2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation

[Slim Charless]

I think Bridges has been great - and this is why to me his contract was a priority. I wouldn't be surprised if he outplays it this year.

Payne is good value - 7m for a solid back up pg is fine and we know what he can do.

Shamet - slight overpay but flexible contract. Let's give him a minute to get accustomed to the team. Don't forget he is one of only a few new guys this year. Plus playing funny minutes behind our best p;layer. needs to find his niche.

DA - well, if its max or nothing, no harm in giving him a year to proves he's worth it. His defence is invaluable to us, but through three games he hasn't shown himself to be on that max level. If he improves from here - great, if he doesn't - great. Save bobby (or whoever owns the team by years end) some pennies and we still have a great defending, decently skilled centre.

If they don't know if they wanna max by the trade deadline, then trade him. Minnesota will be **** again by them in sure. Karl-Anthony Towns, come on down!

They are not gonna trade Towns for Ayton...and we won't include another core guy to make it worth it for them. Maybe a 3 way for Jarrett Allen and a pick or something, but we'd need to send more salary out...maybe Saric.

If they start sucking (good chance) and he asks out cause he's over it (good chance) playing in a warm weather city with his bestie Booker while catching lob passes from CP3 could (will) be at the top of the list.

Only thing is he has a lot of years left so Minny won't feel pushed to make that move. Especially, seeing how this Simmons thing is working out for Ben.

I'd still rather we just resign Ayton.

[bwgood77]

Bridges has already shown he is well worth his new contract. The other guy not so much. So far he is statistically having career-worst numbers in every single category other than steals. He's earning every penny of that next contract he was hoping to get to. His defense has been really bad too.

Shamet or Payne? Those are the only two other new contracts. We've also only played 3 games and Payne only 2. I can understand Shamet as he is paid a lot of what he does. Ayton's raw stats are not great but he's played solid D so far and has been worth the $12 million he's making this year.

Well DA is the 14th highest-paid center in the league right now. For all centers he is 30th in points, 22nd in rebounds, 24th in assists, 31st in blocks, 20th in FG%, 42nd in FG%, 31st in FT attempts, 37th in FT percentage, 17th in steals, and 50th in true shooting percentage. He has the 9th worst defensive rating for all centers and 6th worst defensive win share. He hasn't played well on either end of the court. He's certainly not earning his paycheck under his current contract and thank goodness James Jones or Sarver didn't pay him a 5-year maximum.

Two words. Sample size.

Plus, you are probably looking at crappy b-ref counting stats where Drtg depends on how many points the team gives up. He's played well on defense against who he has played. He boxed out Nurkic well on defensive boards and our team got most of the missed shot rebounds. He rebounded against the big Lakers when that wouldn't work. We have a bigger body of work from last year where he was near the top in many categories outside of points. His efficiency will likely drop because he is trying more 3s, but he was highly efficient last year and provided great defense in the playoffs against some top 10 players. He couldn't stop everyone but for a 22 year old he did a damn good job. With a guy like him you are talking upside.

But I didn't want to give him a max either. Negotiating is fine.

I mean where do our real max or near max guys rank in all those against ALL players in their categories, since you obviously used non qualifying guys (like guys who have taken one shot)? I imagine they rank about the same in DRTG, efficiency, steals, TS%, rebounds, blocks. Take a look at Booker against all SGs and see where he comes out. Paul too...probably a little better than Book but if we are talking where they rank against everyone after 3 games and comparing that to salary, try it for them.

No, don't, because after 3 games it's pointless. You just wasted a lot of time.

[bwgood77]

If they don't know if they wanna max by the trade deadline, then trade him. Minnesota will be **** again by them in sure. Karl-Anthony Towns, come on down!

They are not gonna trade Towns for Ayton...and we won't include another core guy to make it worth it for them. Maybe a 3 way for Jarrett Allen and a pick or something, but we'd need to send more salary out...maybe Saric.

If they start sucking (good chance) and he asks out cause he's over it (good chance) playing in a warm weather city with his bestie Booker while catching lob passes from CP3 could (will) be at the top of the list.

Only thing is he has a lot of years left so Minny won't feel pushed to make that move. Especially, seeing how this Simmons thing is working out for Ben.

I'd still rather we just resign Ayton.

OK, IF he wants out, but they've sucked worse AND he just started the 3rd year of a 5 year max with no options, and he is finally playing with one of his best friends and a young rookie rising star. He likely wouldn't ask out for 2 years. He's not going to ask out before the trade deadline...and typically players do not ask out until they are in the second to last year of their contract, near the deadline.

I think we should worry about our team.

[Mulhollanddrive]

Ayton is the best fit as long as Paul is a top 20 player.

[RaisingArizona]

Would a trade with NY make any sense. Randle and Robinson or something like that? I'd rather he stay but this may not end well.

[Mulhollanddrive]

No other team can beat our 4 year max so we're in the box seat.

[Slim Charless]

Would a trade with NY make any sense. Randle and Robinson or something like that? I'd rather he stay but this may not end well.

NYC can just patiently wait till the summer and offer him a short term deal-that we match and then make a play after that deal is up.

[Mulhollanddrive]

And we'd end up with a 3 year max that we wanted in the first place.

I've been behind a team friendly or no deal approach this off-season and the strategy is tracking well to me.

This board would have had a meltdown after his 3 games and locked in for $170m.

[bwgood77]

Would a trade with NY make any sense. Randle and Robinson or something like that? I'd rather he stay but this may not end well.

There is a thread on the NY board asking if people would trade Robinson for Ayton and most would. Some wouldn't. Randle is an all star and their best player.

[Jdiddy701]

Would a trade with NY make any sense. Randle and Robinson or something like that? I'd rather he stay but this may not end well.

I think this board would be surprised with how little trade value Ayton has around the league. I can’t see a team giving up much for him.

If KAT wanted out, Suns would probably have to give up Cam Johnson/2-3 first rounds with Ayton at minimum. I would do it. KAT would take our team to whole another level. Suns desperately need a big that can create his own shots. We would take a hit on defense but am confident Monty can get KAT to be a better defender. Suns offense would be insanely good.


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[Saberestar]

Would a trade with NY make any sense. Randle and Robinson or something like that? I'd rather he stay but this may not end well.

Randle AND Robinson? Both? No way they trade Randle alone for Ayton.

[Slim Charless]

A bit off topic, But if you had to choose between the two, Who'd you prefer?

Bezos. I want a HUGE Suns Amazon store.

That would be awesome!
Being able to get all the latest suns gear, etc on my prime account. Plus luxury tax for him would be an absolute joke proposition.

Bumping this on the eve of whatever ESPN is supposed to have. There's no way it'd be Bezos or Musk.

Larry Ellison of Oracle has been trying to buy an NBA team for years now. He tried (and failed) with Houston, New Orleans and Golden State. I'd bet that's who gets 1st swing if this actually happens.

He's also worth roughly 130 Billion dollars.....slightly more than Booby Sarver.

Guarantee that's probably our new guy if the league forces Sarver to sell.

[RaisingArizona]

Would a trade with NY make any sense. Randle and Robinson or something like that? I'd rather he stay but this may not end well.

Randle AND Robinson? Both? No way they trade Randle alone for Ayton.

I don't really know trade values at all. I was just throwing it out there. Thanks for letting me know.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Would a trade with NY make any sense. Randle and Robinson or something like that? I'd rather he stay but this may not end well.

IF it comes to that, Which I hope that it doesn't. But IF it does, According to Knicks fans, Randle isn't on the table as they value him to highly. Their current offers have ranged mostly around 2 possibilities really.

1- Mitchell Robinson/ RJ Barrett/ Quickly/ and 2 firsts.

OR

2- Mitchell Robinson/ Toppin/ Quickly/ and two firsts.
I personally would strongly consider that offer IF Ayton were to want out as Robinson would come super cheap ( possibly around 5-7 million)? Tops. And has elite defensive potential as a mobile rim runner ( cheaper version of Jarrett Allen). We could then look to flip Toppin or Barrett to a team for a solid vet 4. Maybe in a package to Houston for Wood ? Or maybe flip Barrett to the Raptors ( hometown hero deal) for Boucher and Flynn? Or some other deal??

For the picks, I'd keep choose the Charlotte 2022 first, And Dallas 2023 first. And with that pick I'm again targeting one of:

1- Yannick Zsosa ( Clint Capela with advanced offense).

2- Patrick Baldwin ( Michael Porter Jr/ bargain Durant).

3- Damion Collins ( Anthony Davis 2.0). All premiere 4/5s. Then with our 2nd round pick, I'm looking for Aytons' replacement.

1-
Then with our 2nd round pick, I'm looking at
1- Omour Ballo.
2- Khalifa Diop.
3- Nfaly Dante.
Our frontcourt would be absolutely loaded. Or if we prefer and elite apprentice guard, We could use the Charlotte pick for Kennedy Chandler, JD Davison, or Iverson Molinar. Khristian Lander or Jeremy Roach would be very solid guards in the 2nd round too.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

I'm dismayed by this talk about trading Ayton. Do any of you really think trading Ayton would make us a better team? I find the idea laughable. Our defense would fall apart. We'd get crushed on the boards. The upside potential of this team would be crippled.

Y'all are planning a path to certain destruction: I guess, for the fun of it? Fortunately, I doubt anyone in this organization is so arrogant to think such ideas are worth entertaining. Ayton's a cornerstone of this franchise and he isn't going anywhere. If he goes, it'll only be a couple years before Mikal Bridges is carrying this franchise to 25 wins a year.

[Desertfox]

The Ayton situation is quite clear to me.

Imagine you are in a big company and there is a huge project coming up. You work hard and pull it off and then ask your boss for that promotion that all your coworkers are getting, but then he says there is no money for it. So you're disappointed but decide to put put in some extra effort anyways. Come the first quarter of the new year you go out there showing off some new skills, putting in the extra work, trying to show everyone you are ready for that promotion. But then your team lead comes over and tells you that you are doing too much, that that's not your job, that its someone else job to do that, go back to your cubicle and keep pounding out spreadsheets.

I don't care who you are, that **** is frikin depressing, and if it happened to me, I'd be looking for another job even if it meant a paycut. Ayton might be trying, but mentally it will affect him.

[bwgood77]

Would a trade with NY make any sense. Randle and Robinson or something like that? I'd rather he stay but this may not end well.

I think this board would be surprised with how little trade value Ayton has around the league. I can’t see a team giving up much for him.

If KAT wanted out, Suns would probably have to give up Cam Johnson/2-3 first rounds with Ayton at minimum. I would do it. KAT would take our team to whole another level. Suns desperately need a big that can create his own shots. We would take a hit on defense but am confident Monty can get KAT to be a better defender. Suns offense would be insanely good.

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I think a few teams might want him but with him wanting a pending max, I don't think we could get a lot in return...thus my Mitchell Robinson/Randle response.

It would definitely take Ayton, Cam and a first or two at minimum, but they would still prefer to keep him.

They won't trade Towns any time soon though.

[bwgood77]

I'm dismayed by this talk about trading Ayton. Do any of you really think trading Ayton would make us a better team? I find the idea laughable. Our defense would fall apart. We'd get crushed on the boards. The upside potential of this team would be crippled.

Y'all are planning a path to certain destruction: I guess, for the fun of it? Fortunately, I doubt anyone in this organization is so arrogant to think such ideas are worth entertaining. Ayton's a cornerstone of this franchise and he isn't going anywhere. If he goes, it'll only be a couple years before Mikal Bridges is carrying this franchise to 25 wins a year.

Yeah, I see Book gone or asking out if Ayton is traded once Paul is done and we are not a playoff team.

[bigfoot]

The Ayton situation is quite clear to me.

Imagine you are in a big company and there is a huge project coming up. You work hard and pull it off and then ask your boss for that promotion that all your coworkers are getting, but then he says there is no money for it. So you're disappointed but decide to put put in some extra effort anyways. Come the first quarter of the new year you go out there showing off some new skills, putting in the extra work, trying to show everyone you are ready for that promotion. But then your team lead comes over and tells you that you are doing too much, that that's not your job, that its someone else job to do that, go back to your cubicle and keep pounding out spreadsheets.

I don't care who you are, that **** is frikin depressing, and if it happened to me, I'd be looking for another job even if it meant a paycut. Ayton might be trying, but mentally it will affect him.

The real situation is more like this ... a 22-year-old goes to his boss and says "hey do you see companies XYZ and PQR are paying my same-age peers huge bucks. I want huge bucks too. I'll take nothing less than the huge bucks offered by those other companies." The boss explains to the 22-year old that his peers at company XYZ and PQR have won numerous industry awards. Mentoring the youngster the boss suggests areas he can improve his skills so that he can qualify for those awards and says we'll look at a promotion again in a year. The 22-year old goes off and pouts telling anyone who will listen that he's disappointed he didn't get his promotion.

[Mulhollanddrive]

or hes not worth the 5 year max and we didn't make a mistake and are going to get him on a better deal later.