Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition)

[Slim Tubby]

I saw a deal suggestion I liked for Simmons on CanisHoopus. It is a fair price (though the 76ers and maybe the Raptors won’t do it,) but it is consistent with the actual value of Simmons.

Raptors give Siakam, get Beasley, Beverly, top 20 protected wolves first (future,)
76ers Give Simmons, get Siakam and Wolves 2022 lottery protected 1st.
Wolves get Simmons.

2 well protected firsts and Beasley, Beverly probably sounds low. But Simmons is on a bad contract, cannot jump shoot, and has a history of chocking in the playoffs. Add to this power free throw percentage and a history of injury and this trade is probably the max I would give (Beasley, plus either Prince, Beverly, or Bolmaro,) and 2 protected firsts.

That’s a horrifically bad return for Siakam.

Siakim was really good two years ago, and got a max deal, but last year, he really declined as teams figured him out, and he made people question whether he was worth the max. Maybe he’ll do better next year (I try to give all players a Covid pass for last year), but I don’t think he has a ton of trade value on that deal.

Fair enough.


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[SO_MONEY]

I'd personally trade DLo and a couple of top 8 protected 1sts for Simmons, and I think it's not us who didn't make an offer like this, it's Philly who refused it. Let's hope their situation gets bad enough that they decide to take an offer of this kind. So when people here pop up with the old "Sweet lemon, sour grapes" tale, I just cringe.

That would leave us without a PG or much of a way to get one. I don't think we do that.

1. Minnesota would have Patrick Beverly and Jordan McLaughlin.
2. Ben Simmons has played Point-Guard as the second best player of a team that had the best record in the Eastern Conference.

That's funny.

[Dosadi]

Doesn't the Ben S situation boil down to whether Morey thinks he can get more now vs more later?

Given the 4 year deal, it appears that Philly is very content to just call Ben's bluff and hold on to him for as long as it takes. And they can do that because Embid (not Simmons) is the dominant personality in the room, so they won't see the disruption in their locker room. Thus management can keep suspending/not paying him until he either walks out (and they don't have to pay him), or he capitulates and participates, but certainly with little effort/commitment. So I think Morey has time - and he knows he has time.

I thus return to my point - the question is whether Morey can get more now or later? Thus, Damon L's blanket statement yesterday about staying in Portland has more weight than the discipline of Simmons in this equation. To me, it suggests that waiting will not improve his odds of getting DL later, and that limits his options in for a "Later being better" trade.

[Klomp]

The more I think of it, the more I think Philadelphia will settle for a Wiggins-like trade.

I think the scariest solution for the league would be a Simmons-for-Irving swap.

[Klomp]

Full circle: Philadelphia trades Simmons for.....Markelle Fultz.

[FinnTheHuman]

Doesn't the Ben S situation boil down to whether Morey thinks he can get more now vs more later?

Given the 4 year deal, it appears that Philly is very content to just call Ben's bluff and hold on to him for as long as it takes. And they can do that because Embid (not Simmons) is the dominant personality in the room, so they won't see the disruption in their locker room. Thus management can keep suspending/not paying him until he either walks out (and they don't have to pay him), or he capitulates and participates, but certainly with little effort/commitment. So I think Morey has time - and he knows he has time.

I thus return to my point - the question is whether Morey can get more now or later? Thus, Damon L's blanket statement yesterday about staying in Portland has more weight than the discipline of Simmons in this equation. To me, it suggests that waiting will not improve his odds of getting DL later, and that limits his options in for a "Later being better" trade.

The problem is, Simmons is 32 mil of wasted cap space on that roster. Can Philly be a 1st round home team without the value Simmons adds, especially with Embiid missing his usual 30%+ of the season? They'll probably win less without Simmons, but can they even have a .500 record in games without both Embiid and Simmons? What if Philly is unable to be a top 6 team, meaning play-in and going against the Bucks or Nets in the 1st round?

So no, Philly can't just let Simmons occupy their cap space for 4 years doing nothing, all their players are going to demand from Morey to take the load off their shoulders and bring more help in a Simmons trade. The severity of the situation gets amplified if you take into account that Embiid is likely gonna have a short prime, given his health issues, so he wants to contend asap.

So yeah, most likely Morey can't wait, even if there are potentially better trades in the future.

[Dosadi]

Doesn't the Ben S situation boil down to whether Morey thinks he can get more now vs more later?

Given the 4 year deal, it appears that Philly is very content to just call Ben's bluff and hold on to him for as long as it takes. And they can do that because Embid (not Simmons) is the dominant personality in the room, so they won't see the disruption in their locker room. Thus management can keep suspending/not paying him until he either walks out (and they don't have to pay him), or he capitulates and participates, but certainly with little effort/commitment. So I think Morey has time - and he knows he has time.

I thus return to my point - the question is whether Morey can get more now or later? Thus, Damon L's blanket statement yesterday about staying in Portland has more weight than the discipline of Simmons in this equation. To me, it suggests that waiting will not improve his odds of getting DL later, and that limits his options in for a "Later being better" trade.

The problem is, Simmons is 32 mil of wasted cap space on that roster. Can Philly be a 1st round home team without the value Simmons adds, especially with Embiid missing his usual 30%+ of the season? They'll probably win less without Simmons, but can they even have a .500 record in games without both Embiid and Simmons? What if Philly is unable to be a top 6 team, meaning play-in and going against the Bucks or Nets in the 1st round?

So no, Philly can't just let Simmons occupy their cap space for 4 years doing nothing, all their players are going to demand from Morey to take the load off their shoulders and bring more help in a Simmons trade. The severity of the situation gets amplified if you take into account that Embiid is likely gonna have a short prime, given his health issues, so he wants to contend asap.

So yeah, most likely Morey can't wait, even if there are potentially better trades in the future.

Great response -well thought out and expressed - but, I respectfully disagree to an extent. I do think that they can be a first round host w/o Simmons this year. I do agree, however, that they cannot wait 4 years for him to come around - but I do think they can wait at least one year. And to me, that's the relevant time period. So I should have been more specific that "later" equals some time prior to the beginning of next season.

[Baseline81]

At some point, Doc is going to meet with Morey and tell him Simmons is becoming too big of a distraction, assuming he continues his recent behavior.

I believe it was Woj who said Embiid and Simmons have yet to speak since his return.

I'm thoroughly enjoying the story. At this point, it's a staring contest of who can make the other's life more miserable. First, Simmons wouldn't report after saying he wanted out. Morey responded by withholding his money and having unreasonable trade demands. Simmons counters by showing up disengaged.

[Klomp]

Even if we don't get Simmons, I wouldn't rule out us getting involved somehow. I know we attributed those types of moves to Rosas, but really they are Gupta's specialty. One of those moves where we pick up someone on the fringes of a roster who could come in and make an impact. Maybe it's a Paul Reed from the Sixers (I know many here would love it) or someone else like that.

[FinnTheHuman]

Ok after Bogut said in an interview that Simmons' behavior issues during practice happened on the Australian national team too, I think I'm suddenly over him. I thought he was a passable professional outside of this situation with Philly, but I no longer believe that.

Not working your hardest is one thing and I would be fine with that because Simmons is a 6' 10'' super-athletic specimen who doesn't have to work his hardest to be an above average starter, but you can't have a guy pulling crap like phone in his pocket, it just erodes the morale of the whole squad.

https://www.news.com.au/sport/american-sports/nba/andrew-bogut-weighs-in-on-ugly-ben-simmons-situation/news-story/e04c718f30f4686deb4171954d21c3c7

"It’s not good for either party, in my opinion. Ben’s side of things, training with your phone in your pocket, not being glued in to what’s going on.

Unfortunately, he has form doing these kinds of things; we experienced it with the national team.

There’s not going to be too much sympathy for him, but hopefully they can sort it out and both parties can have something positive to come out of it".

[TheProdigy]

Ok after Bogut said in an interview that Simmons' behavior issues during practice happened on the Australian national team too, I think I'm suddenly over him. I thought he was a passable professional outside of this situation with Philly, but I no longer believe that.

Not working your hardest is one thing and I would be fine with that because Simmons is a 6' 10'' super-athletic specimen who doesn't have to work his hardest to be an above average starter, but you can't have a guy pulling crap like phone in his pocket, it just erodes the morale of the whole squad.

https://www.news.com.au/sport/american-sports/nba/andrew-bogut-weighs-in-on-ugly-ben-simmons-situation/news-story/e04c718f30f4686deb4171954d21c3c7

"It’s not good for either party, in my opinion. Ben’s side of things, training with your phone in your pocket, not being glued in to what’s going on.

Unfortunately, he has form doing these kinds of things; we experienced it with the national team.

There’s not going to be too much sympathy for him, but hopefully they can sort it out and both parties can have something positive to come out of it".

I was previously intrigued by Simmons but I'm jumping off that train and not looking back.

He's too difficult to build a roster around and hasn't improved since he entered the league. We can plainly see his passive aggressive behavior to force his way out with 4 years left on his contract which is arguably worse than what Butler did. There's just too much risk to be paying him a max contract.

[Baseline81]

Read on Twitter

[Krapinsky]

Man what are the 76ers doing? Simmons will be back playing in Australia at this rate.

[KGdaBom]

Read on Twitter

Will he be getting paid during this undetermined amount of time is the question. If his heart isn't in it, that isn't something he can control.

[winforlose]

Philly fleeced the wolves for JB because of general soreness. Roco was a great player, Saric was decent, Bayless was timely but on a doomed season and a second turned into a decent player (Nowell I believe.) That said, we paid a lot more than we recovered because of general soreness. Now Philly gets to enjoy the same experience with Simmons. Couldn’t of happened to a nicer bunch of A*******

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/ben-simmons-ditches-sixers-workout-193406995.html

[FinnTheHuman]

Ok after Bogut said in an interview that Simmons' behavior issues during practice happened on the Australian national team too, I think I'm suddenly over him. I thought he was a passable professional outside of this situation with Philly, but I no longer believe that.

Not working your hardest is one thing and I would be fine with that because Simmons is a 6' 10'' super-athletic specimen who doesn't have to work his hardest to be an above average starter, but you can't have a guy pulling crap like phone in his pocket, it just erodes the morale of the whole squad.

https://www.news.com.au/sport/american-sports/nba/andrew-bogut-weighs-in-on-ugly-ben-simmons-situation/news-story/e04c718f30f4686deb4171954d21c3c7

"It’s not good for either party, in my opinion. Ben’s side of things, training with your phone in your pocket, not being glued in to what’s going on.

Unfortunately, he has form doing these kinds of things; we experienced it with the national team.

There’s not going to be too much sympathy for him, but hopefully they can sort it out and both parties can have something positive to come out of it".

I was previously intrigued by Simmons but I'm jumping off that train and not looking back.

He's too difficult to build a roster around and hasn't improved since he entered the league. We can plainly see his passive aggressive behavior to force his way out with 4 years left on his contract which is arguably worse than what Butler did. There's just too much risk to be paying him a max contract.

To me, Simmons without the character questions is absolutely worth the contract he's getting, and the only teams he doesn't fit on basketball-wise are the teams with a key player doing the same thing he does, probably only Lebron, Giannis and Draymond. He fits on all the other teams and makes them better by being on their starting lineups. So I don't agree with anybody having doubts about what he brings strictly on court.

This Bogut interview reveals to me for the 1st time that this is not his 1st time acting like this, meaning there's a likely pattern that's gonna repeat itself wherever he ends up, and which makes it impossible to make it work with him imo. Exactly this sentence: "Unfortunately, he has form doing these kinds of things; we experienced it with the national team." killed my Simmons dream.

[Mattya]

I’d still trade for Simmons, I’m just hoping Morey keeps tanking his value.

[King Malta]

Ok after Bogut said in an interview that Simmons' behavior issues during practice happened on the Australian national team too, I think I'm suddenly over him. I thought he was a passable professional outside of this situation with Philly, but I no longer believe that.

Not working your hardest is one thing and I would be fine with that because Simmons is a 6' 10'' super-athletic specimen who doesn't have to work his hardest to be an above average starter, but you can't have a guy pulling crap like phone in his pocket, it just erodes the morale of the whole squad.

I was previously intrigued by Simmons but I'm jumping off that train and not looking back.

He's too difficult to build a roster around and hasn't improved since he entered the league. We can plainly see his passive aggressive behavior to force his way out with 4 years left on his contract which is arguably worse than what Butler did. There's just too much risk to be paying him a max contract.

To me, Simmons without the character questions is absolutely worth the contract he's getting, and the only teams he doesn't fit on basketball-wise are the teams with a key player doing the same thing he does, probably only Lebron, Giannis and Draymond. He fits on all the other teams and makes them better by being on their starting lineups. So I don't agree with anybody having doubts about what he brings strictly on court.

This Bogut interview reveals to me for the 1st time that this is not his 1st time acting like this, meaning there's a likely pattern that's gonna repeat itself wherever he ends up, and which makes it impossible to make it work with him imo. Exactly this sentence: "Unfortunately, he has form doing these kinds of things; we experienced it with the national team." killed my Simmons dream.

Australian Basketball has a pretty sketchy relationship with Ben Simmons. I haven't heart Bogut's quotes in context but he might be referring to the fact that Simmons has committed to the national team several times only to pull out at a later date.

I'm starting to get cold feet on a Simmons trade too tbh, at least one that commands any real value going out anyway. Let Philly sleep in the bed they made.

[D1SGRUNTL3D]

I’d still trade for Simmons, I’m just hoping Morey keeps tanking his value.

There’s really not anything I’d even consider offering that involved more than a bag of garbage from section 8 at target center.


This dude is toxic. And he can’t shoot so he’ll be a liability in the fourth qtr of important games. Phillys board is hilarious. One guy said he suppose he’d accept dlo/Beas and mcdaniels. That was probably the offer in July.

[jpatrick]

It’s like people completely forget LSU Simmons. He didn’t give on bleep about winning that season. Put up stats but was a horrible defender and the team was actually better the year before he came and after he left than when he was actually there.

That said, outside of his playoff implosions, he’s been a great NBA player so far. Unique and definitely a tough fit for some teams but highly impactful. I would trade for him still. You win with stars. You combine Ant, Simmons, and Towns, I think you’re a top four seed in the West.