Zach Lowe: Ten things I like and don't like. GTJ

pilkoids · Post #21 » by **pilkoids** » Fri Oct 29, 2021 4:44 pm

I've been saying that GTJ has been giving me Rudy Gay vibes... there are times when the pass is so obvious it seems as though he deliberately doesn't pass.

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ForeverTFC · Post #22 » by **ForeverTFC** » Fri Oct 29, 2021 4:46 pm

Not to go off-topic but I really hate that good journalism is all pretty much behind paywalls these days. Don't get me wrong, they should be compensated for the awesome and differentiated work they do. But our society is having an information problem and non of the good stuff is accessible which leaves most folks with all the crap they read on facebook and watch on youtube.

Back on-topic: awesome write up though I just don't think Trent can pass.

Psubs · Post #23 » by **Psubs** » Fri Oct 29, 2021 4:47 pm

SharoneWright wrote:https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/32498018/zach-lowe-10-things-ja-morant-absurdity-lonely-star-brooklyn-julius-randle-new-life-msg

Lowe concise as always. Fred is maxed out is also right on target.

Fred can improve on his accuracy on lobs and passes in general.

SharoneWright · Post #24 » by **SharoneWright** » Fri Oct 29, 2021 4:49 pm

Psubs wrote:
SharoneWright wrote:https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/32498018/zach-lowe-10-things-ja-morant-absurdity-lonely-star-brooklyn-julius-randle-new-life-msg

Lowe concise as always. Fred is maxed out is also right on target.

Fred can improve on his accuracy on lobs and passes in general.

We can all hope!

Get back to me.

alienchild · Post #25 » by **alienchild** » Fri Oct 29, 2021 4:52 pm

ForeverTFC wrote:Not to go off-topic but I really hate that good journalism is all pretty much behind paywalls these days. Don't get me wrong, they should be compensated for the awesome and differentiated work they do. But our society is having an information problem and non of the good stuff is accessible which leaves most folks with all the crap they read on facebook and watch on youtube.

Back on-topic: awesome write up though I just don't think Trent can pass.

This wasn't behind a paywall. Much of what Lowe writes or podcast's is freely available. Just follow his twitter to know when things drop.

HomieOmey · Post #26 » by **HomieOmey** » Fri Oct 29, 2021 5:00 pm

Ball movement in general has been pretty ugly to watch. A lot of forced shots. OG has had some great moments recently, and he does look like a pretty perfect 3rd-5th starter, but watching FVV, OG, and GTJ together on offence is brutal when their shots aren't falling.

ForeverTFC · Post #27 » by **ForeverTFC** » Fri Oct 29, 2021 5:03 pm

alienchild wrote:
ForeverTFC wrote:Not to go off-topic but I really hate that good journalism is all pretty much behind paywalls these days. Don't get me wrong, they should be compensated for the awesome and differentiated work they do. But our society is having an information problem and non of the good stuff is accessible which leaves most folks with all the crap they read on facebook and watch on youtube.

Back on-topic: awesome write up though I just don't think Trent can pass.

This wasn't behind a paywall. Much of what Lowe writes or podcast's is freely available. Just follow his twitter to know when things drop.

Really? Why does it show as an Insider article for me?
https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/32498018/zach-lowe-10-things-ja-morant-absurdity-lonely-star-brooklyn-julius-randle-new-life-msg

vini_vidi_vici · Post #28 » by **vini_vidi_vici** » Fri Oct 29, 2021 5:03 pm

Psubs wrote:
SharoneWright wrote:https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/32498018/zach-lowe-10-things-ja-morant-absurdity-lonely-star-brooklyn-julius-randle-new-life-msg

Lowe concise as always. Fred is maxed out is also right on target.

Fred can improve on his accuracy on lobs and passes in general.

I love Lowe but I take issue with ppls interpretation and some of the narratives in this thread.

1) FVV has 15 bad passes (resulting in a TOV), over 306 passes, so youre complaining about ~5% of his passes lol. We get it, you dont like him, stick to the getting blocked at the rim (because even his FG% in the RA isnt that bad, 58.8FG%).

2) GTJ actually has a pretty good handle (as Lowe points out). He can create for himself, and create separation (in alot of ways, probably the best on the team). 40% of his FGM are unASTd. His issue of not passing is a likely a problem, but it could be he was designated a role, but I think its fair to be concerned about it. Him shooting well below career avgs over a 5 game sample (extremely small sample size) is hardly important.

SirKen · Post #29 » by **SirKen** » Fri Oct 29, 2021 5:03 pm

Spates wrote:
alienchild wrote:
SharoneWright wrote:https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/32498018/zach-lowe-10-things-ja-morant-absurdity-lonely-star-brooklyn-julius-randle-new-life-msg

Lowe concise as always. Fred is maxed out is also right on target.

You didn't understand the meaning of his comment.

Tell me more about what Lowe meant by that comment.

I think he's absolutely correct about Fred. When Fred's shot is on he looks like a stud. It opens things up for him a little as he has trouble effectively collapsing and scrambling a defense. He is easy to control in the paint and one of the worst finishers at the rim in the league. It is just a size and athleticism problem. They don't detract from his merits. Stellar defender that shoots fire from deep. If you told me he shoots 45% from 25 feet out I'd believe you.

I know it is unfair to compare Fred to Lowry but they are almost the same height and Lowry didn't have this problem as much. I think this was because Lowry prefers lay ups off of two feet, giving him better balance and an opportunity to shield the ball using his body. On the other hand, Fred tends to use more traditional lay-ups which makes him predictable and easy to block IMO.

ForeverTFC · Post #30 » by **ForeverTFC** » Fri Oct 29, 2021 5:11 pm

SirKen wrote:
Spates wrote:
alienchild wrote:
You didn't understand the meaning of his comment.

Tell me more about what Lowe meant by that comment.

I think he's absolutely correct about Fred. When Fred's shot is on he looks like a stud. It opens things up for him a little as he has trouble effectively collapsing and scrambling a defense. He is easy to control in the paint and one of the worst finishers at the rim in the league. It is just a size and athleticism problem. They don't detract from his merits. Stellar defender that shoots fire from deep. If you told me he shoots 45% from 25 feet out I'd believe you.

I know it is unfair to compare Fred to Lowry but they are almost the same height and Lowry didn't have this problem as much. I think this was because Lowry prefers lay ups off of two feet, giving him better balance and an opportunity to shield the ball using his body. On the other hand, Fred tends to use more traditional lay-ups which makes him predictable and easy to block IMO.

Lowry is a big body and very strong. Height isn't the only factor that gives the ability to get position on your defender.

vini_vidi_vici · Post #31 » by **vini_vidi_vici** » Fri Oct 29, 2021 5:11 pm

Heres some names shooting worse in the RA than FVV for perspective...

LBJ/DD/Vuc/Valanciunas/Tatum/Harden/Trae/Booker/Suggs/Russell/Dinwiddie/McCallom/Mitchell/Precious/Porz/Giddey/etc..

Tor_Raps · Post #32 » by **Tor_Raps** » Fri Oct 29, 2021 5:12 pm

Duffman100 wrote:My worry is, can Trent pass? How good at passing is he?

Is he more likely to ramp up his turnovers? I'd always rather a missed shot than a turnover.

It'd be nice if he recognizes this area of weakness and actually tries to work on it like have done with their weaknesses (OG dribbling, Barnes shooting, Siakam shooting, etc.). You only become better at an aspect when you identify the weakness and actually care about improving upon it.

Hes clearly not a good passer right now so I doubt anyone's asking him to thread the needle like Barnes. BUT he has enough ball handling to make more of the simple passes that he often doesn't, especially off the pick and roll.

Spates · Post #33 » by **Spates** » Fri Oct 29, 2021 5:15 pm

SirKen wrote:
Spates wrote:
alienchild wrote:
You didn't understand the meaning of his comment.

Tell me more about what Lowe meant by that comment.

I think he's absolutely correct about Fred. When Fred's shot is on he looks like a stud. It opens things up for him a little as he has trouble effectively collapsing and scrambling a defense. He is easy to control in the paint and one of the worst finishers at the rim in the league. It is just a size and athleticism problem. They don't detract from his merits. Stellar defender that shoots fire from deep. If you told me he shoots 45% from 25 feet out I'd believe you.

I know it is unfair to compare Fred to Lowry but they are almost the same height and Lowry didn't have this problem as much. I think this was because Lowry prefers lay ups off of two feet, giving him better balance and an opportunity to shield the ball using his body. On the other hand, Fred tends to use more traditional lay-ups which makes him predictable and easy to block IMO.

Yeah, Kyle is a bully in the paint. Great at using his body to get the defender out the way and to shield the ball. I also think Kyle has got a bit more explosion in him.

GLF · Post #34 » by **GLF** » Fri Oct 29, 2021 5:22 pm

People keep talking about Fred’s bad placement when passing, especially with lobs but do any of you remember how bad Kyle was at lob passes when he first arrived here. I don’t think many people remember that but Kyle improved his passing significantly while he was here. He probably was never as bad as Fred used to be but he definitely wasn’t as good as he ended up being while he was here. If he can improve it so can Fred and Fred is already showing improvement in that aspect

alienchild · Post #35 » by **alienchild** » Fri Oct 29, 2021 5:26 pm

ForeverTFC wrote:
alienchild wrote:
ForeverTFC wrote:Not to go off-topic but I really hate that good journalism is all pretty much behind paywalls these days. Don't get me wrong, they should be compensated for the awesome and differentiated work they do. But our society is having an information problem and non of the good stuff is accessible which leaves most folks with all the crap they read on facebook and watch on youtube.

Back on-topic: awesome write up though I just don't think Trent can pass.

This wasn't behind a paywall. Much of what Lowe writes or podcast's is freely available. Just follow his twitter to know when things drop.

Really? Why does it show as an Insider article for me?
https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/32498018/zach-lowe-10-things-ja-morant-absurdity-lonely-star-brooklyn-julius-randle-new-life-msg

Don't use the ESPN website. Just use his tweets, they usually connect directly to the article.

Spates · Post #36 » by **Spates** » Fri Oct 29, 2021 5:28 pm

vini_vidi_vici wrote:Heres some names shooting worse in the RA than FVV for perspective...

LBJ/DD/Vuc/Valanciunas/Tatum/Harden/Trae/Booker/Suggs/Russell/Dinwiddie/McCallom/Mitchell/Precious/Porz/Giddey/etc..

https://go.nba.com/uxm6

Go to Fred's 7th shot attempt. 1:32 left in the 2nd. That says everything about Fred's decision making under the rim.

Dunks and Threes has Fred at 44% under the rim last year. That's the 3rd percentile.

It's not something does at a high level.

Dalek · Post #37 » by **Dalek** » Fri Oct 29, 2021 5:35 pm

I hear what Zach is saying about Gary Trent Jr., but he also needs to get his shot on track. He is really out there to score in multiple situations and that needs to click to unlock Toronto's offense. He spreads the floor when he is on his hot streak.

Him missing two wide open threes last game where he had almost 3 seconds to shoot drove me more nuts than missing any pass. This guy should be shooting like Nick Young or JR Smith. I don't want him settling for awkward long twos, but any three pointer that is semi-open, he needs to take. The man is a 40% shooter and threes are Toronto's bread and butter.

Dalek · Post #38 » by **Dalek** » Fri Oct 29, 2021 5:40 pm

GLF wrote:People keep talking about Fred’s bad placement when passing, especially with lobs but do any of you remember how bad Kyle was at lob passes when he first arrived here. I don’t think many people remember that but Kyle improved his passing significantly while he was here. He probably was never as bad as Fred used to be but he definitely wasn’t as good as he ended up being while he was here. If he can improve it so can Fred and Fred is already showing improvement in that aspect

Achuiwa has to be partially to blame being the starter. He has bad hands like almost Biyombo level bad. He fumbles passes, and misses dunks at the rim. There is just something a bit off with his grip or attention. He has a 41% fieldgoal percentage and only 46% at the rim. It can't all be about FVV's pass placement.

VanWest82 · Post #39 » by **VanWest82** » Fri Oct 29, 2021 5:40 pm

Somehow this has turned into another Fred bashing thread. Food for thought: I remember when Derozan was 27 and everyone was claiming he'd already hit his ceiling as a passer, and yet the last two years he's practically doubled his assists since that time. Pretty sure it's a little early to say things like Fred's already maxed out as a play maker which I don't believe was Lowe's point.

vini_vidi_vici · Post #40 » by **vini_vidi_vici** » Fri Oct 29, 2021 5:41 pm

Spates wrote:
vini_vidi_vici wrote:Heres some names shooting worse in the RA than FVV for perspective...

LBJ/DD/Vuc/Valanciunas/Tatum/Harden/Trae/Booker/Suggs/Russell/Dinwiddie/McCallom/Mitchell/Precious/Porz/Giddey/etc..

https://go.nba.com/uxm6

Go to Fred's 7th shot attempt. 1:32 left in the 2nd. That says everything about Fred's decision making under the rim.

Dunks and Threes has Fred at 44% under the rim last year. That's the 3rd percentile.

It's not something does at a high level.

Im not sure what dunks and threes is, or what is defined as "under the rim" but...

He shot 50% in the RA last yr.