Pat Williams Discussion - Out 4-6 Mo (late Feb to late April)

[WindyCityBorn]

Pat is still afraid to shoot, but he made two 3s. 8 points and 4 rebounds in 24 minutes as the 5th option is not bad production. When we brought Derozan in I knew that put Williams development on the back burner. He’s 20. I’m not concerned.

[VolumePoster]

Pat is still afraid to shoot, but he made two 3s. 8 points and 4 rebounds in 24 minutes as the 5th option is not bad production. When we brought Derozan in I knew that put Williams development on the back burner. He’s 20. I’m not concerned.

The threes are nice. But for him to really contribute he needs to hit the glass super hard, cut, run the floor, defend. All of which he has the physical ability to do. I’m not discouraged. Let’s keep trending up.

[kulaz3000]

Pat is still afraid to shoot, but he made two 3s. 8 points and 4 rebounds in 24 minutes as the 5th option is not bad production. When we brought Derozan in I knew that put Williams development on the back burner. He’s 20. I’m not concerned.

I agree. Things to remember, he is still getting into shape. Two, he is not going to limited touches, so his stats aren't always going to be gaudy. Plus, the way he plays and the way Green plays is so different, it's unfair to compare them because they are different players - which is a good thing for the Bulls, because we have players that can bring different things.

That said, Patrick is still too hesitant, similar to how he was as a rookie and he needs to shake it off and play more aggressively, even if he isn't buzzing around all over the court like Green. And above all, his defense needs to be a lot better, that needs to be his staple, and so far, he seems to be a step behind a little too often.

As I said in the game thread, I still prefer to keep Green off the bench because I love the energy he brings from there, but if Green continues to outplay Patrick, perhaps it's a good thing to have Pat off the bench to give him some burn against other bench players.

Patricks role with all the new additions was always going to be used as a utility player, so it's not like he is going to score 20 points often, but he still does need to play much better. While we are winning, I think coach is going to give him some rope to get into shape, but by around game 8 or so, we need to see a little more consistency from him.

[fleet]

Pat is still afraid to shoot, but he made two 3s. 8 points and 4 rebounds in 24 minutes as the 5th option is not bad production. When we brought Derozan in I knew that put Williams development on the back burner. He’s 20. I’m not concerned.

The threes are nice. But for him to really contribute he needs to hit the glass super hard, cut, run the floor, defend. All of which he has the physical ability to do. I’m not discouraged. Let’s keep trending up.

I have no earthly idea how Alize played at Pat’s age, but Alize shows the value of good instincts. More than anything else, Pat seems totally reactive as a player, with little instinctive feel for the game as opposed to Alize. That said, coaches seem to like playing Pat. Must be a reason and I would like it explained from a coach’s perspective. Pat has more game, more production, and will likely totally eclipse Alize by the time Pat is 25. That said, Alize was doing everything tonight Pat is supposed to be doing. Pat looks like he is still thinking rather than playing.

[R3AL1TY]

It looks like Pat will mostly have his comfort zone in the 3nD role rather than an alpha scoring type that we saw in summer league.

[logical_art]

Pat is still afraid to shoot, but he made two 3s. 8 points and 4 rebounds in 24 minutes as the 5th option is not bad production. When we brought Derozan in I knew that put Williams development on the back burner. He’s 20. I’m not concerned.

The threes are nice. But for him to really contribute he needs to hit the glass super hard, cut, run the floor, defend. All of which he has the physical ability to do. I’m not discouraged. Let’s keep trending up.

I have no earthly idea how Alize played at Pat’s age, but Alize shows the value of good instincts. More than anything else, Pat seems totally reactive as a player, with little instinctive feel for the game as opposed to Alize. That said, coaches seem to like playing Pat. Must be a reason and I would like it explained from a coach’s perspective. Pat has more game, more production, and will likely totally eclipse Alize by the time Pat is 25. That said, Alize was doing everything tonight Pat is supposed to be doing. Pat looks like he is still thinking rather than playing.

I see the difference to be less instincts and more hustle. Pat just floats around and plays like he doesn't really care. Alize on the other hand busts his ass every play.

[coldfish]

I just have to note that there is a ton more available to Pat if he hustled:
- He is sometimes the pick setter. He gets into it slow and comes out slow, guaranteeing that he is covered. If not, he would be a fantastic roll/pop guy.
- The team wants to run but Pat isn't one of the guys bursting down the court.
- Remember that cut by Caruso? That's there for Pat several times per game.
- Oh, and offensive rebounding

Pat could score 15 a game with his talent without having a single play run for him just by hustling more.

[CaPiTanAK]

He’s on a team now full of winners and ALL NBA Defense players. It’s up to him to elevate his training, his commitment, his energy, and his approach to the game by seeking guidance. Otherwise, he’s will be up on the trading block.

Oh, Lonzo Ball gives him tons of open looks. He needs to shoot that ball with a ray of openness.

[AshyLarrysDiaper]

He obviously isn’t the most confident offensive player, but motor is the issue imo. Javonte can’t help but get involved in the play. Pat has to see the play, process it, and make a decision to get in there.

I’m a bit worried about it. I don’t expect him to be refined in year 2, but you don’t want to see that stuck-in-mud quality at any age.

[TheFinishSniper]

Pat Williams dreams at night he wishes he was nowhere near as good as Javonte Green. Which is sad.

[sco]

Pat is ok. I see us comparing him to other young forwards around the league, I think we are underestimating the difficulty of being an offensive contributor when you are the 5th option. In retrospect, I sorta hate how his SL went now. It was helpful from a skill and confidence perspective, but I think it is hard to mental flip the switch back to being a low usage guy. His defense has never been great, not bad, just not great. I think he's pretty smart and needs to find a style of defense to be more impactful.

In contrast, Green is such a great athlete. Seemed like a throw-in to the Gafford deal. I liked what I saw last year in terms of his hustle, but I didn't say to myself, "this guys is Jimmy Butler level athlete". He was schooled in BOS watching guys like Smart and Brown, who I love.

I don't care if Pat is starting games, but unlike last season, this season isn't about developing young guys, and Green should be getting 24-26 MPG at the expense of Pat's minutes.

[Butler4thewin]

I think pat is still getting game conditioning and it’s gonna take a little longer I think his ankle is still bothering him a bit maybe after 4/5 games we see pat a lot more in the flow of his teammates

[CaPiTanAK]

I think pat is still getting game conditioning and it’s gonna take a little longer I think his ankle is still bothering him a bit maybe after 4/5 games we see pat a lot more in the flow of his teammates

I’ll buy the game conditioning. However, his ankle is now officially fully recovered, per my expert opinion.

[RagingBull316]

Giving Pat entitlement minutes isnt helping his development. He needs to learn in order to get minutes he needs to be active and hustling, not just floating around and barely jogging back and forth.

Billy has to make him earn minutes or else he is never going to live up to his potential.

Sent from my SM-G981U using RealGM mobile app

[Butler4thewin]

I think pat is still getting game conditioning and it’s gonna take a little longer I think his ankle is still bothering him a bit maybe after 4/5 games we see pat a lot more in the flow of his teammates

I’ll buy the game conditioning. However, his ankle is now officially fully recovered, per my expert opinion.

I remember him mentioning he felt it still during the post game interview in the first game and maybe second game don’t remember to well on that one but I think he came back before it was fully healed

[ChettheJet]

When Perdue and Gill talk about PW sitting down with a coach to watch film what I wish they get some old film from the 70's and have him watch what Bob Love used to do. At the same size Love wasn't what you see in a PF today but he could post up and drive to the basket, there was no 3pt line so he worked the mid range game with a high release jumpshot and he always took the best offensive forward on the other team.

[fleet]

We (many) underestimated how much a project that Pat represents. I now have unfortunately come around on his rebounding in that he lacks instincts and aggression to track them down. That doesn’t often get fixed if it can. I had posted earlier with coldfish how little feel he has in the PnR game. He has all the tools for all of it. IMO he has poor instincts for this game. Some folks say he has a poor motor, but to me it looks like he doesn’t process things very well on the court.

[Jcool0]

We (many) underestimated how much a project that Pat represents. I now have unfortunately come around on his rebounding in that he lacks instincts and aggression to track them down. That doesn’t often get fixed if it can. I had posted earlier with coldfish how little feel he has in the PnR game. He has all the tools for all of it. IMO he has poor instincts for this game. Some folks say he has a poor motor, but to me it looks like he doesn’t process things very well on the court.

That really became apparent with he play, pretty sure it was the Pelicans game, where he poked the ball away and just stood there staring at it for a second before reacting and it allowed the defender to recover and get it back.

[sco]

We (many) underestimated how much a project that Pat represents. I now have unfortunately come around on his rebounding in that he lacks instincts and aggression to track them down. That doesn’t often get fixed if it can. I had posted earlier with coldfish how little feel he has in the PnR game. He has all the tools for all of it. IMO he has poor instincts for this game. Some folks say he has a poor motor, but to me it looks like he doesn’t process things very well on the court.

That really became apparent with he play, pretty sure it was the Pelicans game, where he poked the ball away and just stood there staring at it for a second before reacting and it allowed the defender to recover and get it back.

I agree that he isn't aggressive.

Now to be fair regarding rebounds, on offense, he's the 5 option guy and largely relegated to hanging out near the 3pt line, which limits his rebounding opportunities. On defense, he's been guarding the opponent's #1 option, again, mainly on the perimeter.

[fleet]

We (many) underestimated how much a project that Pat represents. I now have unfortunately come around on his rebounding in that he lacks instincts and aggression to track them down. That doesn’t often get fixed if it can. I had posted earlier with coldfish how little feel he has in the PnR game. He has all the tools for all of it. IMO he has poor instincts for this game. Some folks say he has a poor motor, but to me it looks like he doesn’t process things very well on the court.

That really became apparent with he play, pretty sure it was the Pelicans game, where he poked the ball away and just stood there staring at it for a second before reacting and it allowed the defender to recover and get it back.

Some players fail the eyeball test and we can’t pin down exactly why they do. They just do. Pat doesn’t read and anticipate things well in order to act accordingly imo. Alize is the opposite. If Alize had Pat’s body, oh my gosh. The hope we have is that Alize didn’t have much of a career to this point either. Did he always look like a genius, or did he develop his mind. I don’t know.