Pat Williams Discussion - Out 4-6 Mo (late Feb to late April)

[coldfish]

Any long salary the Bulls take on means lux tax for Jerry next year. They are going to want to minimize that. The trade assets going out will likely be Pat, Coby and the Portland 1st. Plus whatever filler is needed.

Say, Grant + Livers + Garza for Coby + Pat + DJJ + Portland 1st.

[Repeat 3-peat]

I just don't see it with Grant in terms of fit. He clearly wants to be a top scoring option, isn't that efficient and doesn't seem to like passing the basketball.

[Wingy]

Don't see why Toronto or Detroit wants PW/Coby, etc. for Siakam or Grant. They have some nice young pieces, and you need some strong vets around them to show them how it's done and not have some trash, losing culture where those young pieces learn bad habits, and get accustomed to losing. We're pipe dreaming if we think PW/Coby/DJJ and a pick are getting either of those guys.

For reference, see: Bulls, Chicago - late GarPax era.

[fleet]

Grant seems like a reach for me though. He doesn’t get is out of the East, doesn’t really solve the size problems. Would hate to use all our ammo on that one. The Bulls should wait for the right player to push his way toward the Bulls. We don’t need to do a deal just because we want to do a deal. The good thing about the Bulls now is that there will definitely be a guy that will want to be a part of this

[Hold That]

I wonder if his ankle is still bothering him. He was originally suppose to come back this week but he miraculously healed early and was back two weeks ago after Green had those impressive pre season games starting.

[NecessaryEvil]

Grant seems like a reach for me though. He doesn’t get is out of the East, doesn’t really solve the size problems. Would hate to use all our ammo on that one. The Bulls should wait for the right player to push his way toward the Bulls. We don’t need to do a deal just because we want to do a deal. The good thing about the Bulls now is that there will definitely be a guy that will want to be a part of this

i'm curious as to how Jokic felt about J.Grant. Could be helpful in the pursuit.

[kodo]

Passing could be a little better. Bulls ran a nice play for him early where he set a screen for Demar, Raps doubled Derozan leaving Pat wide open. Play worked well to get an open corner 3, but Pat took a contested mid range jumper instead (grazed the rim). Lavine is even pointing out where the ball goes next on this play.



I think it's just too early for him. Not every kid is a starter in his 2nd year.

[FriedRise]

Read on Twitter

He should sit IMO.

[Senor Chang]

Pat is moving like a granny out there. As if he's protecting his ankles. It was clear watching him last night next to Barnes and OG.

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[dabig3]

Read on Twitter

He should sit IMO.

Time for Billy to make a coaching decision and just bench him till he's more recovered. Pat needs to focus on his own health and development right now, other guys can step up.

I rather have a healthy, focused, and hungrier Pat for that road trip next month than one still on the mend and playing like s***.

[gardenofsound]

If the issue is that he's not healthy, then yeah, go with the preseason approach and start Javonte and start running DJJ in the rotation until PW is ready to bang.

[kulaz3000]

If the issue is that he's not healthy, then yeah, go with the preseason approach and start Javonte and start running DJJ in the rotation until PW is ready to bang.

Billy has had no hesitation to bench Pat when he has made mistakes or seemed to be tired. I think seeing Billy continue to play him over say DJJ or even Bradley for that matter is that, he either doesn’t feel those players are up to speed yet, they don’t know the plays or they aren’t healthy.

[GoBlue72391]

To those, who say that his rebounding/ the lack of doesn't hurt: The Bulls are 29th as a team in rebounding at 41.

Did someone really say his lack of rebounding isn't a problem? Getting 0 rebounds from any position is a problem, let alone from a frontcourt player.

[GoBlue72391]

Read on Twitter

He should sit IMO.

Time for Billy to make a coaching decision and just bench him till he's more recovered. Pat needs to focus on his own health and development right now, other guys can step up.

I rather have a healthy, focused, and hungrier Pat for that road trip next month than one still on the mend and playing like s***.

I don't think benching him until he's healthy will solve this or make him hungrier, although I'm not saying we shouldn't do that. To me, this goes beyond physical health. This is a between the ears thing. This is just who he is, healthy or not. Maybe he can change, but it's getting less and less likely.

[heir_jordan22]

I think people are overreacting about Pat. 0 rebounds and 3 shot attempts is not good. But this is a second year player who missed the last month (all of preseason) with an injury. The roster is completely reconstructed and he is now playing an entirely different role and basically hasn't practiced with this team. And let's not pretend he's the only one not rebounding. We only had 28 rebounds as a team. That's putrid, and while Pat definitely needs to carry some of the blame for that, he is the second tallest player in our rotation at 6'7". We need more size.

We should NOT bench him for someone who is already on the roster. We need to trade for a bigger PF who is a rebounder and defender. And we definitely should NOT be including Pat in the trade. Obviously DJJ is the guy to trade and possibly include TBJ.

Let's not lose our minds here.

Fair enough, but hes not 6’7”

According to NBA.com, basketballreference.com, Wikipedia, and Google, he is 6'7". Is there a better source that I'm missing?


Edit: RealGM and 2k also list him at 6'7".

Meanwhile, people are calling for Alize to start. Alize is smaller, not as good a defender, not as good a shooter, and had 2 rebounds in 14 minutes against the Raptors. I'm not sure why people would want him to be a starter.

[heir_jordan22]

I think people are overreacting about Pat. 0 rebounds and 3 shot attempts is not good. But this is a second year player who missed the last month (all of preseason) with an injury. The roster is completely reconstructed and he is now playing an entirely different role and basically hasn't practiced with this team. And let's not pretend he's the only one not rebounding. We only had 28 rebounds as a team. That's putrid, and while Pat definitely needs to carry some of the blame for that, he is the second tallest player in our rotation at 6'7". We need more size.

We should NOT bench him for someone who is already on the roster. We need to trade for a bigger PF who is a rebounder and defender. And we definitely should NOT be including Pat in the trade. Obviously DJJ is the guy to trade and possibly include TBJ.

Let's not lose our minds here.

It's easy to say don't overreact, he's young, raw, and coming off an injury, and that does hold some level of merit. But on the other hand, what player in Bulls history has produced less and had a lower impact on the game than PWill among those who got consistent playing time? Keith Bogans in the only one I can recall, and he was an end-of-the-bench vet who was forced into a limited minutes starter role due to a lack of better fits and had a very defined role of 3&D.

Young or not, he should have shown something by now, and I can count on one hand the number of games where he showed something more than just mere flashes every once in a great while. Forget the Bulls, what young player in recent NBA history produced so little and went on to become a good player? I'm talking about players who actually got consistent playing time from day 1, so guys like Gerald Wallace and Jermaine O'Neal don't count because they barely played for their first few years in the league and I doubt they had the glaring passivity and lack of effort that PWill has shown.

I'm willing to give him more time and acknowledge that he's young, raw, and is making up for a short amount of lost time and is adjusting to new teammates, but he has to start showing something or changes will eventually have to be made.

Willing to give him more time than 4 games? Wow, that's incredibly reasonable of you.

I'm not sure if you guys realize this, but the season just started. Nobody will be traded anytime soon. And a player in the second year of a rookie contract damn sure isn't being traded before Christmas unless he whips a gun out in the locker room.

[fleet]

I think people are overreacting about Pat. 0 rebounds and 3 shot attempts is not good. But this is a second year player who missed the last month (all of preseason) with an injury. The roster is completely reconstructed and he is now playing an entirely different role and basically hasn't practiced with this team. And let's not pretend he's the only one not rebounding. We only had 28 rebounds as a team. That's putrid, and while Pat definitely needs to carry some of the blame for that, he is the second tallest player in our rotation at 6'7". We need more size.

We should NOT bench him for someone who is already on the roster. We need to trade for a bigger PF who is a rebounder and defender. And we definitely should NOT be including Pat in the trade. Obviously DJJ is the guy to trade and possibly include TBJ.

Let's not lose our minds here.

Fair enough, but hes not 6’7”

According to NBA.com, basketballreference.com, Wikipedia, and Google, he is 6'7". Is there a better source that I'm missing?


Edit: RealGM and 2k also list him at 6'7".

Meanwhile, people are calling for Alize to start. Alize is smaller, not as good a defender, not as good a shooter, and had 2 rebounds in 14 minutes against the Raptors. I'm not sure why people would want him to be a starter.

Those height listings are not worth the electrons they are printed with. Alize listed 6’8” btw.

[CaPiTanAK]

https://nyboneandjoint.com/blog/how-long-does-it-take-for-a-sprained-shoulder-to-heal/

Give him two weeks off and go from there. But that doesn’t stop him from running suicide sprints all day in order to declog that trash motor that he has.

[mack2354]

He's the 5th option. Anyone they traded him for would likely still be a 5th option. The kid just needs to have more confidence that his release is quick enough to not get blocked. He shoots at a really good percentage but he won't shoot unless the nearest defender is 50ft away. I see him pass or put the ball on the floor way too much on wide open looks. This seems like a simple fix. He's not this huge problem that people are making him out to be.

He's stronger and better equipped to guard the bigger PF's than Green, Brown, Jones, or Alize is. Pat also shoots the 3 ball better than all of those guys as well. We are undefeated, he's only 20 yrs old and he's currently our best option on our roster at the position. I'd keep his minutes in the low 20's to reward the 2nd unit guys who are busting their butts to earn minutes.

[DuckIII]

Any long salary the Bulls take on means lux tax for Jerry next year. They are going to want to minimize that. The trade assets going out will likely be Pat, Coby and the Portland 1st. Plus whatever filler is needed.

Say, Grant + Livers + Garza for Coby + Pat + DJJ + Portland 1st.

I’m on record as supporting a Pat/Grant centered deal. And I don’t believe Coby has a future with this team. But I’d need therapy to resolve the emotional havoc Garza in a Bulls uniform would visit upon me.