Russell Westbrook is showing you what Kevin Durant had to put up with for 8 years.

Dominator83 · Post #21 » by **Dominator83** » Sat Oct 30, 2021 6:36 am

Weird night to make this thread when he plays well in a win

picc · Post #22 » by **picc** » Sat Oct 30, 2021 6:54 am

Westbrook was the best player on the Thunder on both of their runs to the WCF in '14 and '16, in both box score and plus minus. He's been the best player of a group that was within one game of beating a 73-win team. His huge decline has led to a recency bias that in turn fuels the confirmation bias you and a large number of posters here have applied to him the last few years, and you have now convinced yourself that the current, broken iteration of him is representative of how he's always been.

This compulsion goes hand in hand with the board's longstanding obsession with true shooting percentage, and the laziness that leads to viewing it as a catchall synopsis of a players value. Westbrook currently can be argued is a net negative player, and has been teetering on the edge of it for quite some time, due to a combination of injuries, decline in athleticism, and inexplicable shooting declines at all three levels, but suggesting that this is how he's always been, or that he wasn't an all-time great player during his admittedly short prime/peak, is either disingenuous or plainly a result of blind bias.

Carry on.

dcstanley · Post #23 » by **dcstanley** » Sat Oct 30, 2021 7:04 am

Spoiler:

GSP wrote:I used to be a huge Russ fan but his career after Kd left particular his playoff career has exposed him in a bad light

Lol what? Westbrook isn't remotely close to the player he was from 2013-2017. He legitimately outperformed KD in a number of playoff series during their years together. His post-prime has not been pretty but that doesn't mean he wasn't one of the most impactful players in the league at one point.

Post #24 » by **zimpy27** » Sat Oct 30, 2021 7:06 am

Watch on YouTube

Letsgokings · Post #25 » by **Letsgokings** » Sat Oct 30, 2021 7:40 am

Glad he isn't on my team. Even if Westbrook scored 100 points in a single game he'd still be garbage. Least impressive "superstar" to ever play the game.

Dupp · Post #26 » by **Dupp** » Sat Oct 30, 2021 7:46 am

Westbrook is well into his decline right now. Won an mvp post KD.

Marrrcuss · Post #27 » by **Marrrcuss** » Sat Oct 30, 2021 7:49 am

KnicksGadfly wrote:I would have more sympathy had he not left Steph to team up with Kyrie

He did choose playing with Kyrie over Steph, huh :lol:

Dupp · Post #28 » by **Dupp** » Sat Oct 30, 2021 7:50 am

Westbrook isn’t the perfect with with anyone but the biggest hurdle that thunder faced was 3 straight seasons was injuries in the playoffs ( KD, Brick+ Ibaka).

They also traded harden for trash.

ecogen · Post #29 » by **ecogen** » Sat Oct 30, 2021 8:02 am

Dupp wrote:Westbrook is well into his decline right now. Won an mvp post KD.

Most bull MVP win ever.

Dupp · Post #30 » by **Dupp** » Sat Oct 30, 2021 8:06 am

ecogen wrote:
Dupp wrote:Westbrook is well into his decline right now. Won an mvp post KD.

Most bull MVP win ever.

Definitely not. He had the best year, the best player in the regular season that year.

I thought harden should have gotten the award but westbrick was clearly an mvp level player that season and should have been second.

AI’s was far worse.

JN61 · Post #31 » by **JN61** » Sat Oct 30, 2021 8:07 am

OPs take is as lazy (and made up) as is Skip Bayles' arguments on the matter. Durant is on the record very soon after the signing with Warriors (and years later) that Westbrook was never the issue. Issue was OKC signing just 1 way players meaning on offense they played 3 vs 5 most of the time with guys like Thabo, Perk, Andre, etc contributing next to nothing.

Durant missed significant time due to injuries on years 15, 17, 20, 21. Westbrook 14 and 20. Some of these advanced impact metrics doesn't go down to Westbrook's rookie year so can't compare whole careers.

ORPM during those years:
Durant vs Westbrook
year: number (ranking in the league)
09: 1.36 (58) vs 0.50 (99)
10: 4.17 (6) vs 1.98 (39)
11: 3.80 (9) vs 3.10 (13)
12: 4.15 (7) vs 3.90 (11)
13: 4.28 (8) vs 4.52 (6)
14: 6.17 (2) vs 5.54 (5)
15: 5.19 (6) vs 8.80 (2)
16: 6.14 (3) vs 7.29 (2)

17: 5.22 (7) vs 7.89 (2)
18: 4.66 (6) vs 5.88 (3)
19: 4.14 (12) vs 5.68 (5)
20: DNP vs 4.33 (12)
21: 4.07 (3) vs 1.99 (33)

O-RAPTOR:
Durant vs Westbrook:
14: +7.1 (3) vs +4.3 (8)
15: DNP vs + 6.1 (4)
16: +5.5 (6) vs +6.6 (3)

17: +5.9 (11) vs +7.8 (3)
18: +5.9 (7) vs 4.3 (14)
19: +5.2 (6) vs +2.5
20: DNP vs -0.4
21: +4.6 (12) vs +0.3

O-LEBRON:
Durant vs Westbrook:
14: 6.33 (1) vs 3.42 (10)
15: 3.91 (6) vs 5.92 (1)
16: 5.01 (4) 5.89 (2)

17: 4.44 (9) vs 5.63 (4)
18: 4.13 (6) vs 3.59 (8)
19: 4.44 (4) vs 2.75 (19)
20: DNP vs 1.02
21: 3.46 (15) vs 1.59 (45)

There is an argument Westbrook was 2nd most impactful regular season player to his team after Curry for around 5 year period. Few which he shared with Durant and few which he was a solo act. From around 14 to 18. So please stop making nonsense threads and accept players regress eventually. Not everyone stay on the prime of their game for 18 years. Westbrook is one of the most impactful playmakers in the NBA history and his peak was very great. He is just not that player anymore.

ecogen · Post #32 » by **ecogen** » Sat Oct 30, 2021 8:11 am

Dupp wrote:
ecogen wrote:
Dupp wrote:Westbrook is well into his decline right now. Won an mvp post KD.

Most bull MVP win ever.

Definitely not. He had the best year, the best player in the regular season that year.

I thought harden should have gotten the award but westbrick was clearly an mvp level player that season and should have been second.

AI’s was far worse.

If he had averaged 9 rebounds or 9 assists Westbrook wouldn't have even gotten close to being voted MVP. It was a novelty MVP.

Can't comment on AI's MVP since I was too young and wasn't an NBA viewer at the time.

JN61 · Post #33 » by **JN61** » Sat Oct 30, 2021 8:12 am

Letsgokings wrote:Glad he isn't on my team. Even if Westbrook scored 100 points in a single game he'd still be garbage. Least impressive "superstar" to ever play the game.

Yeah well Kings never had any superstars when they were called the kings so hard to judge I guess.

JN61 · Post #34 » by **JN61** » Sat Oct 30, 2021 8:14 am

ecogen wrote:
Dupp wrote:
ecogen wrote:
Most bull MVP win ever.

Definitely not. He had the best year, the best player in the regular season that year.

I thought harden should have gotten the award but westbrick was clearly an mvp level player that season and should have been second.

AI’s was far worse.

If he had averaged 9 rebounds or 9 assists Westbrook wouldn't have even gotten close to being voted MVP. It was a novelty MVP.

Can't comment on AI's MVP since I was too young and wasn't an NBA viewer at the time.

Uhm... Look at impact metrics posted... He also was one of leaders on WS that year and lead the league on OBPM, BPM and VORP.... He also led the league on massive way on clutch scoring (almost double to Harden and 10% better FG% and 5% better 3pt shot) and made SEVERAL game winning and buzzer beater shots that year.

Edit. Did you also conveniently forget that MVP was decided on the last weeks of the regular season? Time when Harden was awful and Westbrook was feasting:

last 10 games players played significant minutes (Westbrook showed up to the last reg season game just for the spectacle of Big O and sat most of it so not counting that):

Harden 5-5 record: 27.1 ppg, 8.7 TRB, 10.9 AST, 1.1 STL. 39.7% FG, 31.2% 3p%, 83% FT%. 35.4 MPG
Westbrook: 6-4 record: 35.3 ppg, 12.6 TRB, 11.1 AST, 1.4 STL. 47.8% FG, 38.5 3p%, 87 FT%. 35.6 MPG.

I'm sorry but how you finish up the season matters. Westbrook was just superior. He was on insane level last month or so of the season while Harden was regressing significantly. Westbrook led on every single statistical category while dragging his team to equal or better wins in same timespan. OKC finished the last 25 games with the record of 16 - 9 and Rockets 15-10.

kazyv · Post #35 » by **kazyv** » Sat Oct 30, 2021 8:28 am

Tottery wrote:
theforumblue wrote:Yeah MJ always struck me as a guy who'd take backseat to Westbrook.

Sarcasm, right? I'm pretty sure MJ would be chewing WB out and have him kicked from the team.

Grumpy Heat Fan wrote:
theforumblue wrote:Yeah MJ always struck me as a guy who'd take backseat to Westbrook.

MJ would have gotten Westbrook traded.

When Kevin Durant was in OKC in his younger days, he wasn't assertive enough to take over the team. OKC Front office should have done it for him. I posted about this for years. This is not a new take for me.

Westbrook was inserting himself as a high usage player and doing things like having the ball in his hands in crucial playoff moments, when he should have been deferring to KD..... etc....

that's some high grade projection right there. newsflash, mj isn't a cupcake star like lebron or kd. he isn't in the habit of trading his teammates or being passive aggressive on twitter. if there were problems with the playstyle between the two of them, mj would have attacked the challenges, not run from them. he and russ would have worked it out

ecogen · Post #36 » by **ecogen** » Sat Oct 30, 2021 8:28 am

JN61 wrote:
ecogen wrote:
Dupp wrote:

Definitely not. He had the best year, the best player in the regular season that year.

I thought harden should have gotten the award but westbrick was clearly an mvp level player that season and should have been second.

AI’s was far worse.

If he had averaged 9 rebounds or 9 assists Westbrook wouldn't have even gotten close to being voted MVP. It was a novelty MVP.

Can't comment on AI's MVP since I was too young and wasn't an NBA viewer at the time.

Uhm... Look at impact metrics posted... He also was one of leaders on WS that year and lead the league on OBPM, BPM and VORP.... He also led the league on massive way on clutch scoring (almost double to Harden and 10% better FG% and 5% better 3pt shot) and made SEVERAL game winning and buzzer beater shots that year.

Edit. Did you also conveniently forget that MVP was decided on the last weeks of the regular season? Time when Harden was awful and Westbrook was feasting:

last 10 games players played significant minutes (Westbrook showed up to the last reg season game just for the spectacle of Big O and sat most of it so not counting that):

Harden 5-5 record: 27.1 ppg, 8.7 TRB, 10.9 AST. 39.7% FG, 31.2% 3p%, 83% FT%. 35.4 MPG
Westbrook: 6-4 record: 35.3 ppg, 12.6 TRB, 11.1 AST, 47.8% FG, 38.5 3p%, 87 FT%. 35.6 MPG.

I'm sorry but how you finish up the season matters. Westbrook was just superior. He was on insane level last month or so of the season while Harden was regressing significantly.

Dude OKC was the 6th seed, Westbrook doesn't come close to winning MVP if he doesn't average a TD.

picc · Post #37 » by **picc** » Sat Oct 30, 2021 8:43 am

The irony of these Westbrook detractors loving to proclaim he never played winning basketball, is that Russ has been further in the playoffs as a teams best player than many of the other players they say do.

Like, where do you get the audacity to say that? As if he's been the only prestigious player with flaws that have hurt the team from time to time. A lot of stones get thrown in glass houses when it comes to Westbrook.

Dupp · Post #38 » by **Dupp** » Sat Oct 30, 2021 8:48 am

ecogen wrote:
Dupp wrote:
ecogen wrote:
Most bull MVP win ever.

Definitely not. He had the best year, the best player in the regular season that year.

I thought harden should have gotten the award but westbrick was clearly an mvp level player that season and should have been second.

AI’s was far worse.

If he had averaged 9 rebounds or 9 assists Westbrook wouldn't have even gotten close to being voted MVP. It was a novelty MVP.

Can't comment on AI's MVP since I was too young and wasn't an NBA viewer at the time.

I agree that he wouldn’t have gotten it without the triple double but the triple double stuff goes both ways. People think that coz he’s don’t the triple double stuff since then without being great means he wasn’t great then.

He was absolutely elite that year.

Pennebaker · Post #39 » by **Pennebaker** » Sat Oct 30, 2021 8:54 am

Durant has two acrimonious splits from a team (OKC and GSW) versus Westbrook's one (OKC), so perhaps KD is the toxic one because Russ hasn't had a problem with anyone else and Durant is the common denominator.

Westbrook is getting along great with his new teammates and as far as we know he has no burner accounts where he's pretending to be his own fan.

JN61 · Post #40 » by **JN61** » Sat Oct 30, 2021 9:14 am

picc wrote:The irony of these Westbrook detractors loving to proclaim he never played winning basketball, is that Russ has been further in the playoffs as a teams best player than many of the other players they say do.

Like, where do you get the audacity to say that? As if he's been the only prestigious player with flaws that have hurt the team from time to time. A lot of stones get thrown in glass houses when it comes to Westbrook.

And in 2016 Westbrook was by all accounts OKCs best and the most impactful player. Team that went to game 7 with the Warriors with Durant playing worse down the stretch than Westbrook by all accounts. If people want to say he is not that guy anymore be my guest but almost no player who is 33 year old is as good as when they were 26-28. But to say he was terrible that 4-5 year span is ridiculous.