Russell Westbrook is showing you what Kevin Durant had to put up with for 8 years.

[BallerTalk]

Westbrook is well into his decline right now. Won an mvp post KD.

Most bull MVP win ever.

Definitely not. He had the best year, the best player in the regular season that year.

I thought harden should have gotten the award but westbrick was clearly an mvp level player that season and should have been second.

AI’s was far worse.

They did an informal survey of voters a couple of seasons ago.
IIRC Werstbrook 1st, Rose 2nd.

[meekrab]

Comparing Westbrook from 5+ years ago to present day Westbrook is so incredibly disingenuous.

True, you'd think present day Westbrook would've learned something from his years of sucking despite averaging a triple double.

[ecogen]

Definitely not. He had the best year, the best player in the regular season that year.

I thought harden should have gotten the award but westbrick was clearly an mvp level player that season and should have been second.

AI’s was far worse.

If he had averaged 9 rebounds or 9 assists Westbrook wouldn't have even gotten close to being voted MVP. It was a novelty MVP.

Can't comment on AI's MVP since I was too young and wasn't an NBA viewer at the time.

I agree that he wouldn’t have gotten it without the triple double but the triple double stuff goes both ways. People think that coz he’s don’t the triple double stuff since then without being great means he wasn’t great then.

He was absolutely elite that year.

I'm not contesting him being elite that year, he absolutely was. My point is that if the difference between having 10Rebs/game and 9.5Rebs/game is enough to take you from being first in MVP voting to (probably) not even being in the top 3, your MVP case isn't that strong.

[JN61]

If he had averaged 9 rebounds or 9 assists Westbrook wouldn't have even gotten close to being voted MVP. It was a novelty MVP.

Can't comment on AI's MVP since I was too young and wasn't an NBA viewer at the time.

Uhm... Look at impact metrics posted... He also was one of leaders on WS that year and lead the league on OBPM, BPM and VORP.... He also led the league on massive way on clutch scoring (almost double to Harden and 10% better FG% and 5% better 3pt shot) and made SEVERAL game winning and buzzer beater shots that year.

Edit. Did you also conveniently forget that MVP was decided on the last weeks of the regular season? Time when Harden was awful and Westbrook was feasting:

last 10 games players played significant minutes (Westbrook showed up to the last reg season game just for the spectacle of Big O and sat most of it so not counting that):

Harden 5-5 record: 27.1 ppg, 8.7 TRB, 10.9 AST. 39.7% FG, 31.2% 3p%, 83% FT%. 35.4 MPG
Westbrook: 6-4 record: 35.3 ppg, 12.6 TRB, 11.1 AST, 47.8% FG, 38.5 3p%, 87 FT%. 35.6 MPG.

I'm sorry but how you finish up the season matters. Westbrook was just superior. He was on insane level last month or so of the season while Harden was regressing significantly.

Dude OKC was the 6th seed, Westbrook doesn't come close to winning MVP if he doesn't average a TD.

Harden isn't top 3 MVP candidate that year if he doesn't average double digit assists. What is your point? Westbrook was the best player that year during the regular season with some historical feats and absurd one liner doesn't change it.

Like you put it. Make Westbrook average 1.7 rebounds less and 1.4 assists less and he doesn't win it: Make Harden average 29/6.4/9.8 and he doesn't win either. To make your team be 3.5 points worse on average scoring makes your team significantly worse. Rockets aren't probably even 6th seed if Harden loses that amount of playmaking you project Westbrook to lose.

[antonac]

Uhm... Look at impact metrics posted... He also was one of leaders on WS that year and lead the league on OBPM, BPM and VORP.... He also led the league on massive way on clutch scoring (almost double to Harden and 10% better FG% and 5% better 3pt shot) and made SEVERAL game winning and buzzer beater shots that year.

Edit. Did you also conveniently forget that MVP was decided on the last weeks of the regular season? Time when Harden was awful and Westbrook was feasting:

last 10 games players played significant minutes (Westbrook showed up to the last reg season game just for the spectacle of Big O and sat most of it so not counting that):

Harden 5-5 record: 27.1 ppg, 8.7 TRB, 10.9 AST. 39.7% FG, 31.2% 3p%, 83% FT%. 35.4 MPG
Westbrook: 6-4 record: 35.3 ppg, 12.6 TRB, 11.1 AST, 47.8% FG, 38.5 3p%, 87 FT%. 35.6 MPG.

I'm sorry but how you finish up the season matters. Westbrook was just superior. He was on insane level last month or so of the season while Harden was regressing significantly.

Dude OKC was the 6th seed, Westbrook doesn't come close to winning MVP if he doesn't average a TD.

Harden isn't top 3 MVP candidate that year if he doesn't average double digit assists. What is your point? Westbrook was the best player that year during the regular season with some historical feats and absurd one liner doesn't change it.

Like you put it. Make Westbrook average 1.7 rebounds less and 1.4 assists less and he doesn't win it: Make Harden average 29/6.4/9.8 and he doesn't win either.

He really wasn't. The best players in the league were Durant and Curry, and they played like it too, obliterating teams, best record in the league and being so good they were anointed champions at the tip, which they then more than lived up to going 16-1 in the play-offs making every other team look like g-leaguers.

But it wasn't fair they played together, everyone was upset so Durant's jilted ex got to be prom queen.

[ecogen]

Uhm... Look at impact metrics posted... He also was one of leaders on WS that year and lead the league on OBPM, BPM and VORP.... He also led the league on massive way on clutch scoring (almost double to Harden and 10% better FG% and 5% better 3pt shot) and made SEVERAL game winning and buzzer beater shots that year.

Edit. Did you also conveniently forget that MVP was decided on the last weeks of the regular season? Time when Harden was awful and Westbrook was feasting:

last 10 games players played significant minutes (Westbrook showed up to the last reg season game just for the spectacle of Big O and sat most of it so not counting that):

Harden 5-5 record: 27.1 ppg, 8.7 TRB, 10.9 AST. 39.7% FG, 31.2% 3p%, 83% FT%. 35.4 MPG
Westbrook: 6-4 record: 35.3 ppg, 12.6 TRB, 11.1 AST, 47.8% FG, 38.5 3p%, 87 FT%. 35.6 MPG.

I'm sorry but how you finish up the season matters. Westbrook was just superior. He was on insane level last month or so of the season while Harden was regressing significantly.

Dude OKC was the 6th seed, Westbrook doesn't come close to winning MVP if he doesn't average a TD.

Harden isn't top 3 MVP candidate that year if he doesn't average double digit assists. What is your point? Westbrook was the best player that year during the regular season with some historical feats and absurd one liner doesn't change it.

Like you put it. Make Westbrook average 1.7 rebounds less and 1.4 assists less and he doesn't win it: Make Harden average 29/6.4/9.8 and he doesn't win either. To make your team be 3.5 points worse on average scoring makes your team significantly worse. Rockets aren't probably even 6th seed if Harden loses that amount of playmaking you project Westbrook to lose.

Just the rebounds would be enough for WB to not be MVP, and just to pre-empt you let's make this clear: WB averaging 1.7 less rebs doesn't mean OKC averages 1.7 less rebs.

WB only got MVP that year because of the triple double gimmick, give it a rest.

[Dupp]

If he had averaged 9 rebounds or 9 assists Westbrook wouldn't have even gotten close to being voted MVP. It was a novelty MVP.

Can't comment on AI's MVP since I was too young and wasn't an NBA viewer at the time.

I agree that he wouldn’t have gotten it without the triple double but the triple double stuff goes both ways. People think that coz he’s don’t the triple double stuff since then without being great means he wasn’t great then.

He was absolutely elite that year.

I'm not contesting him being elite that year, he absolutely was. My point is that if the difference between having 10Rebs/game and 9.5Rebs/game is enough to take you from being first in MVP voting to (probably) not even being in the top 3, your MVP case isn't that strong.

Take out team record and the clean triple double stats and his case was better than anyone’s.

My issue is the team record thing ignores previous precedent. If not for that he would have been a deserving player. Which in the end isn’t really that important as my point was this guy for the last few years isn’t the guy from then or earlier.

[ecogen]

I agree that he wouldn’t have gotten it without the triple double but the triple double stuff goes both ways. People think that coz he’s don’t the triple double stuff since then without being great means he wasn’t great then.

He was absolutely elite that year.

I'm not contesting him being elite that year, he absolutely was. My point is that if the difference between having 10Rebs/game and 9.5Rebs/game is enough to take you from being first in MVP voting to (probably) not even being in the top 3, your MVP case isn't that strong.

Take out team record and the clean triple double stats and his case was better than anyone’s.

My issue is the team record thing ignores previous precedent. If not for that he would have been a deserving player. Which in the end isn’t really that important as my point was this guy for the last few years isn’t the guy from then or earlier.

I mean sure, if you take out team record he definitely had a really good argument, but team record has always been a huge part of MVP voting.

[Letsgokings]

Why debate Harden vs Westbrook when in reality they are both incredibly overrated.

[LesGrossman]

Westbrick was a gimmick MVP because media wouldnt stop talking about his TD season. At the same time it was totally obvious that the TD‘s were manufactured by his bigs stepping away and giving up uncontested defensive rebounds. Worst MVP ever, dunno how one can even debate that.

Same as the nonsense argument that KD was leading the league when he was together with Russ. I wonder if those posters even saw them play together. In seemingly every clutch situation Russ insisted to be „the guy“ and wouldnt give up the ball. He was holding KD back, and keeping him from showing his full potential. The success they had was achieved despite, not because westbrick playing there. Bringing in a normal pass first guy to feed KD the ball in good situations instead of a self-consumed me-first chucker without a reliable shot would have been much much better.

[timO]

Glad he isn't on my team. Even if Westbrook scored 100 points in a single game he'd still be garbage. Least impressive "superstar" to ever play the game.

thats for kongs are

15 years playoff drought and counting

enjoy the lottery

[hardenASG13]

For starters this westbrook isnt the guy KD played with, as has been stated.

They actually both were held back by OKC and presti though. They had Kevin Duramt, the best scorer in the league, and the most electric athlete in the league in westbrook. Both could collapse defenses all night long. How did they complement these guys, especially westbrook whose one weakness was shooting? They decided:

1) lets make sure to start a center who cant catch lob passes or dunk off a dump off pass (perkins), even though a guy like that would really thrive with Russ (like daniel gafford)and then replace him with another non shooting big in Adams, who will clog the paint but boost our Oreb%!. 2) Our point guard isnt a great shooter, but is the most dynamic playmaker in the league. We should start one way defenders next to him, like Thabo and then worse Andre Roberson, who cant shoot uncontested standstill 3s, is scared of the foul line, cant dribble in the halfcourt, and cant attempt a shot off the dribble. He will be a great compliment, and think of the d rating! Forget the success with Harden and Kevin Martin, this league is about defense!

Those two stars never had shooting around them or a center who provided any spacing or rim protection. Just shocking. They both dealt with it and rightfully left OKC, a wasted dynasty chasing regular season analytic greatness. Russ/KD surrounded by shooters and an athletic big wouldve been a dynasty, their failures werent the fault of their stars.

[Bergmaniac]

I didn't know Westbrook was days from his 33rd birthday when he played with KD. You learn something new every day.

[Ontario]

For years, when KD was young, I said Kevin Durant is the only player I see that could legitimately challenge Michael Jordan's career. He could do it all. Almost a 7 footer, who can handle the ball like a guard, elite shooting from anywhere on the court, could drive to the basket at will, he could do it all. But year after year, I kept repeating that Westbrook is handcuffing Durant's greatness. I kept saying Westbrook is a terrible team player and needed to be traded to allow Kevin Durant to shine and cement OKC as "his team" and let him take off.

Instead, Sam Presti was stubborn, Westbrook was selfish, and Kevin Durant, back then, was way too nice and passive to admit it. The Thunder staff had one of the GOAT's in Kevin Durant imo, and they ruined the first half of his career by allowing Westbrook to stay for so long. Durant could have had a magical career, like Jordan did. KD has been the best player in the league for a long time now, but he was held back by Westbrook, and then took a lot of hate when he went to GSW. Even though Durant played well in GSW and showed up his opponents, nailed dagger 3's in the Finals with Lebron guarding him, people don't give him enough credit for his talent.

When I think of what could have been, with KD.... his career should have been much different, and for that, I lay the blame on the OKC front office, and secondly, on Russel Westbrook.

Now that you see who Westbrook is, since leaving OKC, and how bad the Lakers are imploding, everyone should consider what Kevin Durant had to put up with for eight years, and be given a new perspective on his career.

Westbook was then and continues to be until this day the best Pippen, Kevin could have ever possibly asked for.

MJ didn't have a "Magical" career until Pippen arrived. Michael also in the second half of his career now with Pippen with Horace Gant later on with Rodman and Kukoc never lacked for competiitive fire, it burned in him continuously, it still does.

Westbrook would have fought beside Kevin and brought the fire for Kev's entire career, what made KD not "Magical" was the fact that he himself was unwilling to put in that level of commitment to going out and working for it.

[Impuniti]

You're comparing a player that relied almost entirely on his athleticism to be dominant, now 32 and significantly worse, and making him out to be the same player 6-7 years ago.

Did you even watch OKC then?

[Ontario]

Yeah MJ always struck me as a guy who'd take backseat to Westbrook.

Did he strike you as the kind of guy to move to Detroit and have the Bad Boy Pistons win a couple fo titles for him?

No one in OKC wanted Kev to be in the backseat, Russ made that 100% clear to KD accoding to Nick Collison, Russ was willing to do whatever KD needed him to do.

[Ontario]

Odd timing he played well last night.

Lol that the RealGM general board.

Lakers lose = Russ sucks
Lakers win = Russ sucks
Russ lays an egg = Russ sucks
Russ has a great night = Russ sucks
Wizards miss the playoffs = Russ sucks
Wizards make the playoffs = Russ sucks
Russ is on the top 75 list = Russ sucks
Russ wins an MVP = Russ sucks
Russ becomes 2nd player all-time to average a TD = Russ sucks
Russ carries a team that just got abandoned by an MVP to the playoffs = Russ sucks

It's almost like the audience needs Russ to suck, too bad he does not give a F what the audience wants, (which if we are being honest is really the whole crux of the problem, the audience cannot abide a guy not thinking they're special).

[lamscott]

Westbrook today with the Laker is not selfish. His issues are that he still thinks and plays like if he was younger Westbrook when he simply is not.

His turnovers are simply atrocious. That is the biggest thing for this Lakers team. He needs to eat some humble pie and understand that he just needs to play the PG role. His decision making is horrible a lot of times as he plays without thinking a couple of steps ahead like CP3.

[Ontario]

Yeah MJ always struck me as a guy who'd take backseat to Westbrook.

Sarcasm, right? I'm pretty sure MJ would be chewing WB out and have him kicked from the team.

Yeah MJ always struck me as a guy who'd take backseat to Westbrook.

MJ would have gotten Westbrook traded.


When Kevin Durant was in OKC in his younger days, he wasn't assertive enough to take over the team. OKC Front office should have done it for him. I posted about this for years. This is not a new take for me.

Westbrook was inserting himself as a high usage player and doing things like having the ball in his hands in crucial playoff moments, when he should have been deferring to KD..... etc....

that's some high grade projection right there. newsflash, mj isn't a cupcake star like lebron or kd. he isn't in the habit of trading his teammates or being passive aggressive on twitter. if there were problems with the playstyle between the two of them, mj would have attacked the challenges, not run from them. he and russ would have worked it out

MJ would have loved Russ, Jordan has in the past named Russ as the current active player who plays the game the most like he himself did.

[Black Jack]

My exact sentiment OP - see my sig. Under my former username I used to argue with OKC fans about this very topic. They were totally in love Westbrook, the entire fanbase hate to see it.

Trading Westbrook and keeping Durant + Harden would have created one of the GOAT runs.