Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 6

[FlyingArrow]

Sexton - would be a lovely sixth man, but as a starter he is just toooo small, and I am a pretty big Sexton fan. In a Simmons trade elsewhere, maybe Sexton becomes your target in a second trade or three way? I don't see a fit otherwise.

Agreed. Which kind of stinks, because Sexton looks like the best 'gettable' player right now. But I don't want to see him and Maxey playing together, and we already have Maxey locked up for a long time and a lot cheaper, and on a trajectory to be as good as Sexton very soon. With enough draft capital from Cleveland, and with us taking Love off their hands, this could still happen, though. But seems unlikely.

Spurs collection of guys like Murray, White, Johnson and Vassal - they aren't giving them all, and while a lot of nice players, they don't seem to track with the Sixer's needs/desires. I do consider the Spurs the backup package if Morey ever gets to the point of simply needing to move Simmons for a highly serviceable return.

Toronto - Anunoboy would be a huge upgrade on Danny Green, might make Thybulle available, provides that large wing D and 3 at a high level with possibly more to give. The entire team had a rough night yesterday, seemed to be pressing. Anunoboy and Van Fleet fits a lot of needs, if they are ever made available together. Not a perfect fit as neither is a true creator, but would leave you a second trade away from something good. Aninuboy and Dragic just isn't enough.

I don't see a difference maker there at all. It would be worth waiting 2 years before taking one of those packages.

CJ McCollum plus a young wing and how many draft picks? That is the question, how much is his being significantly older and heading towards a possibly injury prone part of his career worth in draft picks. McCollum is not a superstar, but is an impact player, still there has to be an offset for age in additional compensation.

There might be enough draft capital to offset a CJ/Ben trade, but I don't think Portland would offer it. And CJ is a very short-term bet.

Kings are going small this year. It won't go well for long. Hield and Bagley are incredibly available, but can you get Tyrese Hallburton to center that package. Davion Mitchell is not nearly enough, and Fox is untouchable.

Fox is untouchable until he's not, and he seems like the difference-maker that is most likely to shake loose for us. I don't think Halliburton is there yet, but might get there. Of course all the fans will say he's untouchable as soon as he does reach that level. Many say he's already untouchable. As it stands now, I don't think Morey would consider Halliburton as a viable target in a Ben trade, so moot point.

Minnesota, just no. DLo had weak +/- last night as usual compared to his teammates and has never been one of those great chemistry guys either. Unless some third team really wants him, I just don't see anything there. They aren't trading Edwards. The Spurs deal would be better.

I still think Edwards is a possibility. Just let the Wolves lose enough that they want an upgrade. Or let Ben's friends complain loudly enough.

Surprise team? New Orleans, he seems a terrible fit there, but they are making lots of terrible moves, so who knows.

Brandon Ingram as the last option.


Based on Morey's latest interview and the fact that Beal and Dame are seemingly off the table, I think that's the list:

* Fox
* Anthony Edwards
* Brandon Ingram
* Halliburton but not right now. Morey says no, but Halliburton could play his way up to 'difference-maker' status.
* CJ (Portland says no to the required additional draft picks)
* Sexton (Cleveland says no to the required additional draft picks)
*** wildcard

Nothing's coming loose from Chicago/Lavine. The Spurs' packages, and the Sacramento/Minneapolis/Toronto non-star packages are all DOA with Morey.

Obviously something has to happen to shake things up before any trade happens. Another team losing a lot and needing to shake things up. Or Ben playing and confirming that he still can play. Or someone else getting as disgruntled as Ben. Something.

[Kobblehead]

When is that fabled mystery team going to unveil themselves?

[FlyingArrow]

When is that fabled mystery team going to unveil themselves?

I suspect that was just a CYA from the reporter.

[ExplosionsInDaSky]

Again, I can't be mad at Morey in the slightest because at this point, I truly feel that getting rid of Ben and his newfound mental health/not mentally ready issues is in fact addition by subtraction. So if the return ends up being Fred Van Vleet and OG Anunoby, I won't necessarily love it, but I will look at is as "hey, we're getting FVV and OG for a guy that refuses to play for us.

[AaronB]

Watch on YouTube

If someone wants to hear the entire interview. He double downs harder than what the tweets posted reflects.

I find 1 thing interesting about this video:

The price does not seem to be CJ plus 6 pick/swaps and is now just a CJ-like player.

With this realization, I think that a resolution now becomes possible.

[KramerDSP]

I think FVV+OG could give us a shot at being one of those one-off teams like the Pistons and the Mavs that unexpectedly win it all.

[Skates]

I think Minnesota is more likely to trade KAT than Edwards at some point, More expensive, older, already hinting he might want to leave. Minnesota is very used to that scenario and Edwards is heading toward the league's most valuable archetype as a big, high scoring, creating wing and on a rookie deal.

If Fox becomes available it is because we missed cashing in on Haliburton before his leap is made. Hali is the one guard out there that has the kind of size and shooting that would really fit well with Maxey and Curry.

CJ and enough picks, that seems the most likely outcome at this point. CJ is younger than Dame, though I think Dame has more staying power (and of course, way more talent) and a three year deal, gives the best chance to win more now, though I don't favor a CJ move as a first line choice.

For the Sixers' possible throw ins, Springer we can still claim is a first rounder, because I don't think that lasts long, or Shake, if we need to sweeten any pot a bit in any deal.

[FlyingArrow]

I think Minnesota is more likely to trade KAT than Edwards at some point, More expensive, older, already hinting he might want to leave. Minnesota is very used to that scenario and Edwards is heading toward the league's most valuable archetype as a big, high scoring, creating wing and on a rookie deal.

If Fox becomes available it is because we missed cashing in on Haliburton before his leap is made. Hali is the one guard out there that has the kind of size and shooting that would really fit well with Maxey and Curry.

CJ and enough picks, that seems the most likely outcome at this point. CJ is younger than Dame, though I think Dame has more staying power (and of course, way more talent) and a three year deal, gives the best chance to win more now, though I don't favor a CJ move as a first line choice.

For the Sixers' possible throw ins, Springer we can still claim is a first rounder, because I don't think that lasts long, or Shake, if we need to sweeten any pot a bit in any deal.

KAT doesn't fit here, but he is the type of difference maker we'd need. That would have to be a 3-team trade, but who wants KAT that has something we want?

[FireMorey]

Morey hasn't done the most important part of his job, but I can tell you why people aren't on Morey yet-

1. The GMs in the past few years have been terrible in comparison. All have cost the Sixers major assets. Morey might do the same, but most people are reactionary (including me) and waiting to see what happens with Simmons before saying he did the same. I don't think it's fair until the move is made. Kinda like how people were saying the Bucks didn't give Giannis a chance to win and he should bolt before last season happened.

2. Morey took the team from 6th in the East to 1st without giving up major assets. Not the goal, but not sure how you cannot see that as a positive.

3.I feel he added the a good group of young players, vets without any bad contracts.

His legacy will rest on this Simmons trade and his ability to contend for a championship with Embiid. It could very poorly, but based on 1-3 and him only having been here one year, people arent going to run him our of town yet.

Ignore the people that blindly praise him if it bothers you. Honestly, I feel like most people on here are somewhere in the middle with their love/hate of Morey.

Did Morey take them 6th to 1st or did Embiid? Morey adding Curry helped, but how much of that 1 seed can truly be accredited to Morey? Embiid was the best player in the league all season and Doc Rivers was hired before Morey got there. Was Seth Curry, Dwight Howard, Maxey truly the difference from 6 to 1? Or was it Embiid and Harris stepping up their games more than anything else?

Ignore #2, but people (including me) could argue that replacing Horford/Richardson with Curry/Green did have an impact. Not some genius move though and I agree Embiid is the main reason why they were so good, so let's disregard this.

But if you're wondering why people aren't in the fire Morey train yet, there's still #1 and #3 and not sure many people are going to see going from having their worst season to best season as a negative on him.

Again, the Simmons situation will greatly shape his legacy. Right now it looks bad, again I'm going to be reactionary since I don't have a crystal ball. If it goes bad, he will ran out of town.

I’m not saying people have to be on the fire Morey train, just admit he handled the situation poorly, which it doesn’t seem people are even willing to go there yet. I at least hope if this saga ends with them trading him for peanuts, that people will finally admit he did a poor job with this. And I think you’d have to admit done a poor job overall, since this was far and away the most important situation he inherited when he came to the Sixers, and if screw up your most important aspect of your roster, I don’t know how it could be spun that he’s done a good job.

[Mik317]

again you can't really judge how he handled this situation until its over.

also while yeah last year ended poorly, it still was the best year this franchise has had since 01. To say he did a poor job so far is nuts IMO. I am not even Team Morey is the goat like some but he did a fine job with what he had and it again lead to the best season the team has had in forvever.....and even if you place most of that on Embiid...considering the last two GMs basiclaly were alienating the guy; Morey still gets credit for that lol.

Look he **** up this trade I am sure most will be on his ass.

[the_process]

I think if Morey considers Haliburton not enough for Simmons, it is a mistake. Likewise with FVV and Anunoby.

I understand not being ecstatic about a Spurs package, but still personally feel it gives you enough upside to get in the game should a star player shake free somewhere.

Morey can talk about Simmons having been a coaches pick to the AS game 3 times, but that happened before any of this situation did. And if Morey thinks this situation doesn’t bring Ben’s value way down… he’s wrong.

[eyeatoma]

Reading the thread, I think a lot of people still view Ben Simmons as the Sixers' last ditch means to acquire Embiid the co-superstar he needs to win a title. I don't think that logic is wrong. It least it wasn't wrong. Ben Simmons was that, about 9 months ago. But two things to that:

1. Morey should have thought about that when he didn't offer Maxey and 3 picks and 3 swaps(in addition to Simmons) for Harden.

2. Simmons isn't that guy anymore. He lost that kind of value. So there's really only two ways the Sixers can go. They can either admit they missed their window to acquire that co-superstar for Embiid because they really have nothing to trade for one now and no cap room and just build the best roster possible and hope they get lucky with other better teams getting injuries and stuff like that.

Or they can hope some superstar in the offseason demands to go to the Sixers in a sign and trade and exploit that angle.

But I think the reason Sixers fans are so adamant about holding on to ben is because of the former. It's painful for fans to admit that the Sixers championship window in all likelihood is done, because they have no way of trading for that superstar on the perimeter Embiid needs now. Not guaranteed, but in all likelihood. Hanging on to Ben is kind of akin to family keeping someone on life support that's brain dead hoping one day they spring back to life. Once you let go, it's over. But this is why I emotionally checked out when the Sixers missed out on Harden. I knew that was going to be their last realistic chance to get Embiid the pairing he needed to win a title realistically. And once they missed that, I realized I spent all this time watching and support the process years for nothing, but most of all, I felt for Embiid who likely will retire without a ring, unless he asks to be traded himself, because with his body his championship window is much smaller than most.

I'm not saying other people have to come to grips with that. If you want to hold out hope, hold out hope. You do you. But for me, the Sixers process championship window ended once Harden wasn't acquired, and now that I look at things just from a purely basketball perspective and taking emotion out of it, I think the next logical move is to just make the best basketball team you can and hope you get lucky. Because in this battle, Morey lost.

Sorry for the long diatribe

You keep on spewing this **** in point #1. Did you see the latest article (Kyle Neubeck) that showed that Ben was getting ready to go to Houston, and was looking at houses. I doubt that is happening, if Morey wasn't prepared to give anything and everything. The deal was done and Houston reneged. I know you find it hard to believe that Fertita fawked him or used him as leverage, but that is exactly what happened. You really think Morey was going to let Tyrese Maxey get in the way of grabbing Harden if he could?

[Skates]

I'm not sure where Morey handled anything poorly here. Simmons was on the whine train the moment the playoffs were over and his performance in the playoffs wasn't going to play well on the market early on. So his first targets were the Sixers package for the superstar, which is what was always intended, but no superstars hit the market, so you could not sell Simmons as part of the solution.

Simmons and Klutch seeming to act as his enabler to hold out with four years of a max deal left was a massive overplay. If you notice, the NBPA has pretty much stayed out of it and plainly told Rich Paul that no, Simmons can make this money up from a new team when he gets fined and game checks docked. The NBPA totally know the league and owners are behind Morey and the Sixers on this one and he is going to be the poster child for the league to look to start limiting the trade demand leverage of star players. Sixers are suffering for the league a bit in this one, but the players know this is not a good look, this is nothing like Harden or Davis or others on shorter term deals with higher end accomplishments asking out of a losing or about to rebuild situation. This is a guy that just signed a five year max last season and was on a top conference seed. Not a good look for the players at all.

The Morey is overplaying his hand thing is way overblown. No one really knows what he wants outside of Dame or Beal, the rest is all just throwing bullcrap against the wall to show he won't cave and giving the chance someone gives him a ludicrous package. GM's lie all the time, it's part of the trade game...and the Harden trade that never happened never was going to happen, the Rockets owner was seeing to that.

The worst move I see Morey having made was to not pick up a serviceable vet PG as a short term patch for the team this summer, and I don't love Springer as a first rounder so far. The rest of his moves have been sweet, efficient, high value to low cost ratio stuff. Not perfect, but Simmons created a lot of that on his own.

[eyeatoma]

Again, I can't be mad at Morey in the slightest because at this point, I truly feel that getting rid of Ben and his newfound mental health/not mentally ready issues is in fact addition by subtraction. So if the return ends up being Fred Van Vleet and OG Anunoby, I won't necessarily love it, but I will look at is as "hey, we're getting FVV and OG for a guy that refuses to play for us.

I doubt that was ever offered. Because if it was Morey would have taken that and run. OG could become Kawhi light. He is about to have a breakout year. We saw what FVV could do last year. No way Toronto is giving up that package.

[Skates]

I think Minnesota is more likely to trade KAT than Edwards at some point, More expensive, older, already hinting he might want to leave. Minnesota is very used to that scenario and Edwards is heading toward the league's most valuable archetype as a big, high scoring, creating wing and on a rookie deal.

If Fox becomes available it is because we missed cashing in on Haliburton before his leap is made. Hali is the one guard out there that has the kind of size and shooting that would really fit well with Maxey and Curry.

CJ and enough picks, that seems the most likely outcome at this point. CJ is younger than Dame, though I think Dame has more staying power (and of course, way more talent) and a three year deal, gives the best chance to win more now, though I don't favor a CJ move as a first line choice.

For the Sixers' possible throw ins, Springer we can still claim is a first rounder, because I don't think that lasts long, or Shake, if we need to sweeten any pot a bit in any deal.

KAT doesn't fit here, but he is the type of difference maker we'd need. That would have to be a 3-team trade, but who wants KAT that has something we want?

Most likely if KAT gets moved we are a minor part of the deal at best, Simmons does not figure to be a part of that.

[eyeatoma]

Did Morey take them 6th to 1st or did Embiid? Morey adding Curry helped, but how much of that 1 seed can truly be accredited to Morey? Embiid was the best player in the league all season and Doc Rivers was hired before Morey got there. Was Seth Curry, Dwight Howard, Maxey truly the difference from 6 to 1? Or was it Embiid and Harris stepping up their games more than anything else?

Ignore #2, but people (including me) could argue that replacing Horford/Richardson with Curry/Green did have an impact. Not some genius move though and I agree Embiid is the main reason why they were so good, so let's disregard this.

But if you're wondering why people aren't in the fire Morey train yet, there's still #1 and #3 and not sure many people are going to see going from having their worst season to best season as a negative on him.

Again, the Simmons situation will greatly shape his legacy. Right now it looks bad, again I'm going to be reactionary since I don't have a crystal ball. If it goes bad, he will ran out of town.

I’m not saying people have to be on the fire Morey train, just admit he handled the situation poorly, which it doesn’t seem people are even willing to go there yet. I at least hope if this saga ends with them trading him for peanuts, that people will finally admit he did a poor job with this. And I think you’d have to admit done a poor job overall, since this was far and away the most important situation he inherited when he came to the Sixers, and if screw up your most important aspect of your roster, I don’t know how it could be spun that he’s done a good job.

Because you keep assuming something happened, where you can't factually back it up. There is more that actually states, that Morey was going to trade Ben, and Houston backed out at the last minute.

Can't really blame someone, if the other team is unwilling to trade with you.

[Bum Adebayo]

So if you don't trade a player that has a 4 years left on his contract, it's somehow your fault?
The only one who is in the wrong here is Bum Simmons, he can demand a trade yes, doesn't mean the team has to accept it, team doesn't have to do anything, it's him who has 4 years left to play for Sixers, he has a clause that says he has to play for the Sixers, Morey doesn't have any clause that says he is forced to trade a player with a contract.

[AaronB]

I would not blame anything that has happened up to the last week on Morey. When dealing with any personnel issue, one must always assume that the person will act in their own best self-interest.

Starting last week, it is very clear that Simmons is willing to go scorched earth to achieve what he wants. That is not a person acting in their own best self-interest.

At this point, anything above a simple mutual release is a win.

[FireMorey]

Reading the thread, I think a lot of people still view Ben Simmons as the Sixers' last ditch means to acquire Embiid the co-superstar he needs to win a title. I don't think that logic is wrong. It least it wasn't wrong. Ben Simmons was that, about 9 months ago. But two things to that:

1. Morey should have thought about that when he didn't offer Maxey and 3 picks and 3 swaps(in addition to Simmons) for Harden.

2. Simmons isn't that guy anymore. He lost that kind of value. So there's really only two ways the Sixers can go. They can either admit they missed their window to acquire that co-superstar for Embiid because they really have nothing to trade for one now and no cap room and just build the best roster possible and hope they get lucky with other better teams getting injuries and stuff like that.

Or they can hope some superstar in the offseason demands to go to the Sixers in a sign and trade and exploit that angle.

But I think the reason Sixers fans are so adamant about holding on to ben is because of the former. It's painful for fans to admit that the Sixers championship window in all likelihood is done, because they have no way of trading for that superstar on the perimeter Embiid needs now. Not guaranteed, but in all likelihood. Hanging on to Ben is kind of akin to family keeping someone on life support that's brain dead hoping one day they spring back to life. Once you let go, it's over. But this is why I emotionally checked out when the Sixers missed out on Harden. I knew that was going to be their last realistic chance to get Embiid the pairing he needed to win a title realistically. And once they missed that, I realized I spent all this time watching and support the process years for nothing, but most of all, I felt for Embiid who likely will retire without a ring, unless he asks to be traded himself, because with his body his championship window is much smaller than most.

I'm not saying other people have to come to grips with that. If you want to hold out hope, hold out hope. You do you. But for me, the Sixers process championship window ended once Harden wasn't acquired, and now that I look at things just from a purely basketball perspective and taking emotion out of it, I think the next logical move is to just make the best basketball team you can and hope you get lucky. Because in this battle, Morey lost.

Sorry for the long diatribe

You keep on spewing this **** in point #1. Did you see the latest article (Kyle Neubeck) that showed that Ben was getting ready to go to Houston, and was looking at houses. I doubt that is happening, if Morey wasn't prepared to give anything and everything. The deal was done and Houston reneged. I know you find it hard to believe that Fertita fawked him or used him as leverage, but that is exactly what happened. You really think Morey was going to let Tyrese Maxey get in the way of grabbing Harden if he could?

I think it happened because the Sixers were told they currently have the best offer and unless the Nets top it, they'll agree to a deal. And then the Nets topped it.

The Nets gave up 3 firsts and 4 swaps and Levert. I think the Nets preferred picks to Simmons because of the flexibility it offers and also they don't have to take on Simmons' contract. So, yes, I think for the Sixers to have beaten the Nets deal Morey would've had to have offered Simmons, Maxey 3 firsts, 4 swaps, and yes, I don't think he was willing to go there.

[Skates]

Again, I can't be mad at Morey in the slightest because at this point, I truly feel that getting rid of Ben and his newfound mental health/not mentally ready issues is in fact addition by subtraction. So if the return ends up being Fred Van Vleet and OG Anunoby, I won't necessarily love it, but I will look at is as "hey, we're getting FVV and OG for a guy that refuses to play for us.

I doubt that was ever offered. Because if it was Morey would have taken that and run. OG could become Kawhi light. He is about to have a breakout year. We saw what FVV could do last year. No way Toronto is giving up that package.

I really like OG, but we need a creator in that case. He replaces Simmons's defensive versatility while being able to shoot really well, but he gets a lot of assisted buckets and creates very few of his own. Van Fleet can be hunted in the playoffs, but is great with another creator. You are right, Toronto would not give that package up, if would be OG and Dragic, but then draft picks or a third team become essential because Dragic is a short term salary and position filler at best and OG is either ready to make a jump or about to plateau out, it could go 50/50, but even worst case, its a very high plateau. Our weakness at SF was shown pretty clearly last night, and teams with multiple big wings and no Simmons are going to crush us. Simmons has his faults, but he covered up a lot of team sins too.