Toronto Star: Edward Rogers fought plans to keep Raptors’ Masai Ujiri

[lobosloboslobos]

Masai is a politician playing the role of a sports exec at the moment and hes got a sizeable population of fools eating out of his hand.

it's one thing to be a freethinking contrarian and another to be a troll and still another to spout insulting idiocy

[OakleyDokely]

Masai is a politician playing the role of a sports exec at the moment and hes got a sizeable population of fools eating out of his hand.

it's one thing to be a freethinking contrarian and another to be a troll and still another to spout insulting idiocy

yup, Masai got paid because he's one of the best in his given profession and if the Raps didn't pay him someone else would've. There were rumours that Minnesota were willing to offer up a small stake in the franchise along with the big salary. Masai was in demand from franchises all over the world.

Not everyone is handed a lucrative and powerful position without earning it like trust fund Ed.

[everdiso]

Excellent article from top to bottom, dealing with both the obvious racial issue but just as important the competence issue.

Read on Twitter

[Dalek]

Spoiler:

So much to unpack ...

What better offers were on the table for Lowry/Ibaka/Gasol?

What makes Precious "mediocre" (he's averaging 11/11/2) ?

How would overpaying for Dinwiddie/Holmes have helped our future/cap ?

Are you not excited by Banton at all ?

The Birch signing made perfect sense (positional need, wants to be here), you just wish it was a few mill less.

You're upset about the GTJ contract because of his age ? Huh ? That's literally the best part of the deal.

Spoiler:

Being "over the cap" is meaningless till Game 82. We will not be over the cap.

Dragic isn't a "paperweight" unless we get nothing for him. Until then, he's still an asset.

So basically ... you're upset we locked up our own core, you're upset we didn't lock up other expensive FA's, you're upset we didn't pursue SnT's we have no proof existed & you're upset that everybody else's youth is better than ours.

Dude ... we've been in every game so far, without our best player. If you can't see the potential (and think we'd have been better off being capped out with Holmes/Dinwiddie), all I can say is, keep watching.

The GTJ contract is not a problem because of age or amount, but length. When you give that much money, at that age, you lock up for more years. 3 plus a team option was what was needed. Do we really want to have to pay him more 21 months from now?

Having said that, of course Masai is worth his money.

On another note is Drake, as the team's ambassador, still a thing?

Sorry, I should have clarified about why I am not a fan of Trent's contract. He is 22 so the age is great with the young core, but getting paid $18m a season is the same as Norman Powell who is a much better player at this stage of his career. As Dennis37 pointed out Trent's contract is only really 2 years because he has a PO in year three. So you are hoping you get $18m value over the next two years. He may equate to that, but then you have to pay more in year three if you want to retain him. If he doesn't pan out then he opts in an gets paid on an overvalued deal. It kind of is lose-lose.

Powell would have been nice to keep as he can create his shot, knows the system and I think has unlocked his potential. He fit perfectly with the core.

After the trade, I wanted to sign Trent Jr., on a cheaper deal or at least using Bird rights. But, Toronto made it clear right away that they were not going to pay tax and compete this year. They signed Trent right away before anyone could compete for him which again fits the pattern of never really allowing the market to dictate the price.

Regarding Dinwiddie/Holmes, that is just my view that we could have competed with a stronger line-up that supported the current core. To me, this was a huge transition year losing Kyle and expecting Pascal coming off an injury and FVV to take on a new role. Even OG is playing more of scoring role. It would have been more optimal for those guys to have talented players around them to take the burden off.

Can anyone seriously tell me they prefer Dragic, Achuiwa and Birch over Dinwiddie and Holmes? Because, doing that Kyle deal cost us the opportunity to have better players. Everyone can see how small the margin is for Toronto winning or losing, and right now we are operating with a talent and experience deficit. Hopefully, Achuiwa pans out.

[Badonkadonk]

Excellent article from top to bottom, dealing with both the obvious racial issue but just as important the competence issue.

Read on Twitter

I came to post this as well.

This is especially important for those who don't see the racism at play.

To be clear, it's there, you're just not seeing it, whether by choice or lack of comprehension.

[vini_vidi_vici]

Spoiler:

So much to unpack ...

What better offers were on the table for Lowry/Ibaka/Gasol?

What makes Precious "mediocre" (he's averaging 11/11/2) ?

How would overpaying for Dinwiddie/Holmes have helped our future/cap ?

Are you not excited by Banton at all ?

The Birch signing made perfect sense (positional need, wants to be here), you just wish it was a few mill less.

You're upset about the GTJ contract because of his age ? Huh ? That's literally the best part of the deal.

Spoiler:

Being "over the cap" is meaningless till Game 82. We will not be over the cap.

Dragic isn't a "paperweight" unless we get nothing for him. Until then, he's still an asset.

So basically ... you're upset we locked up our own core, you're upset we didn't lock up other expensive FA's, you're upset we didn't pursue SnT's we have no proof existed & you're upset that everybody else's youth is better than ours.

Dude ... we've been in every game so far, without our best player. If you can't see the potential (and think we'd have been better off being capped out with Holmes/Dinwiddie), all I can say is, keep watching.

The GTJ contract is not a problem because of age or amount, but length. When you give that much money, at that age, you lock up for more years. 3 plus a team option was what was needed. Do we really want to have to pay him more 21 months from now?

Having said that, of course Masai is worth his money.

On another note is Drake, as the team's ambassador, still a thing?

Sorry, I should have clarified about why I am not a fan of Trent's contract. He is 22 so the age is great with the young core, but getting paid $18m a season is the same as Norman Powell who is a much better player at this stage of his career. As Dennis37 pointed out Trent's contract is only really 2 years because he has a PO in year three. So you are hoping you get $18m value over the next two years. He may equate to that, but then you have to pay more in year three if you want to retain him. If he doesn't pan out then he opts in an gets paid on an overvalued deal. It kind of is lose-lose.

Powell would have been nice to keep as he can create his shot, knows the system and I think has unlocked his potential. He fit perfectly with the core.

After the trade, I wanted to sign Trent Jr., on a cheaper deal or at least using Bird rights. But, Toronto made it clear right away that they were not going to pay tax and compete this year. They signed Trent right away before anyone could compete for him which again fits the pattern of never really allowing the market to dictate the price.

Regarding Dinwiddie/Holmes, that is just my view that we could have competed with a stronger line-up that supported the current core. To me, this was a huge transition year losing Kyle and expecting Pascal coming off an injury and FVV to take on a new role. Even OG is playing more of scoring role. It would have been more optimal for those guys to have talented players around them to take the burden off.

Can anyone seriously tell me they prefer Dragic, Achuiwa and Birch over Dinwiddie and Holmes? Because, doing that Kyle deal cost us the opportunity to have better players. Everyone can see how small the margin is for Toronto winning or losing, and right now we are operating with a talent and experience deficit. Hopefully, Achuiwa pans out.

I disagree with much of this, but I dont care enough to rip this apart.

The point I want clarity for is, cost us how? Are you saying we could have traded for Holmes/Dinwiddie using the Kyle contract??

Also, since it was neglected, what do Siakams/FVVs/Trents/Birchs contracts all have in common??

[ATLTimekeeper]

Can anyone seriously tell me they prefer Dragic, Achuiwa and Birch over Dinwiddie and Holmes? Because, doing that Kyle deal cost us the opportunity to have better players. Everyone can see how small the margin is for Toronto winning or losing, and right now we are operating with a talent and experience deficit. Hopefully, Achuiwa pans out.

Achiuwa's averaging a double double right now. Looks like a smart investment so far. I don't really think Dinwiddie and Holmes have a load of experience. Like, regular season experience, sure, but if you think that Scottie Barnes should be looking up to Dinwiddie C'mon. This guy was available. He'll always be available. The goal is to build something deep and sustainable. You take an opportunity on someone like Achiuwa and at worst you end up with Richuan Holmes-level 25 minute a night hustle big in a few years.

I'm sure when Dragic talks, people listen. Maybe his run here will be short, but he's been through everything in the league but a title. Dinwiddie can talk about the time he put up 40 on the Magic.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Excellent article from top to bottom, dealing with both the obvious racial issue but just as important the competence issue.

Read on Twitter

I came to post this as well.

This is especially important for those who don't see the racism at play.

To be clear, it's there, you're just not seeing it, whether by choice or lack of comprehension.

You mean the guy who holds boardroom meetings in the dark with a bunch of old white crones is possibly racist? Why are people even bothering to push back on this. Can we be sure that Ed Rogers even knew Kenny Williams skin colour? He didn't even know that Reinsdorf and Beeston knew each other.

Masai goes up to the Muskoka's in mid-July. Rogers thinks his driver and videographer are security guards. Why? He asks for a plan. Why? Tune into your own garbage sports network. Oh, wait, they rarely cover the Raptors. Maybe try TSN?

[ItsDanger]

Watch on YouTube

They refer to the 12th condition which might be a key aspect to this. Need more info. Listening now.

FYI, Kenny Williams actually played for the Jays back in the day.

[LarSiN]

For the age/price/fit ... yes, I prefer Achiuwa/Birch/Dragic (whatever he's flipped for) to paying Holmes + Dinwiddie

[vini_vidi_vici]

For the age/price/fit ... yes, I prefer Achiuwa/Birch/Dragic (whatever he's flipped for) to paying Holmes + Dinwiddie

Lets tank to pay for 2 28 yr olds (which would require us to renounce the rights/move how many other assets?), instead of trade for a cost effective (hasnt hit RFA) 22 yr old, and the cap ballast (Dragic).

I dont even understand his argument. How much cap space would we even have to sign for 10+/4 yrs 17-18/3 yrs without any bird rights??

[OakleyDokely]

For the age/price/fit ... yes, I prefer Achiuwa/Birch/Dragic (whatever he's flipped for) to paying Holmes + Dinwiddie

Adding Holmes+Dinwiddie locks in treadmill status (if adding these two was even possible, which given their salaries, doesn't appear so). They're both good players but they aren't difference makers who would've made the Raptors contenders.

Given where the Raps are currently, I'd rather have the young cheap guy with potential in Precious and a couple other potential trade pieces that aren't big money, long term investments.

[ontnut]

For the age/price/fit ... yes, I prefer Achiuwa/Birch/Dragic (whatever he's flipped for) to paying Holmes + Dinwiddie

Lets tank to pay for 2 28 yr olds (which would require us to renounce the rights/move how many other assets?), instead of trade for a cost effective (hasnt hit RFA) 22 yr old, and the cap ballast (Dragic).

I dont even understand his argument. How much cap space would we even have to sign for 10+/4 yrs 17-18/3 yrs without any bird rights??

Literally the one thing most of this board agrees with is not being a treadmill bottom 4 seed.
Yet, here we are, having to argue with some people over signing Dinwiddie and Holmes, which would lock us into being a treadmill bottom 4 seed at BEST, for 3-4 years.

[aminiaturebuddha]

For the age/price/fit ... yes, I prefer Achiuwa/Birch/Dragic (whatever he's flipped for) to paying Holmes + Dinwiddie

Lets tank to pay for 2 28 yr olds (which would require us to renounce the rights/move how many other assets?), instead of trade for a cost effective (hasnt hit RFA) 22 yr old, and the cap ballast (Dragic).

I dont even understand his argument. How much cap space would we even have to sign for 10+/4 yrs 17-18/3 yrs without any bird rights??

Also, people talk as if this was a clear either/or player swap. Even if you accept the cap space premise, it's trading Precious, Birch and Dragic for the chance to sign Dinwiddie and Holmes. As we've seen in the past with free agency, even if it seems to make sense to us that a player would choose the Raptors, there's certainly no guarantee that it would happen, and more often than not, it doesn't.

[DreamTeam09]

I'm willing to bet right now, that over the next 5yrs, trent will make approximately the same as Norman Powell 5yr deal. I don't understand this notion that if a player gets said contract, the next contract automatically has to be higher. THJ just signed a deal with an aav of like 18mill coming off a deal that paid him an aav of 18-20mill.

[lobosloboslobos]

Watch on YouTube

They refer to the 12th condition which might be a key aspect to this. Need more info. Listening now.

FYI, Kenny Williams actually played for the Jays back in the day.

That's interesting. for those who don't watch basically Doug says there was supposed to be a clause in the contract that would have given Masai control over the Jays as well, which seemingly made Ed lose his sh*t because more than anything he apparently cherishes his ownership of the Jays, but either way it does seem to have been cut from the deal so while Masai may have been aiming for it – probably with the support of Larry T and others - Bell wasn't having it and Masai presumably shrugged and said OK and signed for the rest of the stuff in his deal.

Also apparently Ed didn't even know that Larry T had 100% control over the decision as the sole NBA governor for the Raptors and after it was signed went crying to Silver thinking he would reverse the deal or parts of it, and Silver presumably told hi to F*** off. (or whatever the Adam Silver version of F off is.)

EDIT: they also suggest that the article could have a big negative impact on the Shaw deal, and that while sports fans generally could care less about corporate boardroom politics that the article has apparently made everyone across the country care because Masai is so beloved (except by a few dorks around here.)

[ATLTimekeeper]

That's interesting. for those who don't watch basically Doug says there was supposed to be a clause in the contract that would have given Masai control over the Jays as well, which seemingly made Ed lose his sh*t because more than anything he apparently cherishes his ownership of the Jays, but either way it does seem to have been cut from the deal so while Masai may have been aiming for it – probably with the support of Larry T and others - Bell wasn't having it and Masai presumably shrugged and said OK and signed for the rest of the stuff in his deal.

I'm not sure how that could even be possible since Masai works for MLSE and the Jays are owned outright by Rogers. Per the article Rogers wanted to separate their stake from MLSE into a separate company, combined with the Blue Jays.

Kenny Williams did have a cup of coffee with the Jays well before Rogers owned them. It's still plausible that he didn't know him from Adam and just saw a cheap, competent executive.

[Dennis 37]

I'm willing to bet right now, that over the next 5yrs, trent will make approximately the same as Norman Powell 5yr deal. I don't understand this notion that if a player gets said contract, the next contract automatically has to be higher. THJ just signed a deal with an aav of like 18mill coming off a deal that paid him an aav of 18-20mill.

Our team develops players, they do not have the same ability in two years they have now. Trent will be better in two years, than he is now, and therefore will look for more money. I have yet to see a player do a contract favour for the Raptors.

[WuTang_CMB]

Excellent article from top to bottom, dealing with both the obvious racial issue but just as important the competence issue.

Read on Twitter

I came to post this as well.

This is especially important for those who don't see the racism at play.

To be clear, it's there, you're just not seeing it, whether by choice or lack of comprehension.

the guy is a total RACIST and a huge putz. his own family have hated him for years

[DreamTeam09]

I'm willing to bet right now, that over the next 5yrs, trent will make approximately the same as Norman Powell 5yr deal. I don't understand this notion that if a player gets said contract, the next contract automatically has to be higher. THJ just signed a deal with an aav of like 18mill coming off a deal that paid him an aav of 18-20mill.

Our team develops players, they do not have the same ability in two years they have now. Trent will be better in two years, than he is now, and therefore will look for more money. I have yet to see a player do a contract favour for the Raptors.

We gave lowry 30mill, then reup him for 30mill, then he signed another contract around 30mill. AAV don't automatically go up, even with improvements and developing. I'm willing to bet Trents next deal won't come with a cap hit higher than 20m per year.