Moderators: HerSports85, NoLayupRule, GONYK, Jeff Van Gully, dakomish23, Deeeez Knicks, mpharris36, j4remi
BugginOut wrote:
Honestly not going to get mad for RJ until he steps up on the offensive end. Need him to get into a rhythm if we want to beat the Sixers and Bulls
mpharris36 wrote:Deeeez Knicks wrote:If we progress little by little and establish ourselves as a legit winning playoff team then more players will want to come.
It wont be easy. That 2nd tier of eastern conference teams have made a jump along with us.
CHI is good
Charlotte is good
Miami is good
Curious, how would people feel if we have another playoff flub. Not saying this will be the case because I think we should be a tough out. But there are still a lot of question marks about this team translating and Randle/RJ especially in the post season.
A lot still relies on Derrick Rose...which is a dicey thing to rely on.
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BugginOut wrote:
Honestly not going to get mad for RJ until he steps up on the offensive end. Need him to get into a rhythm if we want to beat the Sixers and Bulls
BugginOut wrote:
Honestly not going to get mad for RJ until he steps up on the offensive end. Need him to get into a rhythm if we want to beat the Sixers and Bulls
GONYK wrote:BugginOut wrote:We really going to panic because we dropped one game.You can’t win every game and the team is still trying to get used to the new players and new roles.
The Hawks lost to the Cavs last night and you don’t see their fans saying they need to blow it up.
Good teams sometimes lose to bad teams it’s just the nature of the NBA, and this early in the season you don’t know where any team will end up.
I bet Bucks fans were on suicide-watch after we blew them out by 30 in our third game last season. They went on to win the championship.
Team just needs to regroup and focus on dominating against the Sixers and Bulls.
The only real takeaway from the last game was that the team was feeling itself too much, so they didn't feel like they needed to do the little things. Yea, we missed shots, but all of that was because our rhythm was off because we were getting outworked.
Let's hope they were disabused of that notion.
mpharris36 wrote:Deeeez Knicks wrote:If we progress little by little and establish ourselves as a legit winning playoff team then more players will want to come.
It wont be easy. That 2nd tier of eastern conference teams have made a jump along with us.
CHI is good
Charlotte is good
Miami is good
Curious, how would people feel if we have another playoff flub. Not saying this will be the case because I think we should be a tough out. But there are still a lot of question marks about this team translating and Randle/RJ especially in the post season.
A lot still relies on Derrick Rose...which is a dicey thing to rely on.
GONYK wrote:mpharris36 wrote:Deeeez Knicks wrote:If we progress little by little and establish ourselves as a legit winning playoff team then more players will want to come.
It wont be easy. That 2nd tier of eastern conference teams have made a jump along with us.
CHI is good
Charlotte is good
Miami is good
Curious, how would people feel if we have another playoff flub. Not saying this will be the case because I think we should be a tough out. But there are still a lot of question marks about this team translating and Randle/RJ especially in the post season.
A lot still relies on Derrick Rose...which is a dicey thing to rely on.
I feel like these are two separate questions that are being conflated:
1. How do you feel about the team as currently constructed?
2. How do you feel about the overall strategy?
1. The team as currently constructed is deep and more offensively dynamic than last year. It will relies on being the whole being better than the sum of its parts and is still not contending for a title due to the lack of a true #1.
2. The strategy overall is fine and is better than the alternative in both the short and longterm, IMO. The team's performance, as long as they are a competitive playoff team, has no bearing on the viability of the overall strategy.
BugginOut wrote:GONYK wrote:BugginOut wrote:We really going to panic because we dropped one game.
The Hawks lost to the Cavs last night and you don’t see their fans saying they need to blow it up.
Good teams sometimes lose to bad teams it’s just the nature of the NBA, and this early in the season you don’t know where any team will end up.
I bet Bucks fans were on suicide-watch after we blew them out by 30 in our third game last season. They went on to win the championship.
Team just needs to regroup and focus on dominating against the Sixers and Bulls.
The only real takeaway from the last game was that the team was feeling itself too much, so they didn't feel like they needed to do the little things. Yea, we missed shots, but all of that was because our rhythm was off because we were getting outworked.
Let's hope they were disabused of that notion.
Defense has been terrible and I agree we were feeling ourselves too much. Even Thibs was smiling a bit more to start the season. This game is a wake up call to show that we haven’t achieved sh*t yet. We won last season by playing gritty defense, just cause we got better offensively doesn’t mean we can let up.
Hate to point it out again, but the one weak spot on the defense has been Kemba and honestly right now I don’t like his smiling, laidback attitude. It seems as though the effort isn’t there. He almost cost us the Celtics game and he was a major reason why we blew this game.
It’s nice that Kemba is finally “home,” but the Knicks are trying to shed the label that we are the team that washed up stars come to in order to collect checks and experience NYC life. If he doesn’t pick up the effort the fan base will turn on him in a second.
mpharris36 wrote:GONYK wrote:mpharris36 wrote:
It wont be easy. That 2nd tier of eastern conference teams have made a jump along with us.
CHI is good
Charlotte is good
Miami is good
Curious, how would people feel if we have another playoff flub. Not saying this will be the case because I think we should be a tough out. But there are still a lot of question marks about this team translating and Randle/RJ especially in the post season.
A lot still relies on Derrick Rose...which is a dicey thing to rely on.
I feel like these are two separate questions that are being conflated:
1. How do you feel about the team as currently constructed?
2. How do you feel about the overall strategy?
1. The team as currently constructed is deep and more offensively dynamic than last year. It will relies on being the whole being better than the sum of its parts and is still not contending for a title due to the lack of a true #1.
2. The strategy overall is fine and is better than the alternative in both the short and longterm, IMO. The team's performance, as long as they are a competitive playoff team, has no bearing on the viability of the overall strategy.
I agree with parts and disagree with others.
The overall strategy does depend on some of the players. Like you said the team more relies on the sum of its parts then an individual player. But when a trade comes players like to be traded to a team that already has an established star.
For example if Randle gets shut down again in the post season I dopnt think people will look at him the same. Good player but if you can't get it done in the post season it wont look good. RJ needs to continue to make steps as well especially if he is going to be a sought after piece in a trade. It's why I didn't care as much about the post season results last year as much as how bad Randle looked.
Since we don't play guys like IQ/Obi/Grimes/McBride much its not like they can headline a deal either. Unless you are expecting a player to ask for the Knicks specifically and just force the team trading for that player to accept whatever we give them. Which I don't see as something you can specifically bank on.
Deeeez Knicks wrote:mpharris36 wrote:Deeeez Knicks wrote:If we progress little by little and establish ourselves as a legit winning playoff team then more players will want to come.
It wont be easy. That 2nd tier of eastern conference teams have made a jump along with us.
CHI is good
Charlotte is good
Miami is good
Curious, how would people feel if we have another playoff flub. Not saying this will be the case because I think we should be a tough out. But there are still a lot of question marks about this team translating and Randle/RJ especially in the post season.
A lot still relies on Derrick Rose...which is a dicey thing to rely on.
Yea, I dont know if we can get passed the first round. It might depend on the matchup. Hard to say in a vacuum what would be disappointing or not. If we get swept or out in 5 like we did last year that would be disappointing. If we at least put up a fight...not saying it wouldnt be disappointing either but in the grand scheme its not the worst thing.
Making the playoffs as a perenial team and building some excitement can be a step in the right direction. At least its in the back of players minds that they could be a missing piece. And hopefully Rose/WWW earn their money and can be good recruiters. Winning in NY as a Knick should be a huge selling point. No other place would be like this if you could win here.
robillionaire wrote:BugginOut wrote:
Honestly not going to get mad for RJ until he steps up on the offensive end. Need him to get into a rhythm if we want to beat the Sixers and Bulls
they didn't post the whole list, RJ is on it at #16 and Mitch is #24 on it
Herro is #14, I feel like he got snubbed. Also LaMelo should be #1
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2949682-nbas-24-under-24-rankings-who-follows-luka-tatum-in-next-gen-rankings
HarthorneWingo wrote:BugginOut wrote:GONYK wrote:
The only real takeaway from the last game was that the team was feeling itself too much, so they didn't feel like they needed to do the little things. Yea, we missed shots, but all of that was because our rhythm was off because we were getting outworked.
Let's hope they were disabused of that notion.
Defense has been terrible and I agree we were feeling ourselves too much. Even Thibs was smiling a bit more to start the season. This game is a wake up call to show that we haven’t achieved sh*t yet. We won last season by playing gritty defense, just cause we got better offensively doesn’t mean we can let up.
Hate to point it out again, but the one weak spot on the defense has been Kemba and honestly right now I don’t like his smiling, laidback attitude. It seems as though the effort isn’t there. He almost cost us the Celtics game and he was a major reason why we blew this game.
It’s nice that Kemba is finally “home,” but the Knicks are trying to shed the label that we are the team that washed up stars come to in order to collect checks and experience NYC life. If he doesn’t pick up the effort the fan base will turn on him in a second.
It’s a big problem and it’s not going away. We’re going to need to make a trade.
BugginOut wrote:GONYK wrote:BugginOut wrote:We really going to panic because we dropped one game.
The Hawks lost to the Cavs last night and you don’t see their fans saying they need to blow it up.
Good teams sometimes lose to bad teams it’s just the nature of the NBA, and this early in the season you don’t know where any team will end up.
I bet Bucks fans were on suicide-watch after we blew them out by 30 in our third game last season. They went on to win the championship.
Team just needs to regroup and focus on dominating against the Sixers and Bulls.
The only real takeaway from the last game was that the team was feeling itself too much, so they didn't feel like they needed to do the little things. Yea, we missed shots, but all of that was because our rhythm was off because we were getting outworked.
Let's hope they were disabused of that notion.
Defense has been terrible and I agree we were feeling ourselves too much. Even Thibs was smiling a bit more to start the season. This game is a wake up call to show that we haven’t achieved sh*t yet. We won last season by playing gritty defense, just cause we got better offensively doesn’t mean we can let up.
Hate to point it out again, but the one weak spot on the defense has been Kemba and honestly right now I don’t like his smiling, laidback attitude. It seems as though the effort isn’t there. He almost cost us the Celtics game and he was a major reason why we blew this game.
It’s nice that Kemba is finally “home,” but the Knicks are trying to shed the label that we are the team that washed up stars come to in order to collect checks and experience NYC life. If he doesn’t pick up the effort the fan base will turn on him in a second.
mpharris36 wrote:Deeeez Knicks wrote:mpharris36 wrote:
It wont be easy. That 2nd tier of eastern conference teams have made a jump along with us.
CHI is good
Charlotte is good
Miami is good
Curious, how would people feel if we have another playoff flub. Not saying this will be the case because I think we should be a tough out. But there are still a lot of question marks about this team translating and Randle/RJ especially in the post season.
A lot still relies on Derrick Rose...which is a dicey thing to rely on.
Yea, I dont know if we can get passed the first round. It might depend on the matchup. Hard to say in a vacuum what would be disappointing or not. If we get swept or out in 5 like we did last year that would be disappointing. If we at least put up a fight...not saying it wouldnt be disappointing either but in the grand scheme its not the worst thing.
Making the playoffs as a perenial team and building some excitement can be a step in the right direction. At least its in the back of players minds that they could be a missing piece. And hopefully Rose/WWW earn their money and can be good recruiters. Winning in NY as a Knick should be a huge selling point. No other place would be like this if you could win here.
I agree but that has been the case for a while. Even last year they were recruiting and still nothing this past trade deadline or offseason. I would like to stay patient with the approach its our only choice and they play a competitive brand of basketball which is nice as well.
But the leap of being where we are to actually acquiring that difference maker seems to be a bit harder even with a winning product and us being in NY then people might want to suggest.
mpharris36 wrote:Deeeez Knicks wrote:mpharris36 wrote:
It wont be easy. That 2nd tier of eastern conference teams have made a jump along with us.
CHI is good
Charlotte is good
Miami is good
Curious, how would people feel if we have another playoff flub. Not saying this will be the case because I think we should be a tough out. But there are still a lot of question marks about this team translating and Randle/RJ especially in the post season.
A lot still relies on Derrick Rose...which is a dicey thing to rely on.
Yea, I dont know if we can get passed the first round. It might depend on the matchup. Hard to say in a vacuum what would be disappointing or not. If we get swept or out in 5 like we did last year that would be disappointing. If we at least put up a fight...not saying it wouldnt be disappointing either but in the grand scheme its not the worst thing.
Making the playoffs as a perenial team and building some excitement can be a step in the right direction. At least its in the back of players minds that they could be a missing piece. And hopefully Rose/WWW earn their money and can be good recruiters. Winning in NY as a Knick should be a huge selling point. No other place would be like this if you could win here.
I agree but that has been the case for a while. Even last year they were recruiting and still nothing this past trade deadline or offseason. I would like to stay patient with the approach its our only choice and they play a competitive brand of basketball which is nice as well.
But the leap of being where we are to actually acquiring that difference maker seems to be a bit harder even with a winning product and us being in NY then people might want to suggest.
GONYK wrote:mpharris36 wrote:GONYK wrote:
I feel like these are two separate questions that are being conflated:
1. How do you feel about the team as currently constructed?
2. How do you feel about the overall strategy?
1. The team as currently constructed is deep and more offensively dynamic than last year. It will relies on being the whole being better than the sum of its parts and is still not contending for a title due to the lack of a true #1.
2. The strategy overall is fine and is better than the alternative in both the short and longterm, IMO. The team's performance, as long as they are a competitive playoff team, has no bearing on the viability of the overall strategy.
I agree with parts and disagree with others.
The overall strategy does depend on some of the players. Like you said the team more relies on the sum of its parts then an individual player. But when a trade comes players like to be traded to a team that already has an established star.
For example if Randle gets shut down again in the post season I dopnt think people will look at him the same. Good player but if you can't get it done in the post season it wont look good. RJ needs to continue to make steps as well especially if he is going to be a sought after piece in a trade. It's why I didn't care as much about the post season results last year as much as how bad Randle looked.
Agreed, but that is different from the overall strategy. Right now, we're no different than what Miami has been doing since Bron left. Just keep making the playoffs, drafting well, and being opportunistic.Since we don't play guys like IQ/Obi/Grimes/McBride much its not like they can headline a deal either. Unless you are expecting a player to ask for the Knicks specifically and just force the team trading for that player to accept whatever we give them. Which I don't see as something you can specifically bank on.
If these guys were headliners, they would be playing more.
Deeeez Knicks wrote:mpharris36 wrote:Deeeez Knicks wrote:
Yea, I dont know if we can get passed the first round. It might depend on the matchup. Hard to say in a vacuum what would be disappointing or not. If we get swept or out in 5 like we did last year that would be disappointing. If we at least put up a fight...not saying it wouldnt be disappointing either but in the grand scheme its not the worst thing.
Making the playoffs as a perenial team and building some excitement can be a step in the right direction. At least its in the back of players minds that they could be a missing piece. And hopefully Rose/WWW earn their money and can be good recruiters. Winning in NY as a Knick should be a huge selling point. No other place would be like this if you could win here.
I agree but that has been the case for a while. Even last year they were recruiting and still nothing this past trade deadline or offseason. I would like to stay patient with the approach its our only choice and they play a competitive brand of basketball which is nice as well.
But the leap of being where we are to actually acquiring that difference maker seems to be a bit harder even with a winning product and us being in NY then people might want to suggest.
There didn’t really seem to be any legit star players available this offseason. It’s kinda good that we laid off the Westbrook’s, etc and seem to be waiting for the right player. That is progress too.
The odds are probably stacked against us no matter the plan, but it’s good to see some type of progress. It def won’t be easy to pull off but at least we are in good position with some assets/picks and cap flexibility where we can make a move if it’s available. Basically putting ourselves in a position to get lucky. In the past being a bad / non-playoff team took us out of the running in a lot of cases
. But more talking about the Beal or Lillard types. Guys in bad situations that don't want to leave but NY and our FO was suppose to draw them to leave.