Pat Williams Discussion - Out 4-6 Mo (late Feb to late April)

[Chi town]

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I think that is good news for Pat. While surgery sucks....it might not have been a catastrophic injury.


But that is horrible news for the Bulls unless he is closer to returning in 4 months.
Play-offs start mid April..that is 5 1/2 months away. He would need time to get his legs and conditioning.

If he out for that long, he might as well be out for the season and I would rather have the DPE. But if he is coming back in 4 months, that isn't too long after the All-Star break.
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Last time we had a player in this position, he didn't come back for the play-offs, even though medically cleared.

Here’s to hoping for 4 months and hooping again in March.

[panthermark]

Does anyone know if Pat is lefty or righty?

He's right handed.

[GoBlue72391]

Robinson got a flagrant foul for hitting Patrick in the face as he jumped toward the basket for a dunk. Now Patrick is out for the season. Don't come here trying to minimize what Robinson did.

Honestly I don't think Mitch was trying to hurt him. It was a dangerous play but it's a contact sport and sometimes these types of plays happen. It sucks but it really didn't seem intentionally reckless.

I really hope PW can recover from this both physically and mentally. Kris Dunn was never the same after landing on his face. PW has had issues with being aggresive, and when he finally goes up to show some of that aggression, he's out for the season.

Robinson may not have acted with intent to harm PWill, but he sure as hell acted recklessly. He knew that, by going up to meet Pat in the air like that, that he was going to hit Pat hard, which was likely to cause Pat to land awkwardly. Robinson well knew that an injury like Pat's is a not uncommon result when you make the play that he did.

It's a contact sport dude, you can't expect an opposing player to put our player's health and safety above making a play for his team ffs. I don't think there were any harmful intentions on Robinson's part. It's just an unfortunate outcome.

[fleet]

Saying no to Theis, Thad, and Nance always felt like a mistake to me. It's feeling worse now.

As does moving on from Lauri. I have to think that, given that it looks like he's solidified his ability to play the 3 and is blossoming into a good defender, he would be a perfect fit for this team.

At the risk of opening up this can of you know what again, who is making these assessments?

[bad knees]

Honestly I don't think Mitch was trying to hurt him. It was a dangerous play but it's a contact sport and sometimes these types of plays happen. It sucks but it really didn't seem intentionally reckless.

I really hope PW can recover from this both physically and mentally. Kris Dunn was never the same after landing on his face. PW has had issues with being aggresive, and when he finally goes up to show some of that aggression, he's out for the season.

Robinson may not have acted with intent to harm PWill, but he sure as hell acted recklessly. He knew that, by going up to meet Pat in the air like that, that he was going to hit Pat hard, which was likely to cause Pat to land awkwardly. Robinson well knew that an injury like Pat's is a not uncommon result when you make the play that he did.

It's a contact sport dude, you can't expect an opposing player to put our player's health and safety above making a play for his team ffs. I don't think there were any harmful intentions on Robinson's part. It's just an unfortunate outcome.

The fact that basketball players and fans expect and allow reckless acts to occur does not mean that the acts are any less reckless. Yeah we see the sort of aggression that we saw from Robinson quite often. And players like Pat will continue to be injured. I guess we generally are okay with that. But when presented with the cost of the aggression in such a direct way, it makes me think that a rule change is in order.

[Andi Obst]

Saying no to Theis, Thad, and Nance always felt like a mistake to me. It's feeling worse now.

As does moving on from Lauri. I have to think that, given that it looks like he's solidified his ability to play the 3 and is blossoming into a good defender, he would be a perfect fit for this team.

At the risk of opening up this can of you know what again, who is making these assessments?

I assume it’s the same people who said "Andre Drummond is for real this time!" when the Cavs started well last season.

[GoBlue72391]

Saying no to Theis, Thad, and Nance always felt like a mistake to me. It's feeling worse now.

As does moving on from Lauri. I have to think that, given that it looks like he's solidified his ability to play the 3 and is blossoming into a good defender, he would be a perfect fit for this team.

At the risk of opening up this can of you know what again, who is making these assessments?

NBA Twitter. and I've been watching the Cavs games when the Bulls aren't playing. Over the past 3 games as the primary defender against PG, MPJ, and DeAndre Hunter they went a combined 15-50 for 35 points.

The Cavs are 3-2 starting Lauri at SF. His shots aren't right now, but they will eventually. I know it's a moot point as that ship has long since sailed, I just think this current version of Lauri would be close to an ideal fit for this team.

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[GoBlue72391]

As does moving on from Lauri. I have to think that, given that it looks like he's solidified his ability to play the 3 and is blossoming into a good defender, he would be a perfect fit for this team.

At the risk of opening up this can of you know what again, who is making these assessments?

I assume it’s the same people who said "Andre Drummond is for real this time!" when the Cavs started well last season.

I mean yeah, small sample size definitely applies, but in the past guys like PG and MPJ would have cooked Lauri for 40+.

[GoBlue72391]

Robinson may not have acted with intent to harm PWill, but he sure as hell acted recklessly. He knew that, by going up to meet Pat in the air like that, that he was going to hit Pat hard, which was likely to cause Pat to land awkwardly. Robinson well knew that an injury like Pat's is a not uncommon result when you make the play that he did.

It's a contact sport dude, you can't expect an opposing player to put our player's health and safety above making a play for his team ffs. I don't think there were any harmful intentions on Robinson's part. It's just an unfortunate outcome.

The fact that basketball players and fans expect and allow reckless acts to occur does not mean that the acts are any less reckless. Yeah we see the sort of aggression that we saw from Robinson quite often. And players like Pat will continue to be injured. I guess we generally are okay with that. But when presented with the cost of the aggression in such a direct way, it makes me think that a rule change is in order.

While I understand your concern, I personally don't think any more rule changes to make the game even softer are needed.

[fleet]

Last I looked MPJ had 46 points in his first 4 games

[GoBlue72391]

I don’t know that he’s ready, but maybe Simonovic gets some minor minutes?

I doubt it. He didn't even get minutes in the preseason and guys like Green, TBJ, DJJ, Bradley, etc. are all ahead of him.

[bad knees]

One positive fact based on reading about these injuries: I guess these injuries often go undiagnosed for long periods of time, which really exacerbates the recovery once they are identified. The Bulls' medical team diagnosed Pat accurately and quickly, which will give him his best chance for recovery. After the injury, Pat made two free throws (using his uninjured right wrist) and played for 38 seconds until he came out of the game. So the medical team was able to intervene and make the diagnosis before any aggravating injury could occur (at least let's hope).

[GoBlue72391]

2 way players are Devon Dotson (G) and Tyler Cook (F). Cook is the obvious like for like to bring in. I assume he gets a short term look?

Bulls need to waive someone to add a new player.
- Does this include 2 way players?
- If they waive a 2 way player can they add someone new that way?

Curious how all that works.

No, 2-way players are separate from the main roster.

[GoBlue72391]

There’s probably a chance we bring Stanley Johnson back…

Yeah, bringing him back after cutting Matt Thomas is probably the most likely course of action. At least for the short term.

[fleet]

MPJ has 53 points in 5 games. Lauri covers a lot of ground

[GoBlue72391]

I am learning a lot about the posters here as I read the reactions to PWill's devastating injury. He may well never play basketball again. He may be disabled for life. Yes, it's that serious. Get your heads and hearts right, friends.

Is it really that serious? From what I saw, the hope is to possibly have him back for the playoffs. I've been hard on PWill, which I think is justified, and I've never been a big believer in him as a future difference-maker as I saw him more as a high-end role player, but taking potshots at him while he's injured and blaming his lack of aggression as the cause of the injury is absurd.

By all accounts he seems like a fantastic young man and a really hard worker, so while you never want to see anyone get hurt, this one especially stings. I of course wish him nothing but the best on his road to recovery.

[G R E Y]

Hey Bulls fans.

Sorry to hear about the bad PatWill news. I hope he makes a full recovery. His youth works in his favour for it. As does his work to get back.

Touching off of that, I'm quite surprised to read about the disappointment in him overall, and the range in career projections already falling from the early hype. I'm also surprised that it's his motor that sometimes comes into question.

I thought that even though he was a #4 pick he would have been brought along a bit more slowly because he was so young and inexperienced even at the college level. The physical profile and skill set are tantalizing, but work ethic never came up as a issue from what I'd read about him for that draft. I didn't expect him to start and I wonder whether putting him in that position was a bit overwhelming and whether doing so was in part because he was drafted so high.

I wonder, too, whether his dropping off at times was a function of both being put in too big a leap expectation and also being now a starter but as a fourth option, so it's like his position on the team was demoted. I wonder if he saw it that way rather than the team getting the help any team would if given a chance to upgrade.

Just seems like there have been a lot of factors contributing to his up and down level of play and effort/execution.

Anyway, I hope he heals well and fully and he maximizes his potential with your team. I still think he's a tremendous prospect.

[GoBlue72391]

Pat might have had a life changing injury last night and the fact that y’all are still talking about his play this year is disturbing. He may never see another nba game. Let not forget there are ppl in those uniforms with families and dreams.

I'm not a doctor and I'm not going to pretend like I am, and while I'm sure it is a serious injury, the worry that it could be career-ending seems out of left field to me as it's a wrist injury on his non-shooting hand and from the Bulls own PR the hope is apparently to have him back in time for the playoffs. I'm not sure I've ever heard of a career-ending wrist injury. Not saying it's not possible, just as a layman that would be a pretty shocking result.

[panthermark]

Hey Bulls fans.

Sorry to hear about the bad PatWill news. I hope he makes a full recovery. His youth works in his favour for it. As does his work to get back.

Touching off of that, I'm quite surprised to read about the disappointment in him overall, and the range in career projections already falling from the early hype. I'm also surprised that it's his motor that sometimes comes into question.

I thought that even though he was a #4 pick he would have been brought along a bit more slowly because he was so young and inexperienced even at the college level. The physical profile and skill set are tantalizing, but work ethic never came up as a issue from what I'd read about him for that draft. I didn't expect him to start and I wonder whether putting him in that position was a bit overwhelming and whether doing so was in part because he was drafted so high.

I wonder, too, whether his dropping off at times was a function of both being put in too big a leap expectation and also being now a starter but as a fourth option, so it's like his position on the team was demoted. I wonder if he saw it that way rather than the team getting the help any team would if given a chance to upgrade.

Just seems like there have been a lot of factors contributing to his up and down level of play and effort/execution.

Anyway, I hope he heals well and fully and he maximizes his potential with your team. I still think he's a tremendous prospect.

It isn't his work ethic in question. I don't think he is a guy that slacks off, but he can be very......passive at times.

The other thing not mentioned is the team structure. When he was drafted, our gigantic hole was at SF. A year later, he is sorta being shoe-horned in at PF. Bulls didn't do him any favors.

[Wingy]

Been very critical of Pat’s play and future prospects lately, and this is super sad to see. Empathize for the human being. Heal well young fella so you get a chance to prove me wrong.

Though, this type of thing makes it seem like it’s sadly just not meant to be for Pat. One of the many, many^many, manyeth power that probably won’t have a particularly notable NBA career.