PG: Raps outpace Indy

[Mikistan]

And all I know is, OG and Barnes were carrying the offense, initiating them more often than not. Trent is there to execute, may create a few for himself, but not exactly dominating like OG and Barnes. So we want to take away minutes from someone who can dominate to someone who is not much dominating?

Barnes minutes will not be taken away, he's able to get 30mins off the bench from playing multiple positions. What's wrong with having the rook dominate against other benches and give us some much needed bench production

Then we could have a 6th man and ROY candidate in one player

Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk

The truth of the matter is that we need Barnes to match up with other teams starters.. We lose when Scottie goes to the bench. Period.

[Indeed]

14 pages in and not a peep about that stretch of shooting vanvleet had. This board and its inflation with young players lol game after game the key players are ignored.

He played better with Brogdon injured half way.
Give credit to Lonzo Ball last game where his excellent defense was forcing VanVleet into trouble many time.
But probably this is what we expect him to start learning without Lowry.

[WuTang_CMB]

Re watching last nights game. Love the way we play. Really gonna enjoy this season win or lose if we play hard like this om both ends

[WuTang_CMB]

That is not true, Dragic was a better playmaker, and he got fouled at rim, or his pass to the big got foul.

The difference is that Button has been impactful on defense, particularly we don't have the size and length with below average defenders with Mykhailiuk. Banton allows us to hide them, while offensively Dragic isn't shooting well.

Disagree. Dragic never got in the lane to create, wasn't a difference maker off the bench. Very average playmaking. Banton's been a lot better.

Saying Dragic never got in the lane to create is not true, and he did that a few times against the Bulls. I am not going to re-watch the Bulls game on my 3rd time to point it out, but there are a few possessions he got to the heart of defense and draw fouls. And yet his average playmaking is pretty much the top on our team.

As for Banton, he is better, but not because of the offense, he plays both end, which is why he deserves minutes.

Dragic gets bodied. Too slow and too small right now at this stage of his career. He has so far shown leas creation than banton. Cant get into the lane as well as him and thats what we need to create open shots with our lack pf shooting. He’s also not high energy which is why Banton gives us a different look. And yes his defense has also been better than dragic, mainly bc of his length and quickness.

[alienchild]

Everyone's asleep at the wheel and too concerned about who start's and who goes to the bench. Nurse is salivating at the possibilities in front of him. He has 6 starters, most position-less. He'll just use situational starting 5's depending on the opponent and be able to swap in player's on shorter shifts so they can go hard knowing they'll get a blow before they're gasping for air. He can keep 3 of the 6 on the floor with a couple of the second stringer's so bench play is better. It will drive opposing coaches nuts not knowing what plans Nurse has up his sleeve.

[totallyr]

Re watching last nights game. Love the way we play. Really gonna enjoy this season win or lose if we play hard like this om both ends

That was my mindset going into this season, enjoy the development

[Indeed]

Disagree. Dragic never got in the lane to create, wasn't a difference maker off the bench. Very average playmaking. Banton's been a lot better.

Saying Dragic never got in the lane to create is not true, and he did that a few times against the Bulls. I am not going to re-watch the Bulls game on my 3rd time to point it out, but there are a few possessions he got to the heart of defense and draw fouls. And yet his average playmaking is pretty much the top on our team.

As for Banton, he is better, but not because of the offense, he plays both end, which is why he deserves minutes.

Dragic gets bodied. Too slow and too small right now at this stage of his career. He has so far shown leas creation than banton. Cant get into the lane as well as him and thats what we need to create open shots with our lack pf shooting. He’s also not high energy which is why Banton gives us a different look. And yes his defense has also been better than dragic, mainly bc of his length and quickness.

Dragic isn't showing less in creation, but since he cannot finish it, he needs a finisher, where we are limited in that aspect.

As for Banton, he won't create as often, as teams will play zone or play his driving lane and allow him to shoot.

I think we will play Banton more, not because Dragic isn't useful, but Banton fits our team (now and future). I still see Dragic being a good player off the bench, not as bad as you said that he cannot get to the driving lane. Dragic still able to playmake, creating wide open shot for Barnes to shoot the 3s, dropping to Birch, etc.

[Johnny Bball]

People were complaining about Fred over-dribbling/taking too long during the last 6 minutes or so.

There's some intentionality to that. Winning point guards know to start using up the entire shot clock when you're up by 15 points with under 10 minutes to play. One of the worst mistakes you can make is early shots in that situation. You can afford to come up empty on offensive possessions if you're also taking up 20 to 24 seconds each trip. The biggest mistake would be to force stuff early in the clock which opens up the opportunity for a faster comeback.

It's just another 'whatever fred does I'm gonna whine about it' thing.

This complaint has been going on for years about and I'm pretty sure I can tell you who exactly was posting that because... he's still not getting it.

I think that is a good point about eating up the clock when you are up but the goal should always be to get a quality shot to end each possession. FVV is a bit short and doesn't have the passing windows that the other bigger players do, so there are advantage to moving the ball to others.

I think this offense should not be dominated by the PG. These are newer non-traditional line-ups where you have potentially: FVV, OG, Barnes and in the future Siakam - that all can handle pass and score. Over-dribbling or usage should be aimed to be more equally spread out so we are not as predictable. I really like Banton's approach. He is fast in most cases and aiming to up the pace of the offense on possessions and he is willing to give the ball up earlier.

Are you for real? He’s shorter so he needs to shoot quicker in the clock? Honestly…you guys need to just stop with the vv stuff for a while when it comes to this.

And the offence isn’t dominated by the pg position.

[OAKLEY_2]

We are singing the praises of two 20 year olds 6'8 and 6'9, a 21 year old 6'8-9 and one 22 year who got paid quickly and is 6'5. We haven't even unwrapped the micro scale promise of David Johnson, Justin Champagnie or relocated Jalen Misdemeanor Harris. In there also as current afterthought is Flynn. I hope tonight we feature an expanded rotation but Nurse is not the type to let the foot off the gas. They are showing they do not need to rush Yuta or Paskal back as we need those minutes for the Barnes mob. The bench title is on indefinite hold.

[OAKLEY_2]

Prediction tonight Scottie reduced minutes. Banton DNP. Flynn 25 minutes. Dragic in with 16 mins. Fred 25 mins. Trent reduced load as well. Too much guard reliance on Fred.

[WuTang_CMB]

Saying Dragic never got in the lane to create is not true, and he did that a few times against the Bulls. I am not going to re-watch the Bulls game on my 3rd time to point it out, but there are a few possessions he got to the heart of defense and draw fouls. And yet his average playmaking is pretty much the top on our team.

As for Banton, he is better, but not because of the offense, he plays both end, which is why he deserves minutes.

Dragic gets bodied. Too slow and too small right now at this stage of his career. He has so far shown leas creation than banton. Cant get into the lane as well as him and thats what we need to create open shots with our lack pf shooting. He’s also not high energy which is why Banton gives us a different look. And yes his defense has also been better than dragic, mainly bc of his length and quickness.

Dragic isn't showing less in creation, but since he cannot finish it, he needs a finisher, where we are limited in that aspect.

As for Banton, he won't create as often, as teams will play zone or play his driving lane and allow him to shoot.

I think we will play Banton more, not because Dragic isn't useful, but Banton fits our team (now and future). I still see Dragic being a good player off the bench, not as bad as you said that he cannot get to the driving lane. Dragic still able to playmake, creating wide open shot for Barnes to shoot the 3s, dropping to Birch, etc.

Dragic is creating less than Banton, that's been clear. He can't get in the lane, which is what we need to get defences to move around.

I'm not hating on Dragic, we are just seeing what Nick is seeing and this Banton adjustment gives us a better boost

[Indeed]

Dragic gets bodied. Too slow and too small right now at this stage of his career. He has so far shown leas creation than banton. Cant get into the lane as well as him and thats what we need to create open shots with our lack pf shooting. He’s also not high energy which is why Banton gives us a different look. And yes his defense has also been better than dragic, mainly bc of his length and quickness.

Dragic isn't showing less in creation, but since he cannot finish it, he needs a finisher, where we are limited in that aspect.

As for Banton, he won't create as often, as teams will play zone or play his driving lane and allow him to shoot.

I think we will play Banton more, not because Dragic isn't useful, but Banton fits our team (now and future). I still see Dragic being a good player off the bench, not as bad as you said that he cannot get to the driving lane. Dragic still able to playmake, creating wide open shot for Barnes to shoot the 3s, dropping to Birch, etc.

Dragic is creating less than Banton, that's been clear. He can't get in the lane, which is what we need to get defences to move around.

I'm not hating on Dragic, we are just seeing what Nick is seeing and this Banton adjustment gives us a better boost

I said this again, Dragic can get to the heart of the defense. It is not on highlight, because he got foul, so if you didn't watch the Bulls game or the other one, you did not know.

You are clearly wrong, as I watched the Bulls game twice, and he draws defenders to the paint. He got to the line for that reason.

[WuTang_CMB]

Dragic isn't showing less in creation, but since he cannot finish it, he needs a finisher, where we are limited in that aspect.

As for Banton, he won't create as often, as teams will play zone or play his driving lane and allow him to shoot.

I think we will play Banton more, not because Dragic isn't useful, but Banton fits our team (now and future). I still see Dragic being a good player off the bench, not as bad as you said that he cannot get to the driving lane. Dragic still able to playmake, creating wide open shot for Barnes to shoot the 3s, dropping to Birch, etc.

Dragic is creating less than Banton, that's been clear. He can't get in the lane, which is what we need to get defences to move around.

I'm not hating on Dragic, we are just seeing what Nick is seeing and this Banton adjustment gives us a better boost

I said this again, Dragic can get to the heart of the defense. It is not on highlight, because he got foul, so if you didn't watch the Bulls game or the other one, you did not know.

You are clearly wrong, as I watched the Bulls game twice, and he draws defenders to the paint. He got to the line for that reason.

You keep spinning your wheels as usual. Banton is the better creator thus far and gets to the lane way better than Dragic who gets bodied and is too small. Not sure what you're watching.

[Indeed]

Dragic is creating less than Banton, that's been clear. He can't get in the lane, which is what we need to get defences to move around.

I'm not hating on Dragic, we are just seeing what Nick is seeing and this Banton adjustment gives us a better boost

I said this again, Dragic can get to the heart of the defense. It is not on highlight, because he got foul, so if you didn't watch the Bulls game or the other one, you did not know.

You are clearly wrong, as I watched the Bulls game twice, and he draws defenders to the paint. He got to the line for that reason.

You keep spinning your wheels as usual. Banton is the better creator thus far and gets to the lane way better than Dragic who gets bodied and is too small. Not sure what you're watching.

I post the initial discussion below, and perhaps you can tell me what exactly spinning the wheel you are referring to. It was regarding Dragic, and I have been consistently pointing out Dragic is able to get to the heart of defense and draw foul, where they were not on the stats nor hightlight.

1-0 without Dragic. What happened?

lol.. yep. He just wasnt it.

Banton provides energy and playmaking, Dragic doesn't. You need those things off the bench from your backup.

When you look at Banton, he's incredibly long, like freakish. Once he gets a shot, and improves his overall game/confidence, he's a starter in a winning team for sure, and that's huge value at 46.

Banton
Barnes
OG
Siakam
Birch/Precious

Would be interesting to see that in a year.

[WuTang_CMB]

I said this again, Dragic can get to the heart of the defense. It is not on highlight, because he got foul, so if you didn't watch the Bulls game or the other one, you did not know.

You are clearly wrong, as I watched the Bulls game twice, and he draws defenders to the paint. He got to the line for that reason.

You keep spinning your wheels as usual. Banton is the better creator thus far and gets to the lane way better than Dragic who gets bodied and is too small. Not sure what you're watching.

I post the initial discussion below, and perhaps you can tell me what exactly spinning the wheel you are referring to. It was regarding Dragic, and I have been consistently pointing out Dragic is able to get to the heart of defense and draw foul, where they were not on the stats nor hightlight.

1-0 without Dragic. What happened?

lol.. yep. He just wasnt it.

Banton provides energy and playmaking, Dragic doesn't. You need those things off the bench from your backup.

When you look at Banton, he's incredibly long, like freakish. Once he gets a shot, and improves his overall game/confidence, he's a starter in a winning team for sure, and that's huge value at 46.

Banton
Barnes
OG
Siakam
Birch/Precious

Would be interesting to see that in a year.

Because you are saying dragic is a good creator and gets in the lane to create when that hasnt been the case lol. Delano’s done a lot more creating in a fraction of the minutes. The team was struggling when dragic was running pg off the bench and our offense was stale. Its not so difficult to see that.

[Indeed]

You keep spinning your wheels as usual. Banton is the better creator thus far and gets to the lane way better than Dragic who gets bodied and is too small. Not sure what you're watching.

I post the initial discussion below, and perhaps you can tell me what exactly spinning the wheel you are referring to. It was regarding Dragic, and I have been consistently pointing out Dragic is able to get to the heart of defense and draw foul, where they were not on the stats nor hightlight.

lol.. yep. He just wasnt it.

Banton provides energy and playmaking, Dragic doesn't. You need those things off the bench from your backup.

When you look at Banton, he's incredibly long, like freakish. Once he gets a shot, and improves his overall game/confidence, he's a starter in a winning team for sure, and that's huge value at 46.

Banton
Barnes
OG
Siakam
Birch/Precious

Would be interesting to see that in a year.

Because you are saying dragic is a good creator and gets in the lane to create when that hasnt been the case lol. Delano’s done a lot more creating in a fraction of the minutes. The team was struggling when dragic was running pg off the bench and our offense was stale. Its not so difficult to see that.

Please re-watch the game, even league pass has the scoring of Dragic that highlight his scoring ws in the lane and half of them at rim.

The team was struggling because they can't finish, and we lacked size at SF.

[Dalek]

This complaint has been going on for years about and I'm pretty sure I can tell you who exactly was posting that because... he's still not getting it.

I think that is a good point about eating up the clock when you are up but the goal should always be to get a quality shot to end each possession. FVV is a bit short and doesn't have the passing windows that the other bigger players do, so there are advantage to moving the ball to others.

I think this offense should not be dominated by the PG. These are newer non-traditional line-ups where you have potentially: FVV, OG, Barnes and in the future Siakam - that all can handle pass and score. Over-dribbling or usage should be aimed to be more equally spread out so we are not as predictable. I really like Banton's approach. He is fast in most cases and aiming to up the pace of the offense on possessions and he is willing to give the ball up earlier.

Are you for real? He’s shorter so he needs to shoot quicker in the clock? Honestly…you guys need to just stop with the vv stuff for a while when it comes to this.

And the offence isn’t dominated by the pg position.

I think you are missing my point, but I am not saying FVV needs to shoot earlier - he just needs to get rid of the ball earlier and keep the offense moving.

He is 14th in the league in time of possession (6 secs) and 18th in dribbles per touch - https://www.nba.com/stats/players/touches/?sort=TIME_OF_POSS&dir=1

It is kind of interesting because he doesn't even bring the ball up court all the time so you are talking about him getting the ball in and around the 15 second range and eating up about 6 seconds dribbling and probing for a shot or pass. He has definitely had better games this season than others, but I think he has to rid himself of the notion that he has to keep the offense a float like Lowry did. There are good handlers and passers in the line-up.

[WuTang_CMB]

I post the initial discussion below, and perhaps you can tell me what exactly spinning the wheel you are referring to. It was regarding Dragic, and I have been consistently pointing out Dragic is able to get to the heart of defense and draw foul, where they were not on the stats nor hightlight.

Because you are saying dragic is a good creator and gets in the lane to create when that hasnt been the case lol. Delano’s done a lot more creating in a fraction of the minutes. The team was struggling when dragic was running pg off the bench and our offense was stale. Its not so difficult to see that.

Please re-watch the game, even league pass has the scoring of Dragic that highlight his scoring ws in the lane and half of them at rim.

The team was struggling because they can't finish, and we lacked size at SF.

Please re watch entire year. Banton has been much better at creating off the bench than dragic, thus why he didnt play last game. He so far has been a terrible fit im SL and bench for what we need.

[Yeezus_]

Prediction tonight Scottie reduced minutes. Banton DNP. Flynn 25 minutes. Dragic in with 16 mins. Fred 25 mins. Trent reduced load as well. Too much guard reliance on Fred.

Nurse isnt playing Fred 25 minutes unless this game is a blowout in the 2nd quarter. If anything it will be in the low 30s and thats still unlikely.

[Madhouse]

Prediction tonight Scottie reduced minutes. Banton DNP. Flynn 25 minutes. Dragic in with 16 mins. Fred 25 mins. Trent reduced load as well. Too much guard reliance on Fred.

Nurse isnt playing Fred 25 minutes unless this game is a blowout in the 2nd quarter. If anything it will be in the low 30s and thats still unlikely.

Blowout wouldn't shock me at all. This Raptors team is playing hard and if the shots are falling they are pretty good.