2021-22 NBA Season Discussion

[eminence]

I still like Simmons the player quite a lot, and largely am not bothered by the entire thing from his end. Showing up to work with people who don't like or believe in you does not sound particularly fun.

[eminence]

Wright looks like he'll be a nice steady backup PG behind Trae, good pickup for them.

[Dr Positivity]

Reddish has all star potential

[falcolombardi]

draymond struggles when left alone with the ball reminds me why i am so low on his offense

being left wide open or have a teammate being doubled off you is not a good thingh for your team

i think the rareness of his skilleset and 2 man game with curry as a playmaking big overstates how valuable he is in the offensive end. he is the (post boston) Rajón rondo of playmaking bigs

a boring/low iq stretch big who does nothingh else but shot would likely be more valuable by giving curry spacing even if his game is less impressive

[Dr Positivity]

Like the Bledsoe trade for the Clippers, at least in the regular season.

[parsnips33]

Clippers looked really solid, definitely a team that's more than the sum of it's parts.

PG is so fluid for a player his size, I could definitely see him in the MVP conversation if Clips overperform relative to expectations.

[parsnips33]

draymond struggles when left alone with the ball reminds me why i am so low on his offense

being left wide open or have a teammate being doubled off you is not a good thingh for your team

i think the rareness of his skilleset and 2 man game with curry as a playmaking big overstates how valuable he is in the offensive end. he is the (post boston) Rajón rondo of playmaking bigs

a boring/low iq stretch big who does nothingh else but shot would likely be more valuable by giving curry spacing even if his game is less impressive

Definitely disagree. Replace Draymond with say Robert Covington and the offense gets considerably worse IMO, unless a Harden Rockets style system is put into place as well

[Texas Chuck]

Clippers looked really solid, definitely a team that's more than the sum of it's parts.

I admit to originally being skeptical of Ty Lue and not sure about the hire for LA. I mean when you coach Lebron it can be very difficult to know too much about the coach. But call me a believer. This guy knows how to use the players he is given and puts them consistently in positions to succeed.

He gets his guys to go hard too. When a team plays hard, plays smart, has some talent and a big payroll that's a great combo. If they could somehow get Kawhi back by the playoffs yikes.

[Texas Chuck]

draymond struggles when left alone with the ball reminds me why i am so low on his offense

being left wide open or have a teammate being doubled off you is not a good thingh for your team

i think the rareness of his skilleset and 2 man game with curry as a playmaking big overstates how valuable he is in the offensive end. he is the (post boston) Rajón rondo of playmaking bigs

a boring/low iq stretch big who does nothingh else but shot would likely be more valuable by giving curry spacing even if his game is less impressive

Definitely disagree. Replace Draymond with say Robert Covington and the offense gets considerably worse IMO, unless a Harden Rockets style system is put into place as well

Yeah I don't see how you replace Draymond with Davis Bertans and make the team better. Or Kelly Olynyk. Or Serge Ibaka.

Amazes me that we've seen Draymond this long and know about his historic impact stats even in minutes apart from Steph and still question his worth.

[falcolombardi]

draymond struggles when left alone with the ball reminds me why i am so low on his offense

being left wide open or have a teammate being doubled off you is not a good thingh for your team

i think the rareness of his skilleset and 2 man game with curry as a playmaking big overstates how valuable he is in the offensive end. he is the (post boston) Rajón rondo of playmaking bigs

a boring/low iq stretch big who does nothingh else but shot would likely be more valuable by giving curry spacing even if his game is less impressive

Definitely disagree. Replace Draymond with say Robert Covington and the offense gets considerably worse IMO, unless a Harden Rockets style system is put into place as well

Yeah I don't see how you replace Draymond with Davis Bertans and make the team better. Or Kelly Olynyk. Or Serge Ibaka.

Amazes me that we've seen Draymond this long and know about his historic impact stats even in minutes apart from Steph and still question his worth.

i am only questioning his offensive worth which i see as extremely situational and not a huge game changer even in perfect circunstances, specifically after his jump shot died post 2016

warriors offense was fairly mediocre (worse thsn mediocre actually) last year in spite of curry playing absolutely great offense

draymond is a player who can not punish you by driving and cannot punish you by shooting yet needs the ball in jis hands to be valuable in offemse, effectively making the whole warriors offense need to do a lot of work to make him useful that a stretch shooter stretching the defense would do passively just by being a scoring threat

he is both -low portability- offensively and not a big impact player anyway if you have a offense that works well with him

he is like rajon rondo post celtics, brillant passer whose actual impact is limited an awful lot by how little pressure he puts in the defense himself

i still see him as a plus offensively for this warriors team, but is a role player plus thst yes, i think someone like Kelly olynik could replicate (again, only offensively)

[Texas Chuck]

he is both -low portability- offensively and not a big impact player anyway if you have a offense that works well with him
f

If your argument is that his offensive value is somewhat situational I agree.

But if your argument is the Warriors should replace him with a dumb player who doesn't defend but can make open shots I couldn't disagree much more. And that seemed to be your original point.

I mean dismissing the guy is either 1a or 1b defensively in his generation--depending on one's view on Gobert's defense to focus on his offense seems like missing most of the point on Draymond.

He's an absolutely elite defender. His playmaking is gravy on top of that.

[DCasey91]

I still rate Green on the Warriors, it’s just that you’d need a better second option to offset his lowered offensive output. He does bring ranked defense and was arguably the best defender last year imo.

Green super enhances Curry and Curry offsets Green, perfect tandem pairing. Curry is that incredible as an offensive weapon.

Poole is used in the Curry role with great return. Bjelica was such an excellent pickup by them.

They should really go for it with/without Klay.

[falcolombardi]

he is both -low portability- offensively and not a big impact player anyway if you have a offense that works well with him
f

If your argument is that his offensive value is somewhat situational I agree.

But if your argument is the Warriors should replace him with a dumb player who doesn't defend but can make open shots I couldn't disagree much more. And that seemed to be your original point.

I mean dismissing the guy is either 1a or 1b defensively in his generation--depending on one's view on Gobert's defense to focus on his offense seems like missing most of the point on Draymond.

He's an absolutely elite defender. His playmaking is gravy on top of that.

i was talking exclusively about offense, his defense is obviously invaluable

[Doctor MJ]

draymond struggles when left alone with the ball reminds me why i am so low on his offense

being left wide open or have a teammate being doubled off you is not a good thingh for your team

i think the rareness of his skilleset and 2 man game with curry as a playmaking big overstates how valuable he is in the offensive end. he is the (post boston) Rajón rondo of playmaking bigs

a boring/low iq stretch big who does nothingh else but shot would likely be more valuable by giving curry spacing even if his game is less impressive

I'd point out that playmaking bigs are drastically more rare than playmaking guards, and that Green's playmaking doesn't require him to dominate the ball the way Rondo's did.

I'd also point out that real basketball is an inherently interactive game and thus it's important not to try to allocate credit to only one side of a great partnership. Since Green isn't a scorer, his ability to impact on offense is dependent on other scorers being on the court...but those scorers - while they are more independent in their ability to impact on offense - benefit greatly from Green's presence in a way that not many other players can benefit them.

I've used the term "epiphyte" to refer to players like Green. Classic example of an epiphyte in nature is an orchid growing on a tree.



The orchid needs the tree in a way the tree doesn't need the orchid, but that doesn't make the orchid any less beautiful.

[therealbig3]

Green excels in terms of reads and making the right play under pressure. That’s not to say he doesn’t commit stupid turnovers here and there, but while Curry certainly gives him a ton of space to work, it’s not actually that easy to make the right plays consistently in space, with a recovering defense putting pressure on you. It takes a special combination of ball handling, quickness, agility, and quick ACCURATE decision-making (the capitalized is key, lots of players can just make quick decisions on the fly…they’re not always the correct decisions though).

I do think Green’s regression as an outside shooter has certainly limited his offensive value compared to 2015-2017, but I still think he’s a pretty effective offensive player when surrounded with other good offensive players. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Curry plays worse without Green pretty consistently. And I don’t think Green is totally a product of Curry on the offensive end either.

[Doctor MJ]

I still rate Green on the Warriors, it’s just that you’d need a better second option to offset his lowered offensive output. He does bring ranked defense and was arguably the best defender last year imo.

Green super enhances Curry and Curry offsets Green, perfect tandem pairing. Curry is that incredible as an offensive weapon.

Poole is used in the Curry role with great return. Bjelica was such an excellent pickup by them.

They should really go for it with/without Klay.

Yup, and I think they made up their mind on this once Curry burned nuclear last spring after Wiseman (and Oubre) exited the stage.

The question now is what to do with Wiseman. The Warriors have looked great these first couple games...without Wiseman. The Warriors will need to be prepared to trade Wiseman quickly if he doesn't prove better at fitting in.

[MisterHibachi]

Read on Twitter

Early candidate for pass of the year

[Max123]

I am not sure there is a technically more sound big man defender than Evan Mobley and he is in his rookie season.

Only slightly exaggerating, of course. His contests seem to always be textbook and he reacts superbly well to drives.


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[MartinToVaught]

Clippers looked really solid, definitely a team that's more than the sum of it's parts.

PG is so fluid for a player his size, I could definitely see him in the MVP conversation if Clips overperform relative to expectations.

I said this on the Clippers board during the game: last year's playoff run was a godsend for this team/franchise. The Clippers of old would have given up after that first quarter from Steph, on the road, down three starters. But after all the adversity this team went through in the playoffs last year, nothing really phases them anymore. Lue is unflappable and the players have adopted his personality too.

That was a great game, too. Almost playoff intensity despite being the first game of the season. Too bad we didn't have Batum, I think we'd have pulled it out with him. But the Warriors look damn good this year too.

[falcolombardi]

did...did davis just fight howard?

when was the last time two teammates fought - in a game-?