Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc 4.0

[Resistance]

I wouldn't trade DFS and Kleber for Barnes. You're not alone there, Chuck, I think they're real good role-players too. Worth a lot more together than Barnes is by himself.

I would tell you that these two teams are not a good match if that’s the package. The Kings will not split up their top-end talent. They need more top-end talent.

Barnes is not top end talent..

You are responding to something that wasn't written.

************

At the moment, Barnes is one of their best players.

[Apz]

Kings need barnes to do things for their offense, in mavs that woould be much less needed. While DFS and Kleber is great defensive players for mavs that got roles for the offense that suits them. Like, Kleber had 12p oints 10 rebounds and 6 blocks last night, shot 4/8 from 3. That fits the mavs. They dont really need to risk getting birdcage barnes back.

[eminence]

The base deal I was mentally trying to balance was this (it is not currently balanced)

GS In: Hield/DFS
GS Out: Wiggins/???

SAC In: Wiggins/Kleber/???
SAC Out: Hield/Barnes

DAL In: Barnes
DAL Out: Kleber/DFS

I view those as pretty much the perfect 2/3 to fill for the Warriors until Klay (hopefully) returns to form. Sac gets an asset of some sort while maintaining a fairly competitive roster. Mavs get the best player in the deal.

Also considered variations with Kleber to GS, but SAC seems pretty focused on making a playoff push.

Would a Wiseman for Bagley swap get it done for the Kings? The Mavs seem reluctant for the base.

[Texas Chuck]

The base deal I was mentally trying to balance was this (it is not currently balanced)

GS In: Hield/DFS
GS Out: Wiggins/???

SAC In: Wiggins/Kleber/???
SAC Out: Hield/Barnes

DAL In: Barnes
DAL Out: Kleber/DFS

I view those as pretty much the perfect 2/3 to fill for the Warriors until Klay (hopefully) returns to form. Sac gets an asset of some sort while maintaining a fairly competitive roster. Mavs get the best player in the deal.

Would a Wiseman for Bagley swap get it done for the Kings? The Mavs seem reluctant for the base.

I think this is a reasonable structure. But if Kings fans don't want Maxi/DFS for Barnes I think whatever that ? is will have to be pretty enticing for them to give up Barnes/Buddy for Wiggins/? Because I would guess they'd rather have Maxi/DFS than just Wiggins and if they don't want that for just Barnes and now they give up Hield too?

For Dallas I personally don't like it because those are my favorite 2 Mavs. Some Dallas fans probably don't like it because like many W's fans there is this strange animosity towards Barnes I don't understand. But again I'm kinda guessing here on value since I know my bias kicks in, but I think this has to be pretty close to reasonable value wise for Dallas.

I don't know how Kings fans feel about Wiseman. I know they really like Holmes though. Not sure if GSW would do Kuminga, but I feel like that probably gets it done.

The other issue here is Dallas has to send out more salary. Trey Burke is big enough, but with his 2nd year I'm guessing WCS is more attractive to whichever other team takes him. And then Dallas needs to find another center who can defend or count on Moses Brown which feels dicey.

[eminence]

The base deal I was mentally trying to balance was this (it is not currently balanced)

GS In: Hield/DFS
GS Out: Wiggins/???

SAC In: Wiggins/Kleber/???
SAC Out: Hield/Barnes

DAL In: Barnes
DAL Out: Kleber/DFS

I view those as pretty much the perfect 2/3 to fill for the Warriors until Klay (hopefully) returns to form. Sac gets an asset of some sort while maintaining a fairly competitive roster. Mavs get the best player in the deal.

Would a Wiseman for Bagley swap get it done for the Kings? The Mavs seem reluctant for the base.

I think this is a reasonable structure. But if Kings fans don't want Maxi/DFS for Barnes I think whatever that ? is will have to be pretty enticing for them to give up Barnes/Buddy for Wiggins/? Because I would guess they'd rather have Maxi/DFS than just Wiggins and if they don't want that for just Barnes and now they give up Hield too?

For Dallas I personally don't like it because those are my favorite 2 Mavs. Some Dallas fans probably don't like it because like many W's fans there is this strange animosity towards Barnes I don't understand. But again I'm kinda guessing here on value since I know my bias kicks in, but I think this has to be pretty close to reasonable value wise for Dallas.

I don't know how Kings fans feel about Wiseman. I know they really like Holmes though. Not sure if GSW would do Kuminga, but I feel like that probably gets it done.

The other issue here is Dallas has to send out more salary. Trey Burke is big enough, but with his 2nd year I'm guessing WCS is more attractive to whichever other team takes him. And then Dallas needs to find another center who can defend or count on Moses Brown which feels dicey.

I think I'd be willing to send to Kuminga to the Kings in a version where Kleber came to GS.

Oddly GS and DAL could do a WCS for Looney swap to make the salary work even though it technically adds salary to the Mavs.

[eminence]

Is there a 4th team that could send back useful guys for Wiseman/Bagley?

[Takingbaconback]

I don't know why the Kings would want to flip Hield and Barnes for Wiggins and Kleiber. They give up two better players for two worse ones.

[Resistance]

Is there a 4th team that could send back useful guys for Wiseman/Bagley?

With it being so early in the season, there are only going to be a limited number of teams ready to throw in the towel and start looking to the future rather than try and compete now.

I have to think about it, but the market for project Bigs could be soft.

[MoneyTalks41890]

I don't know why the Kings would want to flip Hield and Barnes for Wiggins and Kleiber. They give up two better players for two worse ones.

I think Buddy for Wiggins is good for the Kings. Wiggins is an ok two way guy who can play SF better than any other guy save Barnes (who seems to be doing more at PF these days). But the other parts I’m not so sure about for them.

[Takingbaconback]

I don't know why the Kings would want to flip Hield and Barnes for Wiggins and Kleiber. They give up two better players for two worse ones.

I think Buddy for Wiggins is good for the Kings. Wiggins is an ok two way guy who can play SF better than any other guy save Barnes (who seems to be doing more at PF these days). But the other parts I’m not so sure about for them.

Wiggins is horrible, he's just picking up random stats by playing with Curry. He can't create his own shots, he can't make 3s, doesn't rebound, and defense has been talked up just because he's not on the wolves anymore. He floats around, blanks out, has low BBIQ, and isn't assertive. Hield shoots 40% from 3s and 85% from FT, there is real value in a player like that. Dude gets more rebounds than Wiggins, it's sad.

What's the difference between Wiggins and Mo Harkless of the Kings? Only points per game and Harkless would get 18-20 points if he was putting up 15-16 shots a game too. Wiggins played 33.3 minutes last season and averaged 2.4 assists playing with Curry. How does that even happen?

[rpa]

I don't know why the Kings would want to flip Hield and Barnes for Wiggins and Kleiber. They give up two better players for two worse ones.

I think Buddy for Wiggins is good for the Kings. Wiggins is an ok two way guy who can play SF better than any other guy save Barnes (who seems to be doing more at PF these days). But the other parts I’m not so sure about for them.

I'm not buying the "Wiggins is a good player now" after just one season. Hell, even with how good (compared to his Minnesota days at least) he was last year he still sported a negative BPM.

The big problem with Wiggins is that you're getting something between an OK player (him last year on GSW) or a guy who's a clear net negative (poor D, poor shooter) and paying him $30mil a year. For all the hate that Hield gets he's still a 41% career shooter from behind the arc. For as overpaid as he is (I don't think it's much, but whatever) at least he has a clearly defined role that every team values. Can we really say we're confident that Wiggins has that on most teams out there?

[eminence]

Is there a 4th team that could send back useful guys for Wiseman/Bagley?

With it being so early in the season, there are only going to be a limited number of teams ready to throw in the towel and start looking to the future rather than try and compete now.

I have to think about it, but the market for project Bigs could be soft.

I think this would be my idea for a 4th team (basically taken from the Bulls 4 thread and mashed into this). Keep the project big in SAC who should have some minutes for him going forward. Valuing Bagley basically as an expiring.

GS In: Hield/Kleber/WCS/DFS
GS Out: Wiggins/Wiseman/Looney/'22 1st

Upgrade the rotation bigtime.

SAC In: Wiggins/Wiseman/Anderson or Boucher
SAC Out: Hield/Barnes/Bagley

Trade Bagley for Wiseman at the cost of downgrading Barnes. Still get decent win now talent and Wiggins may fit better than Hield.

DAL In: Barnes/Looney
DAL Out: Kleber/WCS/DFS

Get the best player in Barnes

MEM/TOR In: Bagley/GS '22 1st
MEM/TOR Out: Anderson or Boucher

Trade a fringe starter 4 for a late 1st.

[LAL1947]

DAL In: Barnes/Looney
DAL Out: Kleber/WCS/DFS

Get the best player in Barnes

That leaves the Mavs with this... and no incoming picks or assets to improve the team.

Luka, Brunson
THJ, Sterling
Bullock, Green
Barnes, Looney
Porzingis, Boban, Powell

If you're trying to send Luka to the Lakers sooner than even I think it may happen... then I'm all for this trade.

GS In: Hield/Kleber/WCS/DFS
GS Out: Wiggins/Wiseman/Looney/'22 1st

PS: Just because GSW managed to get into clear winning situation when KD signed with them for free (i.e., without them having to trade away assets)... it doesn't mean the rest of the league is lining up to make GSW contenders again. It's a vibe I get from most GSW folks... even a 4th or 5th incoming star must fit absolutely perfectly and be gotten for a bargain, while what they send out can be JAGS or useless to the other team's objectives.

[kalenclayton]

I don't know why the Kings would want to flip Hield and Barnes for Wiggins and Kleiber. They give up two better players for two worse ones.

I think Buddy for Wiggins is good for the Kings. Wiggins is an ok two way guy who can play SF better than any other guy save Barnes (who seems to be doing more at PF these days). But the other parts I’m not so sure about for them.

I’m still not convinced Wiggins plays well outside of GS and am of the belief he would revert back to his old ways in Sac.
Barnes played more 4 last season, but is now playing a bunch of minutes playing both the 3 and 4. He’s killing it. I believe he will fall closer to his career mean soon, but his shot and demeanor looks different compared to years past. His catch and shoot is quicker than ever and he looks so confident. Defensively, I’m not really sure just how much better of a defender Wiggins is. Barnes is absolutely a better offensive contributor and leader. The Kings would not do a Barnes-Wiggins swap unless the season was lost and the Kings were receiving a good asset along with Wiggins.

[Texas Chuck]

DAL In: Barnes/Looney
DAL Out: Kleber/WCS/DFS

Get the best player in Barnes

That leaves the Mavs with this... and no incoming picks or assets to improve the team.

Luka, Brunson
THJ, Sterling
Bullock, Green
Barnes, Looney
Porzingis, Boban, Powell

If you're trying to send Luka to the Lakers sooner than even I think it may happen... then I'm all for this trade.

Curious about your depth chart here. Right now Powell starts at center and KP at PF. Yet suddenly Powell moves behind Boban(uh no) and KP is the center despite the team dealing its two primary PF's and only bringing back one (Looney is only a center).

Its fine to not like his idea. I don't want to do it either. But don't intentionally misrepresent the rotation to make it look worse.

[eminence]

I don't know why the Kings would want to flip Hield and Barnes for Wiggins and Kleiber. They give up two better players for two worse ones.

I think Buddy for Wiggins is good for the Kings. Wiggins is an ok two way guy who can play SF better than any other guy save Barnes (who seems to be doing more at PF these days). But the other parts I’m not so sure about for them.

I’m still not convinced Wiggins plays well outside of GS and am of the belief he would revert back to his old ways in Sac.
Barnes played more 4 last season, but is now playing a bunch of minutes playing both the 3 and 4. He’s killing it. I believe he will fall closer to his career mean soon, but his shot and demeanor looks different compared to years past. His catch and shoot is quicker than ever and he looks so confident. Defensively, I’m not really sure just how much better of a defender Wiggins is. Barnes is absolutely a better offensive contributor and leader. The Kings would not do a Barnes-Wiggins swap unless the season was lost and the Kings were receiving a good asset along with Wiggins.

100% agreed on Barnes > Wiggins. I'd probably have Wiggins/Buddy approximately equal as players (slight edge to Buddy compounded by his better deal).

SAC would certainly be taking a step back to get a shot at future talent in such a deal. Tried to balance them keeping decent guys for now with attaining future guys, it's a tricky one.

[LAL1947]

DAL In: Barnes/Looney
DAL Out: Kleber/WCS/DFS

Get the best player in Barnes

That leaves the Mavs with this... and no incoming picks or assets to improve the team.

Luka, Brunson
THJ, Sterling
Bullock, Green
Barnes, Looney
Porzingis, Boban, Powell

If you're trying to send Luka to the Lakers sooner than even I think it may happen... then I'm all for this trade.

Curious about your depth chart here. Right now Powell starts at center and KP at PF. Yet suddenly Powell moves behind Boban(uh no) and KP is the center despite the team dealing its two primary PF's and only bringing back one (Looney is only a center).

Its fine to not like his idea. I don't want to do it either. But don't intentionally misrepresent the rotation to make it look worse.

Well, I listed the guys who I figure will be the main 5 first, then filled out the rest... and Barnes has been playing more PF of late, as you pointed out too. Anyway, let's move Barnes to SF where he'd be better used.

Luka, Brunson
THJ, Sterling
Barnes, Bullock, Green
Porzingis, Looney
Powell, Boban

That any better for the Mavs?

[eminence]

DAL In: Barnes/Looney
DAL Out: Kleber/WCS/DFS

Get the best player in Barnes

That leaves the Mavs with this... and no incoming picks or assets to improve the team.

Luka, Brunson
THJ, Sterling
Bullock, Green
Barnes, Looney
Porzingis, Boban, Powell

If you're trying to send Luka to the Lakers sooner than even I think it may happen... then I'm all for this trade.

GS In: Hield/Kleber/WCS/DFS
GS Out: Wiggins/Wiseman/Looney/'22 1st

PS: Just because GSW managed to get into clear winning situation when KD signed with them for free (i.e., without them having to trade away assets)... it doesn't mean the rest of the league is lining up to make GSW contenders again. It's a vibe I get from most GSW folks... even a 4th or 5th incoming star must fit absolutely perfectly and be gotten for a bargain, while what they send out can be JAGS or useless to the other team's objectives.

Yes, so many stars coming back to GS in that deal.

[LAL1947]

GS In: Hield/Kleber/WCS/DFS
GS Out: Wiggins/Wiseman/Looney/'22 1st

PS: Just because GSW managed to get into clear winning situation when KD signed with them for free (i.e., without them having to trade away assets)... it doesn't mean the rest of the league is lining up to make GSW contenders again. It's a vibe I get from most GSW folks... even a 4th or 5th incoming star must fit absolutely perfectly and be gotten for a bargain, while what they send out can be JAGS or useless to the other team's objectives.

Yes, so many stars coming back to GS in that deal.

I didn't say there were stars coming back in this particular deal... but suggested it is one that aims to make GSW a proper title contender again by not giving up much and without even a little consideration for Dallas' objectives. Even my KP suggestion was made keeping in mind his potential upside/fit when playing alongside Curry, Klay and Dray (because of their play-making and movement, which he'd benefit from... and Dray's ability to help him on defense)... with only KP's health being a truly valid concern for GSW IMHO.

[eminence]

I could certainly see the deal with Dallas cut out.

GS IN: Hield/Barnes
GS Out: Wiggins/Wiseman/'22 1st

SAC In: Wiggins/Anderson/Wiseman
SAC Out: Hield/Barnes/Bagley

MEM In: Bagley/'22 1st
MEM Out: Anderson