2021-22 Rookie Thread

[djsunyc]

mobley looks fantastic but in terms of future prospects, i would take scottie over him simply bc nba teams usually go deep in the playoffs bc of big wing players. AD and KG were first round fodder until they joined up with lebron and pierce.

[djsunyc]

Dalano Banton just two 3s away from matching Ben Simmons' career totals. TJ McConnell couldn't get into his handle. Really interesting prospect. He's changed pretty much every game he's been in so far.

the general board isnt ready for another masai 2nd round gem.

[TheDunc]

Anybody sleeping on Banton, remember his name because i wont be surprised to see him average 16/10/8 to go along with great D in a couple years

[Quattro]

Already looking like this is going to go down as a great draft class without Cade having played a game yet. Great to see so many exciting young rookies doing well right out of the gate.

[Dadouv47]

Crazy good draft class.

I was fine with Giddey at 6 but badly wanted to move up to draft Mobley. Props to Cleveland for not moving down. Still early but feel he was the obvious second pick (don't blame the Pistons though because of the Cade hype and still very high ceiling).

[HotelVitale]

mobley looks fantastic but in terms of future prospects, i would take scottie over him simply bc nba teams usually go deep in the playoffs bc of big wing players. AD and KG were first round fodder until they joined up with lebron and pierce.

LOL, you don't think you're getting ahead of yourself a little?

[djsunyc]

mobley looks fantastic but in terms of future prospects, i would take scottie over him simply bc nba teams usually go deep in the playoffs bc of big wing players. AD and KG were first round fodder until they joined up with lebron and pierce.

LOL, you don't think you're getting ahead of yourself a little?

i'm just talking in a macro sense. going by history, if skills are similar and you project them to be good players, it's better to go with the big wing than a guard or center. it's just how it is in the nba.

[HotelVitale]

mobley looks fantastic but in terms of future prospects, i would take scottie over him simply bc nba teams usually go deep in the playoffs bc of big wing players. AD and KG were first round fodder until they joined up with lebron and pierce.

LOL, you don't think you're getting ahead of yourself a little?

i'm just talking in a macro sense. going by history, if skills are similar and you project them to be good players, it's better to go with the big wing than a guard or center. it's just how it is in the nba.

I don't think that's a useful way of approaching this. All four of the guys you mentioned were legit MVP-level guys for like a decade and it's very unlikely that both Barnes and Mobley end up as that. It's also far more likely that one of them ends up better than the other, and that player will be the more valuable one. Jokic is clearly better than Jamal Murray or Brandon Ingram, even though they're all good.

Also the examples don't help illuminate the situation: Lebron is a top-3 all time player and he won with everyone, but Pierce never did ish before he had KG. Plus Lebron's the greatest driver+passer in the game while Pierce is a great shooter/scorer above all, Barnes looks good but not either of those things. The comparison points are way too loose.

Anyway, not trying to rain on any parades. Just don't think that comparisons are very useful with prospects.

[JonFromVA]

Anyone brave enough to give some hot take comps for the rookies?

A little more experience and work on his timing and my hot take for Mobley is modern day Bill Russell.

Maybe its the dearth of defensive big men in Cleveland since Nate Thurmond ... but Mobley just looks historic on the defensive end. Nance Sr and Jr were good, Ben Wallace was sweet, Tristan Thompson was useful, Andy Varejao all hustle, big Z was well big, LeBron was deserving of DPOY consideration some years ... but none of them were doing what Evan has done in just his first 5 best my brain cells can remember.

Got damn. If he's modern day Russel then he's the best big in who knows how long. That would be a spectacular outcome man. Honestly i'm happy for the Cavs. Mobley will drag Cleveland out the NBA gutters, he's soooo good already.

Well, except the modern game favors offense so much, I'm obviously not predicting 11 championships; but more so a player who can affect the game defensively all over the floor on a night in and night out basis and do things on offense that help a team win.

In Russell's day the most efficient shots were at the rim, so rim protection was invaluable. In this era, it's out at the 3pt line and while Mobley will help out there, he can't defend the entire perimeter.

If his offense breaks out, that would change things, but would he still put in the same level of effort on defense? For instance, while stars like Giannis or James can defend the best player on the other team, they try to avoid doing so to save energy for offense.

[LivingLegend]

mobley looks fantastic but in terms of future prospects, i would take scottie over him simply bc nba teams usually go deep in the playoffs bc of big wing players. AD and KG were first round fodder until they joined up with lebron and pierce.

LOL, you don't think you're getting ahead of yourself a little?

i'm just talking in a macro sense. going by history, if skills are similar and you project them to be good players, it's better to go with the big wing than a guard or center. it's just how it is in the nba.

Your assuming the Cavs are not in the middle of reinventing the new era of basketball by playing 'big ball' lineups where PFs/Cs are the new meta Watch, by 2024 every team is going to have 3 7ft players on their roster and over-drafting score first, defense last combo guards are going to be a thing left in 2010-2020.

#makesizematteragain

[LBJKB24MJ23]

LOL, you don't think you're getting ahead of yourself a little?

i'm just talking in a macro sense. going by history, if skills are similar and you project them to be good players, it's better to go with the big wing than a guard or center. it's just how it is in the nba.

I don't think that's a useful way of approaching this. All four of the guys you mentioned were legit MVP-level guys for like a decade and it's very unlikely that both Barnes and Mobley end up as that. It's also far more likely that one of them ends up better than the other, and that player will be the more valuable one. Jokic is clearly better than Jamal Murray or Brandon Ingram, even though they're all good.

Also the examples don't help illuminate the situation: Lebron is a top-3 all time player and he won with everyone, but Pierce never did ish before he had KG. Plus Lebron's the greatest driver+passer in the game while Pierce is a great shooter/scorer above all, Barnes looks good but not either of those things. The comparison points are way too loose.

Anyway, not trying to rain on any parades. Just don't think that comparisons are very useful with prospects.

this. way too far to project on Barnes vs Mobley and who to go with down the road. OP is getting ahead of himself on Barnes right now.

[BlazersBroncos]

Giddey is already a top tier PNR guy. He knows how to run them like a 10 year vet.

Mobley is already a top 3-5 defensive big. He is a freak on that end.

Barnes is already one of the most versatile, well rounded forwards in the game.

This class has been epic, but those 3 really stand out. All are so fun to watch.

[JonFromVA]

i'm just talking in a macro sense. going by history, if skills are similar and you project them to be good players, it's better to go with the big wing than a guard or center. it's just how it is in the nba.

I don't think that's a useful way of approaching this. All four of the guys you mentioned were legit MVP-level guys for like a decade and it's very unlikely that both Barnes and Mobley end up as that. It's also far more likely that one of them ends up better than the other, and that player will be the more valuable one. Jokic is clearly better than Jamal Murray or Brandon Ingram, even though they're all good.

Also the examples don't help illuminate the situation: Lebron is a top-3 all time player and he won with everyone, but Pierce never did ish before he had KG. Plus Lebron's the greatest driver+passer in the game while Pierce is a great shooter/scorer above all, Barnes looks good but not either of those things. The comparison points are way too loose.

Anyway, not trying to rain on any parades. Just don't think that comparisons are very useful with prospects.

this. way too far to project on Barnes vs Mobley and who to go with down the road. OP is getting ahead of himself on Barnes right now.

We were diving down the rabbit hole of hot takes on these prospects, so, all's fair.

[HotelVitale]

LOL, you don't think you're getting ahead of yourself a little?

i'm just talking in a macro sense. going by history, if skills are similar and you project them to be good players, it's better to go with the big wing than a guard or center. it's just how it is in the nba.

Your assuming the Cavs are not in the middle of reinventing the new era of basketball by playing 'big ball' lineups where PFs/Cs are the new meta Watch, by 2024 every team is going to have 3 7ft players on their roster and over-drafting score first, defense last combo guards are going to be a thing left in 2010-2020. #makesizematteragain

Yes, Total Defensive Height is the new Moneyball tactic. The ideal defender is an athletic big wing about 6'7-6'8, so if you have two 6'1 guys you need to get enough bigs out there so the total height of players averages out to about 6'7-6'8. Science!

[CraftylikeaFox]

Scottie Barnes is soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo nice.

[CraftylikeaFox]

Davion Mitchell is a defensive savant.

I'm still not sold about his fit next to DeAaron Fox and I don't know what his ceiling is in this league, but he already looks like a generational defender. I wouldn't be surprised if he winds up being the best defensive point guard since Gary Payton.

[djsunyc]

I don't think that's a useful way of approaching this. All four of the guys you mentioned were legit MVP-level guys for like a decade and it's very unlikely that both Barnes and Mobley end up as that. It's also far more likely that one of them ends up better than the other, and that player will be the more valuable one. Jokic is clearly better than Jamal Murray or Brandon Ingram, even though they're all good.

Also the examples don't help illuminate the situation: Lebron is a top-3 all time player and he won with everyone, but Pierce never did ish before he had KG. Plus Lebron's the greatest driver+passer in the game while Pierce is a great shooter/scorer above all, Barnes looks good but not either of those things. The comparison points are way too loose.

Anyway, not trying to rain on any parades. Just don't think that comparisons are very useful with prospects.

this. way too far to project on Barnes vs Mobley and who to go with down the road. OP is getting ahead of himself on Barnes right now.

We were diving down the rabbit hole of hot takes on these prospects, so, all's fair.

i'm not even talking barnes and mobley. if you have 2 prospects with high prospects, i would go with the big wing than the pf/c. that's all i'm saying.

[HumbleRen]

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[CptCrunch]

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TPA is quite useless as a stat.

It maybe look good because it confirms our internal biases. It scales up BPM for possession/usage resulting in basically a measure of counting stats. Doing so fundamentally destroys the conceptual basis of BPM as a stat, which was designed to normalizes for possession/usage such that two players of differing usage can be compared apple to apple.

TPA is therefore a modern version of PER rather than anything ground breaking (at least from a conceptual or statistical perspective) like BPM, RAPM/RPM.

[Bruin]

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