The Tomjas Thread

[Stanford]

The two stars we could somewhat realisticly trade for were Lillard and Beal.

One is saying he wont ever leave Portland and Beal is starting the season as the 1st seed in the East.

Yeah, it sucks to be us.

meh on both

Yeah okay, lets trade Ben for Buddy Hield and Marvin Bagley.

oh yeah ive famously been advocating for that trade this whole time

[sixers hoops]

meh on both

Yeah okay, lets trade Ben for Buddy Hield and Marvin Bagley.

oh yeah ive famously been advocating for that trade this whole time

Premier debate technique. If you don’t agree with his post, then you are agreeing with a random point counter to his post lol

[ProcessDoctor]

Small sample size, but so far without Ben we are #1 in ORTG and #17 in DRTG.

[Tomjas]

Small sample size, but so far without Ben we are #1 in ORTG and #17 in DRTG.

Fk knows how we’re #1 offensively

We look awful

Fortunately, most of our games have been against duds

[DCasey91]

Small sample size, but so far without Ben we are #1 in ORTG and #17 in DRTG.

I can see both being reasonable. We were pretty high in the O count last year even with Ben being in pretty poor form for the majority of the year.

It’s the defense that’s a worry imo in the playoffs.

Very early days but even outside of ratings it’s always been the makeup/flaws on the team that’s been our undoing.

Personally Embiid is kind of overrated offensively/defensively when trying to play full scope. Either go Shaq or full Ewing but he has to pick one his tank is simply not up to it for a full nba season.

[Tomjas]

Small sample size, but so far without Ben we are #1 in ORTG and #17 in DRTG.

I can see both being reasonable. We were pretty high in the O count last year even with Ben being in pretty poor form for the majority of the year.

It’s the defense that’s a worry imo in the playoffs.

Very early days but even outside of ratings it’s always been the makeup/flaws on the team that’s been our undoing.

Personally Embiid is kind of overrated offensively/defensively when trying to play full scope. Either go Shaq or full Ewing but he has to pick one his tank is simply not up to it for a full nba season.

Yep

Embiid makes some elite defensive plays but he’s no Gobert

Simmons is the difference maker on that end

Morey wants Dame because he might allow us to score more points than we leak without Simmons

[Tomjas]

What does this say about the rest?

Read on Twitter

[stormi]

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Top 10 this year in rebounds, steals and assists for guards. Burst off the dribble is really impressive and he can take and make shots late. Cooked Yannis a few times in the clutch off the dribble.

But the red flags explode in my mind like fireworks whenever an offensive player can't shoot 3's (31.8% this year on ~3 attempts), and also doesn't get to the line (only 2 free throw attempts per game). He's been below a 15% free throw attempt rate over the past two seasons - which for perspective means he gets to the line less frequently than Seth Curry...

I'd maybe do the Walker + Dejounte for Ben deal if an unprotected 2022 first was thrown in because that seems like the real asset of the package and the Spurs are not good this year.

[the_process]

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Top 10 this year in rebounds, steals and assists for guards. Burst off the dribble is really impressive and he can take and make shots late. Cooked Yannis a few times in the clutch off the dribble.

But the red flags explode in my mind like fireworks whenever an offensive player can't shoot 3's (31.8% this year on ~3 attempts), and also doesn't get to the line (only 2 free throw attempts per game). He's been below a 15% free throw attempt rate over the past two seasons - which for perspective means he gets to the line less frequently than Seth Curry...

I'd maybe do the Walker + Dejounte for Ben deal if an unprotected 2022 first was thrown in because that seems like the real asset of the package and the Spurs are not good this year.

That's not enough. But I agree the Spurs should be a daily phone call.

Especially since Morey's "plan" of holding out for Lillard, or Beal, or whomever... is going so swimmingly.

[stormi]

That's not enough. But I agree the Spurs should be a daily phone call.

Oxymoron. Nothing they offer will ever feel like enough.

Dejounte - meh
Walker - interesting athletic bomber / microwave scorer
Vassell - meh
Primo - meh
Keldon - meh
2022 first - intriguing high pick potential

[76ciology]

Im shorting the Dejounte Murray stock.

He already have some big games and yet he still have below standard scoring efficiency number. He should be making 23-24pts with his 17.8FGA. His FTs and 3pt dont show any improvement. The big difference is because of the +- 20-% FGAs

Spurs is just inflating his numbers. Dont get fooled

[76ciology]

2020-2021 34% 3pt frequency
2021-2022 40% 3pt frequency

So we take and make more threes when we play without our generational 3pt assist leader?

[DCasey91]

2020-2021 34% 3pt frequency
2021-2022 40% 3pt frequency

So we take and make more threes when we play without our generational 3pt assist leader?

It’s a stop gap game plan to jack threes, we’ll lose games because our shooters besides Curry/Niang are random lol

But we can’t bring that gameplan to the playoffs without a great pg to break it down and set the players in place (not that Ben is) or a good enough scorer for the offset when we can’t score which happens.

It’s the defense that’s the worry imo

This is kind of like a Hakeem setup albeit still flawed.

[76ciology]

2020-2021 34% 3pt frequency
2021-2022 40% 3pt frequency

So we take and make more threes when we play without our generational 3pt assist leader?

It’s a stop gap game plan to jack threes, we’ll lose games because our shooters besides Curry/Niang are random lol

But we can’t bring that gameplan to the playoffs without a great pg to break it down and set the players in place (not that Ben is) or a good enough scorer for the offset when we can’t score which happens.

It’s the defense that’s the worry imo

This is kind of like a Hakeem setup albeit still flawed.

Yeah i know what u mean and i dont deny that.

But I do think our offense is better or atleast just as good as when we had Ben.

While you have better chance in breaking down defense and generating offense with more possessions of Maxey, Korkmaz, Seth and Tobi running the offense than letting Ben hogging all the possessions at PG.

[the_process]

That's not enough. But I agree the Spurs should be a daily phone call.

Oxymoron. Nothing they offer will ever feel like enough.

Dejounte - meh
Walker - interesting athletic bomber / microwave scorer
Vassell - meh
Primo - meh
Keldon - meh
2022 first - intriguing high pick potential

I would do Ben for Murray, Vassell, Aminu, and two unprotected 1sts (thinking 2023 and 2025 to keep the Spurs onboard with it). I feel that's fair value. It may seem underwhelming, but it has immediate help and future upside, as well as potential trade chips.

[the_process]

Im shorting the Dejounte Murray stock.

He already have some big games and yet he still have below standard scoring efficiency number. He should be making 23-24pts with his 17.8FGA. His FTs and 3pt dont show any improvement. The big difference is because of the +- 20-% FGAs

Spurs is just inflating his numbers. Dont get fooled

Sure.

But the Sixers need a lead ball handler. Murray can do that. Even better, you can start Curry next to him and not get killed defensively.

Also, the idea of getting a star directly in exchange for Ben is pretty much dead. Further, the idea you're going to hold on to Ben for four years and get no production is insane. Take the picks and look to bundle them for a star.

[kuclas]

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Top 10 this year in rebounds, steals and assists for guards. Burst off the dribble is really impressive and he can take and make shots late. Cooked Yannis a few times in the clutch off the dribble.

But the red flags explode in my mind like fireworks whenever an offensive player can't shoot 3's (31.8% this year on ~3 attempts), and also doesn't get to the line (only 2 free throw attempts per game). He's been below a 15% free throw attempt rate over the past two seasons - which for perspective means he gets to the line less frequently than Seth Curry...

I'd maybe do the Walker + Dejounte for Ben deal if an unprotected 2022 first was thrown in because that seems like the real asset of the package and the Spurs are not good this year.

Teams (trading their pick) are extremely hesitant to put unprotected picks when the pick is known to be bad (aka 2022) if they know their team will suck. (Okc/Houston)

[DCasey91]

2020-2021 34% 3pt frequency
2021-2022 40% 3pt frequency

So we take and make more threes when we play without our generational 3pt assist leader?

It’s a stop gap game plan to jack threes, we’ll lose games because our shooters besides Curry/Niang are random lol

But we can’t bring that gameplan to the playoffs without a great pg to break it down and set the players in place (not that Ben is) or a good enough scorer for the offset when we can’t score which happens.

It’s the defense that’s the worry imo

This is kind of like a Hakeem setup albeit still flawed.

Yeah i know what u mean and i dont deny that.

But I do think our offense is better or atleast just as good as when we had Ben.

While you have better chance in breaking down defense and generating offense with more possessions of Maxey, Korkmaz, Seth and Tobi running the offense than letting Ben hogging all the possessions at PG.

That’s true the Sixers overindulging in trying to make Ben a useful tool in halfcourt settings is null invoid with Embiid as the big man.

I do like the blueprint though you’d need the upgrade in talent.

You see anyone that’s under the radar atm? Everyone is scouted pretty well in the league.

Outside the Ben stuff I do like the value game
always. Maybe it’s also that I do like trades when you can see a player on our list going one way, you might as well gets something for it in the process.

[DCasey91]

Also no to Murray. 17.8 FGA, 17.8 points

I get him, he would bring really good defense to offset the team defensive struggles but it’s a catch 22.

I have Holiday as a reference point but his TS% has improved. With Murray I just don’t see it.

Harris + Murray + Maxey + Embiid is not a good combo of effectiveness/efficiency on volume.

We really have one player that we know can be trusted on the efficiency stakes to offset some things (Curry) but it isn’t enough.

Also I wonder if Paul George is available in due time.

Point Guard
Paul George
Joel Embiid

I like that.

[Kobblehead]

Murray and Vassell would flatout make this team better on both ends of the court.