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2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation

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Do you truly expect the Suns to win the finals this year?

Yes
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55%
No
15
45%
 
Total votes: 33

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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#441 » by bwgood77 » Thu Oct 28, 2021 3:57 pm

Saberestar wrote:
Read on Twitter


That is so weird, and I'm sure there are some who would put that on Ayton, but watching games it's as clear as day that it's intentional the team goes to him early and starts to go less and less.

Still hard to tell if this is due to big defensive adjustments. Seems like he had 14-16 pts early, maybe by around 14 by the half...he was very efficient overall, yet we took jump shot after jump shot. He also had a few interesting moves and took it at people including a spin move to the rim.

Hopefully this trend changes.
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#442 » by Revived » Thu Oct 28, 2021 4:15 pm

Kings made adjustments and stopped his rolls to the basket. And when he doesn’t have open rolls to the basket, there’s very little ways to get him the ball because he doesn’t seal inside the paint very much.

CP3 should’ve still found a way to get him involved because when the 3s were being bricked, Ayton should’ve been the go-to for easier shots in the paint.
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#443 » by bwgood77 » Thu Oct 28, 2021 5:56 pm

Revived wrote:Kings made adjustments and stopped his rolls to the basket. And when he doesn’t have open rolls to the basket, there’s very little ways to get him the ball because he doesn’t seal inside the paint very much.

CP3 should’ve still found a way to get him involved because when the 3s were being bricked, Ayton should’ve been the go-to for easier shots in the paint.


He does enough in the paint to get open for more shots. He has also shown to be a willing driver at times from further out when there probably are fewer or no defenders down near the rim.
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#444 » by sasquatchBob » Thu Oct 28, 2021 6:35 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
Saberestar wrote:
Read on Twitter


That is so weird, and I'm sure there are some who would put that on Ayton, but watching games it's as clear as day that it's intentional the team goes to him early and starts to go less and less.

Still hard to tell if this is due to big defensive adjustments. Seems like he had 14-16 pts early, maybe by around 14 by the half...he was very efficient overall, yet we took jump shot after jump shot. He also had a few interesting moves and took it at people including a spin move to the rim.

Hopefully this trend changes.


I think it's because of his fatigue. During stopped plays you see him with his hands on his knees. Besides pick n roll, Ayton isn't really being fed, so he earns a lot of his baskets himself from his rebounding. If you're tired it happens less.
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#445 » by bwgood77 » Thu Oct 28, 2021 7:31 pm

sasquatchBob wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Saberestar wrote:
Read on Twitter


That is so weird, and I'm sure there are some who would put that on Ayton, but watching games it's as clear as day that it's intentional the team goes to him early and starts to go less and less.

Still hard to tell if this is due to big defensive adjustments. Seems like he had 14-16 pts early, maybe by around 14 by the half...he was very efficient overall, yet we took jump shot after jump shot. He also had a few interesting moves and took it at people including a spin move to the rim.

Hopefully this trend changes.


I think it's because of his fatigue. During stopped plays you see him with his hands on his knees. Besides pick n roll, Ayton isn't really being fed, so he earns a lot of his baskets himself from his rebounding. If you're tired it happens less.


He should be fine coming back in, in the 3rd though, after halftime rest...and perhaps take a little longer break. He plays about as many minutes as anyone, only about 40 seconds less per game on avg than Booker and Bridges and almost 2 minutes more than the next guy (Paul). 2.5 more than Crowder but more than 11 minutes more than CamJ or anyone else, so it's probably expected, especially when he guards the mobile bigs like AD where he didn't shoot well (though rebounded well) and then on the b2b against Portland where he was low in pts and boards.

Of course with more rest he came out with a lot more points and rebounds. He should also have more energy in the next one with rest and may need it battling multiple bigs. Will be interesting how we counter this.

I can't imagine we would try to start Ayton and McGee.

I'd rather make Mobley or Allen and Lauri chase around Crowder and Bridges than try to match up with them.

But I bet we play Kaminsky a bit despite Crowder playing better D than Frank by a long shot.
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#446 » by Ghost of Kleine » Thu Oct 28, 2021 9:35 pm

NBA Math (@NBA_Math) Tweeted:
After their loss to the Sacramento Kings, the Phoenix Suns are now 1-3. Which Suns players have done the most (or least) with their minutes during the 2021-22 #NBA season, per TPA? https://t.co/WZ8RUO4uQW
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#447 » by Ghost of Kleine » Thu Oct 28, 2021 9:36 pm

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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#448 » by Ghost of Kleine » Thu Oct 28, 2021 9:37 pm

Gerald Bourguet (@GeraldBourguet) Tweeted:
Suns are 27th in 3PAs at 29.8 per game and are giving up 40.3 3PAs per game, for the record. Also surrendering a league-worst 42.2% from 3-point range so far
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#449 » by bwgood77 » Thu Oct 28, 2021 10:57 pm

There is no way the opponents shooting over 42% so from 3 against us is sustainable and no way we continue shooting so bad from 3. Those things will revert closer to where they should be. We need to run more .5 offense. We will go on a run. 1-3 is really hardly a concern, especially losing to the 3 and 6 seeds from the playoffs, crushing the Lakers and losing on a last second shot against the Kings where Chris Paul went 1-10...in his first 3 games he went 14-28 from the field with 35 assists.
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#450 » by RunDogGun » Fri Oct 29, 2021 12:14 am

Revived wrote:Kings made adjustments and stopped his rolls to the basket. And when he doesn’t have open rolls to the basket, there’s very little ways to get him the ball because he doesn’t seal inside the paint very much.

CP3 should’ve still found a way to get him involved because when the 3s were being bricked, Ayton should’ve been the go-to for easier shots in the paint.

There needs to be more plays run with back screens like crazy. We have all seen the play, and really it isn't a tough play. Hornacek, would set the back screen and Stockton and Malone would run the play, and it work often. Our center goes 9-12 21/21, and we let Paul run out the clock at the end of the game like he has money on the other team? :banghead:
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#451 » by bwgood77 » Fri Oct 29, 2021 1:10 am

So far we have pretty much the worst starting lineup in the NBA, even a tad worse than OKC. Dallas is actually the only team worse, but they don't run that lineup as much as we run our starters together since we don't mix and match lineups as much as any other team really.

You can hover over the circles to see net rtg and the larger the circle the more minutes they have played together.

https://www.nba.com/stats/lineups/lineups-tool/?Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&MeasureType=Base
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#452 » by RaisingArizona » Fri Oct 29, 2021 1:48 am

bwgood77 wrote:So far we have pretty much the worst starting lineup in the NBA, even a tad worse than OKC. Dallas is actually the only team worse, but they don't run that lineup as much as we run our starters together since we don't mix and match lineups as much as any other team really.

You can hover over the circles to see net rtg and the larger the circle the more minutes they have played together.

https://www.nba.com/stats/lineups/lineups-tool/?Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&MeasureType=Base



4 games in or not, that's concerning.
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#453 » by lilfishi22 » Fri Oct 29, 2021 2:20 am

Considering how much continuity and talent we have in this starting lineup, it's certainly worrying. As much as the guys want to say otherwise, Finals hangover is a real thing and it seems like we're going through that. We also have a target on our back this season
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#454 » by bwgood77 » Fri Oct 29, 2021 2:56 am

RaisingArizona wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:So far we have pretty much the worst starting lineup in the NBA, even a tad worse than OKC. Dallas is actually the only team worse, but they don't run that lineup as much as we run our starters together since we don't mix and match lineups as much as any other team really.

You can hover over the circles to see net rtg and the larger the circle the more minutes they have played together.

https://www.nba.com/stats/lineups/lineups-tool/?Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&MeasureType=Base



4 games in or not, that's concerning.


Yes, pretty amazing that Memphis is the best...with Ja, Bane, Melton, JJJ and Steven Adams.
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#455 » by bwgood77 » Fri Oct 29, 2021 2:59 am

lilfishi22 wrote:Considering how much continuity and talent we have in this starting lineup, it's certainly worrying. As much as the guys want to say otherwise, Finals hangover is a real thing and it seems like we're going through that. We also have a target on our back this season


Warriors never had much of a finals hangover.

We actually started fairly well the first small stretch the last couple years. Last year we started like 5-1 before we dropped to 8-8.

We just better win most of our next 7 considering it's our longest home stand and it's an easy schedule. We may end up having the toughest schedule the rest of the way after that.
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#456 » by suns12345 » Fri Oct 29, 2021 3:35 am

bwgood77 wrote:So far we have pretty much the worst starting lineup in the NBA, even a tad worse than OKC. Dallas is actually the only team worse, but they don't run that lineup as much as we run our starters together since we don't mix and match lineups as much as any other team really.

You can hover over the circles to see net rtg and the larger the circle the more minutes they have played together.

https://www.nba.com/stats/lineups/lineups-tool/?Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&MeasureType=Base


Did we have the worst starting lineup for the first bunch of games last year too? i'm pretty sure thats right.
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#457 » by Revived » Fri Oct 29, 2021 3:53 am

The continuity thing is what’s worrying. Suns are the only “contender” team in the West that’s playing the start of this season with the exact same starting lineup from last season and mostly same rotation players as well and yet Suns are tied for worst record in the West.

Suns should have an advantage and should be off to a crazy hot start instead of struggling out of the gates.

Thankfully the Cavs are coming off the 2nd night of a back to back when Suns play them in their next game. So that’s a huge relief and Suns should be able to beat them. Otherwise I think Cavs would win that game as well and put the Suns in an even bigger hole.
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#458 » by bwgood77 » Fri Oct 29, 2021 4:12 am

suns12345 wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:So far we have pretty much the worst starting lineup in the NBA, even a tad worse than OKC. Dallas is actually the only team worse, but they don't run that lineup as much as we run our starters together since we don't mix and match lineups as much as any other team really.

You can hover over the circles to see net rtg and the larger the circle the more minutes they have played together.

https://www.nba.com/stats/lineups/lineups-tool/?Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&MeasureType=Base


Did we have the worst starting lineup for the first bunch of games last year too? i'm pretty sure thats right.


I know that Book and Paul had a negative net rating together but a positive net rating when either played without the other. So the starting unit was not a positive net rating, but probably not -22.5. And we started 5-1 also, so at least the other units or staggering them kept us winning until we lost 6 out of 8 after starting out 6-2.
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#459 » by Bogyo » Fri Oct 29, 2021 6:02 am

^^All this just justifies what I put in the game thread pretty bluntly. They should get their heads out of their behinds and start taking their jobs seriously, and play like they mean it. They are just a half second late, a half inch short or long, whatever. But that's only on them and the coaching. We have been voted up by many analyst becouse of the continuity we had - now we are blaming finals hangover? wtf? Go out and beat some trash teams - like the Kings. Do your job! (and earn your new contract)
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation 

Post#460 » by sunsbg » Fri Oct 29, 2021 6:38 am

bwgood77 wrote:
RaisingArizona wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:So far we have pretty much the worst starting lineup in the NBA, even a tad worse than OKC. Dallas is actually the only team worse, but they don't run that lineup as much as we run our starters together since we don't mix and match lineups as much as any other team really.

You can hover over the circles to see net rtg and the larger the circle the more minutes they have played together.

https://www.nba.com/stats/lineups/lineups-tool/?Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&MeasureType=Base



4 games in or not, that's concerning.


Yes, pretty amazing that Memphis is the best...with Ja, Bane, Melton, JJJ and Steven Adams.


Some weird stuff, which is not that surprising for the start of a season. Checking the box-scores last game Mavs' starters were -20 and their bench, which is considered weak was +20. They are 3:1 and after watching a few games I think they were down every first half, while Suns had a lead at half and are now 1:3. I don't think we played that bad, Kings game was actually very entertaining, but Book and DA didn't have good first few games, while CP3 laid an egg the last one. Crowder is streaky as usual and the bench doesn't look as good as we all hoped. Shamet is fine, Cam J is fine, but not 6th man of the year candidate so far. Hopefully it all starts clicking in the next few games.

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