KD | Claxton

Thats our best 2-way lineup that has elite spacing and a rim roll threat. im fine with blake instead of claxton there too.

[quote\
Also, although it is one game, Claxton got called out on national television and frankly it's embarrassing. He should be all over those 50/50 balls. if he's not, then maybe we need to just go to Blake at C and bring in James Johnson at PF.

I'm pretty irritated from what I saw last night, not gonna lie to yall. That lack of hustle is inexcusable. Get up for your opponents. This team should never lose by this kind of margin, doesn't matter who we're playing.

Play the defenders. Harris needs to play, but he doesn't need to start. I'm tired of absolute no names on the Bucks coming through torching us. Marks brought in Carter, signed Bembry and Johnson, and resigned Bruce. Nash needs to use them. Now.[/quote]

Coaching is an issue here. there role guys basically just hit threes, and we constantly help off them. dont do that! let giannis score 100 not so efficient points and win 115-100. we get burned every time we helped off the corners.

im not worried about effort. i thought we had ok effort overall. its clear harden and claxton are out of shape (or maybe claxton is just sitll sick).

[MrDollarBills]

I think if anything, James Johnson needs to be getting some of LMA's minutes. Bembry also needs to play. We need to inject defense and hustle into the line up. Guys were ball watching and not playing hard. I know it's game 1, but show some pride. Patty Mills played with urgency. We need everyone else to do that.

Carter needs to start at SG. Harris needs to come off of the bench.

Give me Harden/Carter/Durant/Griffin/Claxton to start.

Mills, Bembry, Harris, Johnson, Milsap as reserves. LMA really should only play versus Embiid, Jokic, etc. I dunno where you find mins for Brown.

I dont think Blake at PF works.... basically what that does is:

-More 3PA for blake, less for harris.
-Blake guarding 4s where he is weak vs guarding 5s where he is solid
-Decrease spacing
-Makes the team less 'switchable'

Love blake at C. at PF we are better off starting milsap or johnson if we want to go "big". The only reason to go big is rebounding, and as you saw, if you switch everything, it doesnt matter anyway cause your smalls are boxing out bigs after switches.

Also, i counted 10 corner threes for the bucks. 6 of those were blake or LMA close outs/not recovering on close outs.

I dont hate LMA or think he has no role. but i dont think he should be a top 3 option in our big rotation and i hate blake at PF,

C - Blake/Claxton in any order then milsap small ball then LMA if blake is out/foul trouble
PF - KD, Milsap, Brown/Johnson

Yeah, I don't hate LMA either, far from it, he seems like a chill guy that just wants to win, but we cannot play the defense that we do now with him at C. It puts him in a terrible spot. If we have to go Claxton/Blake at C, so be it.

When LMA is in, guys need to get through screens and he needs to drop back. Otherwise whats the point?

[Prokorov]

At only 6'1" I would think some matchups are very much not going to be in Carter's favor. I wonder if Brown worked on his three-ball this offseason? It would certainly help.]/quote]

Size doesnt bother Carter... like lowry he plays much bigger due to his strength. guy is a rock. he can check anyone.

I like the constructive critiques the last page or so, but some of the earlier pessimistic comments are just ridiculous. The Bucks' core has been playing together for years, and the Nets only brought back seven players from last year. Even the big two are pretty new, and haven't played that much for us yet.

my view of the bucks hasnt changed. not in the same tier as nets/miami. a win at home when we are playing 1980s basically ball with slow big players and sitting our stars long stretches doesnt change my mind on that. with no kyrie, harden worked back into shape, and ditching this "big" lineup stuff, we stomp them 3 of every 4 games

I don't disagree that the Nets are title favorites, but this is a team that shouldn't really be firing on all cylinders until a couple months down the road. IMO we should expect some aggravating losses in the meantime.

yea, and nash is the worst coach in the league. like i said, this is a 52-58 win team not some 60+ win team

[Prokorov]

Props to the Bucks. They are the champions and they showed why. The Nets need to take this and realize that nothing will be handed to them.

Shout out to Patty Mills. He showed up tonight from the time he checked into the game while everyone else was lolly gagging.

onto Philly.

Bucks are good. But they are the only other contender in the East.

Sixers are collapsing before our eyes. Hawks and Heat are not on the same talent level.

Looking for a big bounce back win next game hopefully.

We're the new kids on the block at the moment (until proven otherwise), but don't completely sleep on the Bulls. Things come down to not only talent but also chemistry and health potential of all teams.

I dont see the hype on the bulls. Awful roster contructions. i expect a bottom 5 finish. as much as i love lavine/ball vucevic is the biggest net negative empty stats guy in the league and derozan is an all-time bad fit next to him

[MrDollarBills]

Coaching is an issue here. there role guys basically just hit threes, and we constantly help off them. dont do that! let giannis score 100 not so efficient points and win 115-100. we get burned every time we helped off the corners.

Yeah, we should not be helping on anyone. Stay home. I'd rather give up contested two pointers over wide open threes. Nash is out of his goddamn mind and I'm already sick of it.

Embiid can score 70 tomorrow night and I don't care. Keep the shooters from getting clean looks and we win running away.

[Prokorov]

Patty is what Harris wishes he could be.

I mean, Harris is pretty damn elite as a shooter. shot 60% from three tonight. he had some bad playoff games in big spots. but overall he has been about as good as you could possibly ask for. He is being drastically overhated on.

He always sucks in big games and in the playoffs.

I'm tired of all these damn excuses for him. I hope he plays well and we trade him.

simply not true.

Playoffs
-Philly series he was bad. we were also drastically outmatched and missing players
-Toronto series(bubble) he was great. 17/10 on 7/12 from three
-Boston series he was great. 14/4 on 17/33 from three
-Bucks series he was ok

People look at his awful game 6/7 and the huge miss in overtime and complete dismiss that he was awesome earlier in the series (16 ppg on 8/16 from three games 1/2).

Also overlooked is that nash played him 48 minutes in game 7. You probably dont have your legs on a jumper playing 48 minutes in a game 7. Meanwhile shamet was glued to the bench and could have at least given harris a breather for a few minutes.

He has been the same guy in the playoffs he is in the regular season. an extremely solid role player and sniper from three. He got shut down vs much better philly team and struggled vs the bucks after Kyrie/Harden went down and was forced to play huge minutes (not to mention the bucks focusing on him with no one else but KD to worry about)

There is no better alternative to Joe Harris. all role players are up and down in the playoffs... ESPECIALLY on the road.

[Prokorov]

This would be my starting lineup

Harden
Brown
Harris
KD
Claxton

We clearly need more defense. Brown will hound guys. Claxton has to play better. But hes still our best defensive big. Otherwise I'd start Milsap.

I like that, but prefer Carter... Carter is the better Defender 1-3 and can shoot threes. Brown better 3/4 and less of a shooter

im ok with both, i want no blake at PF and no LMA unless blake is out

[Prokorov]

Cutting Alize was a mistake. He was the one guy who was most definitely a plus on the boards which is what this team is sorely lacking.

Rebounding doesnt matter. it is the least impactful part of the game and why the PF position is dead and most teams go small at center full or part time.

And in our switch-everything scheme, going bigger doesnt help much on the glass, cause you still have smalls battling bigs for rebounds with your bigs out on the perimeter defensively.

Nets crushed everyone last year while getting killed on the boards. We need to stop going big. go back to limiting threes instead of worrying about rebounds. where the bucks really killed us was with open threes, not rebounds.

[Prokorov]

We're the new kids on the block at the moment (until proven otherwise), but don't completely sleep on the Bulls. Things come down to not only talent but also chemistry and health potential of all teams.

Bro stop.

I like the Bulls but not as a serious contender in the East. No shot of beating the Nets or Bucks in a playoff series.

First of all, don't assume I'm a bro. I understand it's not likely, esp. when it comes to Bucks, but I could imagine many teams (no offense but Nets included) falling off the wagon as the season advances due to injuries (from age, luck, and injury history) and/or lack of cohesion. Who knows if things with Irving/Durant/Harden will ever be consistent enough to progress. We have youth on our side with the oldest player on our team, DeRozan, being 32, and obviously Zach LaVine is no scrub. I know that preseason is preseason, but we are undefeated which is noteworthy considering the major roster shakeup we've just had. If we get to the finals, we don't meet every team. If Hawks squeaked through and beat the Bucks last year, you guys would have likely been champs and Durant's toes wouldn't be trending, so you know well how match ups and injuries come into play after 90+ games.

you cant win in the playoffs if you dont make the playoffs. the bulls likely wont make the playoffs. youth is not an asset. preseason doesnt matter. bulls looked awful vs the worst team ni the league last night. Unless they trade vucevic, they will suck

[Prokorov]

I streamed the game from my phone, I want to check out highlights on a full screen before locking in concrete takes. Like many of you, I feel that the sense of urgency was missing. There's a fine line between saving it for the postseason, and coasting. Saint Patty and Kevin were the only ones looking motivated to win, everyone else was testing the waters. Perhaps getting in more of the junkyard dogs (Johnson, Bembry, and especially Brown!) earlier would have helped in that regard.

Part of playing with effort is playing high effort guys. you wont get that with older bigs like LMA playing big minutes and sitting guys like Bembry/Brown. Also, Harden is clearly not in regular season shape. i assume his hammy delayed his preseason conditioning.

[Prokorov]

Coaching is an issue here. there role guys basically just hit threes, and we constantly help off them. dont do that! let giannis score 100 not so efficient points and win 115-100. we get burned every time we helped off the corners.

Yeah, we should not be helping on anyone. Stay home. I'd rather give up contested two pointers over wide open threes. Nash is out of his goddamn mind and I'm already sick of it.

Embiid can score 70 tomorrow night and I don't care. Keep the shooters from getting clean looks and we win running away.

Exactly. We see every year in the playoffs embiid is dropping 35-40 in losses. let him get his, dont give up open threes. he will be gassed late either way

[MGrand15]

Lots of overreacting here. We did a lot of experimenting last night.

1. We played big at the front court. I think this would've worked with Jeff Green instead of Blake last season but Blake isn't good enough to play 4 against such a good defensive team. Maybe as a 2nd unit thing - it's fine. Milwaukee is too relentless flooding the paint. This needs to be Millsap in this spot - he's a much better shooter + a little more dynamic with the ball.

2. Claxton was guarding Middleton. This is the first time he's been a primary defender on a wing. It's an OK idea but I'm not a fan. He's not comfortable fighting over screens (no center is). His transition defense was a mess guarding a wing. He's great on switches because it's just 1v1. Having to play TEAM and off the ball defense as a perimeter player is a whole different story.

3. LMA. I'm not really a fan. I think the team is hoping he can a viable center against the big teams. There aren't many but Embiid + Giannis/Lopez + maybe the Lakers? LMA is our biggest player. Let's see how he does against Philly. Milwaukee's offense is too spread for him to defend. He's a bad fit with Harden too.

4. Bruce didn't play. I think the idea was to give James Johnson his minutes and see if he could hold his own against Giannis. I think the answer there was hell no. I don't think JJ is a rotation guy. He's too erratic.

5. People need to relax about the effort. It sucked for sure but this team got up for EVERY big game last year. We crushed teams over .500 and we crushed national TV games. I think this is just a fluke.

Overall, I respect the experiments. This is the time to do it. We need to see if a "big" lineup works against Giannis. Still though - we sacrificed too much of our overall identity trying to match up. I think we need to go:

Carter
Harden
Harris
KD
Claxton

Starting line up damn near every game. Elite spacing needs to be more of a priority without Kyrie around. Off the bench - Mills, Brown, Millsap, Blake - with some Bembry mixed in. LMA + Johnson need to be situational guys.

[MGrand15]

The 3pt attempts are on everyone - not just the coaching staff. Transition defense was a huge mess. We lost all the 50/50 balls and a bunch of those offensive boards led to wide open 3s. Effort as a whole was just very poor.

This is on the players + coaches - there was A LOT of confusion in basic PNR defense. Guys not knowing whether to switch, trap, drop, etc. These are elementary school breakdowns from vets. I assume part of it is that we just switched everything last year and guys are still adjusting. Mills / Carter / Millsap are used to fighting over screens and stuff too.

Giannis getting doubled I don't mind but we can't do that when we're playing 2 bigs. The team is too slow to rotate. If you double, you need everyone else to fly back when the ball is kicked out. LMA + Blake + Harden just aren't doing that. Claxton was gassed so he wasn't doing it.

[Prokorov]

The 3pt attempts are on everyone - not just the coaching staff. Transition defense was a huge mess. We lost all the 50/50 balls and a bunch of those offensive boards led to wide open 3s. Effort as a whole was just very poor.

This is on the players + coaches - there was A LOT of confusion in basic PNR defense. Guys not knowing whether to switch, trap, drop, etc. These are elementary school breakdowns from vets. I assume part of it is that we just switched everything last year and guys are still adjusting. Mills / Carter / Millsap are used to fighting over screens and stuff too.

Giannis getting doubled I don't mind but we can't do that when we're playing 2 bigs. The team is too slow to rotate. If you double, you need everyone else to fly back when the ball is kicked out. LMA + Blake + Harden just aren't doing that. Claxton was gassed so he wasn't doing it.

Agree, but a big part is on the coaching... like you said, you cant play 2 old/slow bigs and then ask them to help and recover to close out on three point shooters. it just isn't physically possible for them. we know the bucks extremely well. im fine with a loss and growing pains with rotaiton but you can still have a logical game plan along with that.

like you said, this was elementary school stuff... and its not just a lack of planning but lack of communicaiton. You sub in LMA/Milsap for KD/Claxton you need to be vocal during that sub "hey we are lock and trail on pick and rolls now, only switching 1 through 4".

this is stuff us and 3 other guys from this board could sort out during lunch break. no excuse for the nets not be able to do it in an offseason with weeks to prepare for this openener. the stuff liek 50-50 balls, effort, poor play. clunky rotations. all part of early season stuff. but some of this should not happen and i dont think would with a real coach