The Tomjas Thread

[Kobblehead]

Do you guys think Ben Simmons can’t play because of “mental health” issues? Or is it just being used as an excuse.

Excuse, of course.

I think its right if the entire league and the Sixers would investigate this matter. I do think its an issue bigger than Ben and Sixers.

The league should find a way to know if a player is just “faking” this mental health issues just to not do their part in their contract.

The league should find a way to penalize a player who isnt delivering their part of their contract (banning them temporarily or permanently).

Even just taking actions to these issues would scare the players straight and prevent bigger problems like having a scenario in the future where the 10 top tier stars in the league opts not to play and just enjoy their 100M per year contract because they have these “mental health” issues while you see them partying or going to london watching wimbledon matches or something.

They should do my suggestion:

Mandatory institutionalization for anyone that pulls the mental illness card.

[kuclas]

As long as sixers play bad teams or tread water above .500. No rush to trade Simmons. I’m sure there is medical insurance on Simmons contract. Health includes mental illness. Similar to Chris bosh blood clot provision for salary cap relief.

Where they can medically retire Simmons and he can’t play again forever. Unless he wants to give back the insurance company money they paid the sixers. Than play again.

We dealing with Morey here. He don’t play around.

[TheBallsDeeper]

Excuse, of course.

I think its right if the entire league and the Sixers would investigate this matter. I do think its an issue bigger than Ben and Sixers.

The league should find a way to know if a player is just “faking” this mental health issues just to not do their part in their contract.

The league should find a way to penalize a player who isnt delivering their part of their contract (banning them temporarily or permanently).

Even just taking actions to these issues would scare the players straight and prevent bigger problems like having a scenario in the future where the 10 top tier stars in the league opts not to play and just enjoy their 100M per year contract because they have these “mental health” issues while you see them partying or going to london watching wimbledon matches or something.

They should do my suggestion:

Mandatory institutionalization for anyone that pulls the mental illness card.

People suffering mental illness do not necessarily need to be admitted to an institution for treatment. To suggest they should, or that they are all faking it and this will be a deterrent is a terrible idea.

There are players that would have genuine mental health issues, and I'm sure a small minority that use it as an excuse that can not be questioned. Unfortunately we have to put up with the later to ensure there is the right support for those that need it.

[76ciology]

Excuse, of course.

I think its right if the entire league and the Sixers would investigate this matter. I do think its an issue bigger than Ben and Sixers.

The league should find a way to know if a player is just “faking” this mental health issues just to not do their part in their contract.

The league should find a way to penalize a player who isnt delivering their part of their contract (banning them temporarily or permanently).

Even just taking actions to these issues would scare the players straight and prevent bigger problems like having a scenario in the future where the 10 top tier stars in the league opts not to play and just enjoy their 100M per year contract because they have these “mental health” issues while you see them partying or going to london watching wimbledon matches or something.

They should do my suggestion:

Mandatory institutionalization for anyone that pulls the mental illness card.

Possibly. Or strict investigation where a player has to attend daily therapy sessions with highly supervised movements where a NBA personnel will check on him daily which would be said for the player’s safety or the safety of the community.

Personally, we’ll never know if his mental illness is real. But changing his excuse from back injury to mental illness aftee the team imposed a fine where his management were surprised with how big the fine was is very fishy to me. And making mental illness as an excuse is a very serious offense that could hurt other players who REALLY suffers from mental illness.

[DaBolden76]

Yes, many people seek professional help and many of them don't have mental illness. Also being afraid to play because the fans might boo you is not mental illness. If I would guess, I'd say Ben has narcissistic traits and anxiety issues, and he had troubles coping with all of this mess with his sister. But none of that would qualify as a clinical disorder, he could have been in treatment for all that and still at least attend practices. But of course this is just guessing...And the timing makes it very suspect.

Anxiety is a mental illness. From my studies and work, I don’t see the narcissistic traits. At times I have suspected he’s depressed by his body language. He may have some OCD traits as he’s afraid to fail.

[Tomjas]

Some of you guys obviously live in an alternate universe where everyone advertises the fact they are getting help with their mental health

Our world doesn’t work that way

[Foshan]

Yes, many people seek professional help and many of them don't have mental illness. Also being afraid to play because the fans might boo you is not mental illness. If I would guess, I'd say Ben has narcissistic traits and anxiety issues, and he had troubles coping with all of this mess with his sister. But none of that would qualify as a clinical disorder, he could have been in treatment for all that and still at least attend practices. But of course this is just guessing...And the timing makes it very suspect.

Anxiety is a mental illness. From my studies and work, I don’t see the narcissistic traits. At times I have suspected he’s depressed by his body language. He may have some OCD traits as he’s afraid to fail.

Just curious, are you in the mental health field? (I'm not, so just curious if you are)
My uninformed observation would lean toward a narcissist who is struggling with the reality he was dealt at the end of last year.
- inability to accept blame
- self-important
- desire for fame/status
- convinced of own uniqueness/specialness
- entitled
- envious of others (Embiid?)
- arrogant, frustrated angry when confronted
Again, i'm not a professional... but how do those things not point to narcosis?

[DCasey91]

Yes, many people seek professional help and many of them don't have mental illness. Also being afraid to play because the fans might boo you is not mental illness. If I would guess, I'd say Ben has narcissistic traits and anxiety issues, and he had troubles coping with all of this mess with his sister. But none of that would qualify as a clinical disorder, he could have been in treatment for all that and still at least attend practices. But of course this is just guessing...And the timing makes it very suspect.

Anxiety is a mental illness. From my studies and work, I don’t see the narcissistic traits. At times I have suspected he’s depressed by his body language. He may have some OCD traits as he’s afraid to fail.

You don’t? Narcissistic people can’t handle criticism it’s one of the symptoms

Even before all of this stuff happened have a look at his comments/retorts. He maybe quiet sure but he’s full of himself. See the Gobert thing etc etc.

Could be anxiety who knows, did you see him train with the phone in his pocket not giving a f? That’s classic narcissism.

I know for a fact people with anxiety disorders don’t act like Ben. I’ve known their trigger points or when it’s getting nervy for years now. It’s pretty serious stuff here

Could be OCD but once again he gets riled up by non OCD stuff. Random times and random game one dunk boom Ben is angry and ready to go.

You want OCD traits? Check through Embiid’s FT routine. Westbrook’s one before the rule change they are both very orderly when it comes to the line, miss same hands up knee to the ground action talking to himself every single time.

Could be depressed but that’s still a long way from being diagnosed with depression

Well what do you know

[76ciology]

Morey: “Ben, players dont get to the line like before, it’s now safe to play”

[Zumramania]

Yes, many people seek professional help and many of them don't have mental illness. Also being afraid to play because the fans might boo you is not mental illness. If I would guess, I'd say Ben has narcissistic traits and anxiety issues, and he had troubles coping with all of this mess with his sister. But none of that would qualify as a clinical disorder, he could have been in treatment for all that and still at least attend practices. But of course this is just guessing...And the timing makes it very suspect.

Anxiety is a mental illness. From my studies and work, I don’t see the narcissistic traits. At times I have suspected he’s depressed by his body language. He may have some OCD traits as he’s afraid to fail.

Yes, I meant subclinical anxiety, I don't think he has an anxiety disorder, like social anxiety disorder, OCD, generalized anxiety disorder. These disorders usually start earlier in life, so he would have been in treatment for years, and besides they look differently, more extreme, than what Ben is exhibiting in my opinion. I don't see how OCD is related to the fear of failure, fear of failure is a general problem that many people face, it can be related to anxiety or depression, but I don't see the specific connection to OCD.

As per narcissistic traits, here is the DSM-5 definition of Narcissistic personality disorder so judge for yourself.

The DSM-5 indicates that a person with Narcissistic personality disorder possess at least five of the following nine criteria:
1. A grandiose sense of self-importance,
2. Preoccupation with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love,
3. Believing that they are "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions),
4. Requiring excessive admiration,
5. A sense of entitlement (unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with their expectations)
6. Being interpersonally exploitative (taking advantage of others to achieve their own ends),
7. Lacking empathy (unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others)
8. Often being envious of others or believing that others are envious of them,
9. Showing arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes".

[Samson]

I have a lot of contempt for the "Mental Illness Card" because this is something that fires me up. I have dealt with mental illness in the family my entire life - BOTH SIDES of my family have problems and pretty much every damn person in my family is messed up in some way. In retrospect, I got off relatively easy - I had a very big ego in my youth (pretty much gone with age, experience, and failures) and I am what is popularly known as a drunk. Compared to others in my family, I'm like all good woohoo!

I have been harping on mental illness to people my entire life, trying to help where I can, pointing out problems to others ("Hey man, that's not normal to think that, etc.") - but right around a decade or so ago, people did a 180 - suddenly you could just throw that card out there ... "Yeah, I screamed and yelled at punched the hot dog vendor for putting too many onions on, and yes, he died, but what I need to do is focus on my Mental Health and continue to get better every day..." - no , you need to go to prison for murder... We saw this with that lady model who isn't even good looking but is world famous for being good looking? what's her named, she's married to that singer... Chrissy something maybe? Turns out she's been a huge bully her entire life, saying disgusting stuff to everyone for fun, and when she starts losing money because of endorsements drying up etc. "I have to focus on my mental health..."

Where I'm going with this is, IMHO, and I think this is something that people of every type, race, religion, color, creed, favorite food-fans and favorite sports teams should get behind equally - you can't just use Mental Health as an excuse for every damn thing... "I can't come to work today... I hurt my psyche... but you still have to pay me..." ... "I punched a girl in the face at the bar because she wouldn't accept my offer of a free drink and a hump... but ... I know I have some things to work on, so I am sorry if I have offended anyone... " you gonna arrest that dude, right? "well no, he's Mentally Ill, he has a Get Out Of Jail Free Card..."

And pro athletes are * the worst * ... I remember Ricky Williams saying how he hated to play football because he felt like everyone in the stadium was watching him... THEY ARE, DUDE, THAT'S THE DEAL, THEY PAY BIG MONEY ON TICKETS AND BANKRUPTCY-LEVEL PRICES FOR BEER AND HOT DOGS, in order to watch you play a child's game. You too, Simmons. We get it . You're a spoiled brat mazillionaire and want to play with LeBron. Too bad, soo sad, do not pass Go, do not collect your $350 million , STFU and go shoot the basketball.

[Stanford]

I remember Ricky Williams saying how he hated to play football because he felt like everyone in the stadium was watching him...

He's just describing what anxiety feels like.

[kuclas]

Some of you guys obviously live in an alternate universe where everyone advertises the fact they are getting help with their mental health

Our world doesn’t work that way

People do what to give Simmons the benefit of the doubt. But the way it played out all summer. All the leaks from klutch sports (and leaks from sixers organizations). But klutch if they had said ben not mentally there in the summer. We would buy the excuse.

But no. They said ben would sit out the entire year (assuming he would get paid)

But turned out he didn’t get paid So he showed up. Barley went through the motions.

Than fakes the back injury THAN FINALLY said it’s mental.

Extremely hard to believe. When mentally illness we all take seriously these days. We want to believe the good in people. That they are suffering.

But klutch and ben don’t really deserve the benefit of the doubt in this case

[fkd215]

People suffering mental illness do not necessarily need to be admitted to an institution for treatment. To suggest they should, or that they are all faking it and this will be a deterrent is a terrible idea.

There are players that would have genuine mental health issues, and I'm sure a small minority that use it as an excuse that can not be questioned. Unfortunately we have to put up with the later to ensure there is the right support for those that need it.

1000x this.

The Sixers could demand an eval by a forensic psychologist or psychiatrist to assess for malingering. But that helps no one, and sets up a horrible dynamic for how we think about people who have mental health concerns.

As a sixers fan I'm frustrated by the whole thing. But questioning the reality of Ben's claims about being mentally ready don't help anyone. _Something_ happened mid season last year, exacerbating his shooting-phobia and causing his FT% to plummet, which then made him less and less likely to initiate contact and draw fouls. It doesn't seem to have been a physical injury. The best possibility for a good outcome for everyone is to offer him the help he needs. If he engages it and puts work in to get over this fear of failing at the line and shooting/missing in general, he can tap his potential, and either contribute more to the team or draw a better return in a trade. Everyone wins.

[Kobblehead]

People suffering mental illness do not necessarily need to be admitted to an institution for treatment. To suggest they should, or that they are all faking it and this will be a deterrent is a terrible idea.

There are players that would have genuine mental health issues, and I'm sure a small minority that use it as an excuse that can not be questioned. Unfortunately we have to put up with the later to ensure there is the right support for those that need it.

Sports is not society. These are alpha personalities and alpha competitors. There's millions of dollars at play.

If a player pulls the mental illness card, he absolutely should be institutionalized to ensure the CBA is not being taken advantage of.

[76ciology]

I have a lot of contempt for the "Mental Illness Card" because this is something that fires me up. I have dealt with mental illness in the family my entire life - BOTH SIDES of my family have problems and pretty much every damn person in my family is messed up in some way. In retrospect, I got off relatively easy - I had a very big ego in my youth (pretty much gone with age, experience, and failures) and I am what is popularly known as a drunk. Compared to others in my family, I'm like all good woohoo!

I have been harping on mental illness to people my entire life, trying to help where I can, pointing out problems to others ("Hey man, that's not normal to think that, etc.") - but right around a decade or so ago, people did a 180 - suddenly you could just throw that card out there ... "Yeah, I screamed and yelled at punched the hot dog vendor for putting too many onions on, and yes, he died, but what I need to do is focus on my Mental Health and continue to get better every day..." - no , you need to go to prison for murder... We saw this with that lady model who isn't even good looking but is world famous for being good looking? what's her named, she's married to that singer... Chrissy something maybe? Turns out she's been a huge bully her entire life, saying disgusting stuff to everyone for fun, and when she starts losing money because of endorsements drying up etc. "I have to focus on my mental health..."

Where I'm going with this is, IMHO, and I think this is something that people of every type, race, religion, color, creed, favorite food-fans and favorite sports teams should get behind equally - you can't just use Mental Health as an excuse for every damn thing... "I can't come to work today... I hurt my psyche... but you still have to pay me..." ... "I punched a girl in the face at the bar because she wouldn't accept my offer of a free drink and a hump... but ... I know I have some things to work on, so I am sorry if I have offended anyone... " you gonna arrest that dude, right? "well no, he's Mentally Ill, he has a Get Out Of Jail Free Card..."

And pro athletes are * the worst * ... I remember Ricky Williams saying how he hated to play football because he felt like everyone in the stadium was watching him... THEY ARE, DUDE, THAT'S THE DEAL, THEY PAY BIG MONEY ON TICKETS AND BANKRUPTCY-LEVEL PRICES FOR BEER AND HOT DOGS, in order to watch you play a child's game. You too, Simmons. We get it . You're a spoiled brat mazillionaire and want to play with LeBron. Too bad, soo sad, do not pass Go, do not collect your $350 million , STFU and go shoot the basketball.

Totally agree with everything you said.

And I wish everything is fine with you and your family.

[RedSalsa]

Can we Please stop with all this mental illness bull. The only reason they’re doing it is so he gets paid and shame on Ben Simmons and his people for using a serious thing like mental illness to get paid. He’s not mentally ill he’s afraid to show up in front of the Philadelphia crowd he’s mentally weak. Shame on you Ben!

[Samson]

Totally agree with everything you said.

And I wish everything is fine with you and your family.

Brother, thank you very, very much, that means the world to me.

As far as my family... I'm getting old, I'm 40, a lot of the worst is behind me. Some of them are out there in the world and just, *out there* ... some are the type that they think it's fine, everything's fine, go back to your own business, how are you??! And some are I guess like me, everyone's got problems, right, no big deal, just deal with it.

I just hate to see it used as a shield - certainly, there are times it can be perfectly valid. I am not afraid of very many things in life- I'm not very tall, but I guess I just don't get scared of things other people do. But I'm deathly afraid of spiders. You start Spider-Torturing me, I'm going to be crying out Mental Illness or whatever else you want me to cry out right away. But if I said , "I can't come to work today, I saw a spider yesterday" ... I can't expect my boss to not only not be upset, but pay me, regularly, as long as I want. And if it was a SPECIFIC THING - just spit-balling - "I saw a terrible car accident last night, I am *messed up in the head and heart and soul* right now" - I understand. Just, "Well, I never really wanted to be a 76er to begin with, I've bided my time, signed my SuperMax, now I've made my move... got you suckas.." ... steams me up. Especially since I would GIVE MY HEART & SOUL for a shot to play *any sport* for the Vet minimum and I would GIVE THE FANS THEIR MONIES WORTH with my effort. I might SUCK, but I'll be diving for out-of-bounds balls and D'ing up and all that stuff and be GLAD TO DO IT, consider it hitting the Life Lottery. When you *actually* hit the Life Lottery for a few hundred million dollars, you gotta suck some stuff up bros.

Again thank you , sorry for ranting.

[Stanford]

Part of my job as a mod is to flag posters to be institutionalized

[Bum Adebayo]

People suffering mental illness do not necessarily need to be admitted to an institution for treatment. To suggest they should, or that they are all faking it and this will be a deterrent is a terrible idea.

There are players that would have genuine mental health issues, and I'm sure a small minority that use it as an excuse that can not be questioned. Unfortunately we have to put up with the later to ensure there is the right support for those that need it.

Sports is not society. These are alpha personalities and alpha competitors. There's millions of dollars at play.

Simmons is not though...
He is only alpha around girls, but on the court he is a beta.