2021-2022 Regular Season Game 7: Orlando Magic (1-5) at Pistons (0-4) 10/30/21 at 7:00pm ET

[pepe1991]

After some consideration i dont think giving Suggs the ball to create is the best way to develop him. He has flaws which will not be improved with playing time. Its mostly ball handling and finishing at the rim. His decision making is not that bad. Playing him mostly on ball would propably kill his confidence (which he still has). I would like to see more Wagner and now also Okeke handling the ball.
Our defense was poor, the most glaring thing to me was Bamba and Ross leaving shooters too much space to stand in no mans land. Bamba had positions in transition where he didnt contest Bey (if i remember correctly) to go for the rebound but not boxing out and giving offensive rebound. Watching him is so painfull for me.

Playing Suggs in fashion we do right now also does nothing for him. Guy shoots 30% FG overall.
All shots he took from catch&shoot were 3s. 7/22. Okey, not that terrible. Issue- among 40 threes he took, 23 were wide open, 13 were open. He shoots 23% from them.

It's clear he can't play off ball guard today. Maybe, 40 games into a season we can discuss things and he will become automatic 3 point shooter and he will have some sort of purpose in strongest basketball league in the world as - off ball guard. Today, however, it simply isn't case.

It makes more sense, during season that is complete waste ( i mean, we are 1-6 , it's almost impossible to be worst ) just give him ball and let him sink or swim. Because he is clearly sinking offball.
RJ Hampton is also sinking in his on-ball role so that's already 2 prospects that are drowning in roles they can't fill.


Ross and Gary Harris just make me go- lol. Gary is 27, his body turned 64.
Ross is either elite ( 10% of time) or worthless ( 90% of time ).
I don't know what makes M. Wagner playable and Robin Lopez not in mind of a coach... but hey...

I kind a programmed myself to not give a f*** about this season so ... this isn't season worth losing mind over. We lost to Pistons and made Kelly Olynyk unguardable. There is just so little you can talk about

[89Magicfan]

After some consideration i dont think giving Suggs the ball to create is the best way to develop him. He has flaws which will not be improved with playing time. Its mostly ball handling and finishing at the rim. His decision making is not that bad. Playing him mostly on ball would propably kill his confidence (which he still has). I would like to see more Wagner and now also Okeke handling the ball.
Our defense was poor, the most glaring thing to me was Bamba and Ross leaving shooters too much space to stand in no mans land. Bamba had positions in transition where he didnt contest Bey (if i remember correctly) to go for the rebound but not boxing out and giving offensive rebound. Watching him is so painfull for me.

Playing Suggs in fashion we do right now also does nothing for him. Guy shoots 30% FG overall.
All shots he took from catch&shoot were 3s. 7/22. Okey, not that terrible. Issue- among 40 threes he took, 23 were wide open, 13 were open. He shoots 23% from them.

It's clear he can't play off ball guard today. Maybe, 40 games into a season we can discuss things and he will become automatic 3 point shooter and he will have some sort of purpose in strongest basketball league in the world as - off ball guard. Today, however, it simply isn't case.

It makes more sense, during season that is complete waste ( i mean, we are 1-6 , it's almost impossible to be worst ) just give him ball and let him sink or swim. Because he is clearly sinking offball.
RJ Hampton is also sinking in his on-ball role so that's already 2 prospects that are drowning in roles they can't fill.


Ross and Gary Harris just make me go- lol. Gary is 27, his body turned 64.
Ross is either elite ( 10% of time) or worthless ( 90% of time ).
I don't know what makes M. Wagner playable and Robin Lopez not in mind of a coach... but hey...

I kind a programmed myself to not give a f*** about this season so ... this isn't season worth losing mind over. We lost to Pistons and made Kelly Olynyk unguardable. There is just so little you can talk about

Yup and the longer we continue, the more steps back we take in development IMO.

Suggs is a playmaker. QB with a QB mindset. Run with that.

[zaymon]

After some consideration i dont think giving Suggs the ball to create is the best way to develop him. He has flaws which will not be improved with playing time. Its mostly ball handling and finishing at the rim. His decision making is not that bad. Playing him mostly on ball would propably kill his confidence (which he still has). I would like to see more Wagner and now also Okeke handling the ball.
Our defense was poor, the most glaring thing to me was Bamba and Ross leaving shooters too much space to stand in no mans land. Bamba had positions in transition where he didnt contest Bey (if i remember correctly) to go for the rebound but not boxing out and giving offensive rebound. Watching him is so painfull for me.

Playing Suggs in fashion we do right now also does nothing for him. Guy shoots 30% FG overall.
All shots he took from catch&shoot were 3s. 7/22. Okey, not that terrible. Issue- among 40 threes he took, 23 were wide open, 13 were open. He shoots 23% from them.

It's clear he can't play off ball guard today. Maybe, 40 games into a season we can discuss things and he will become automatic 3 point shooter and he will have some sort of purpose in strongest basketball league in the world as - off ball guard. Today, however, it simply isn't case.

It makes more sense, during season that is complete waste ( i mean, we are 1-6 , it's almost impossible to be worst ) just give him ball and let him sink or swim. Because he is clearly sinking offball.
RJ Hampton is also sinking in his on-ball role so that's already 2 prospects that are drowning in roles they can't fill.


Ross and Gary Harris just make me go- lol. Gary is 27, his body turned 64.
Ross is either elite ( 10% of time) or worthless ( 90% of time ).
I don't know what makes M. Wagner playable and Robin Lopez not in mind of a coach... but hey...

I kind a programmed myself to not give a f*** about this season so ... this isn't season worth losing mind over. We lost to Pistons and made Kelly Olynyk unguardable. There is just so little you can talk about

My thought process is that he wont improve his ball handling by simply playing on ball, that needs serious work during practice. What he is good at right now is attacking moving defense when he doesnt need to change directions with his dribble and making decisions after he gets to the rim (he can even work on his timing and body control during finishes). He will also gain rhytm and confidence with his stationary 3 pointers- he is not bad at it right now.
What playing mostly on ball gives him right now ? He wont magically become better ball handler during games.... Maybe he can do it later in the season but right now it seems outside his skillset. You wont teach baby how to swim by throwing it into the water (my father in law can attest, he is scared of swimming his whole life after such incident)

[JF5]

After some consideration i dont think giving Suggs the ball to create is the best way to develop him. He has flaws which will not be improved with playing time. Its mostly ball handling and finishing at the rim. His decision making is not that bad. Playing him mostly on ball would propably kill his confidence (which he still has). I would like to see more Wagner and now also Okeke handling the ball.
Our defense was poor, the most glaring thing to me was Bamba and Ross leaving shooters too much space to stand in no mans land. Bamba had positions in transition where he didnt contest Bey (if i remember correctly) to go for the rebound but not boxing out and giving offensive rebound. Watching him is so painfull for me.

Never in my life have gotten better at something or gained confidence by not doing that thing.

I think it’s because with Fultz returning down the road and no real SG with decent size, they are forcing him to learn a different role.

Well the team is rebuilding and in an experimental phase. Suggs does need to learn how to play off the ball as well play on it. To me they will most likely put the ball in his hands eventually at the end of the season.

But I can see it in Suggs's body language that his confidence is a bit fragile at the moment. There is possibility that you'd lose him and he wouldn't have the mental fortitude to attempt to be the player that he knows he can be. No need to push it right now.

[89Magicfan]

After some consideration i dont think giving Suggs the ball to create is the best way to develop him. He has flaws which will not be improved with playing time. Its mostly ball handling and finishing at the rim. His decision making is not that bad. Playing him mostly on ball would propably kill his confidence (which he still has). I would like to see more Wagner and now also Okeke handling the ball.
Our defense was poor, the most glaring thing to me was Bamba and Ross leaving shooters too much space to stand in no mans land. Bamba had positions in transition where he didnt contest Bey (if i remember correctly) to go for the rebound but not boxing out and giving offensive rebound. Watching him is so painfull for me.

Never in my life have gotten better at something or gained confidence by not doing that thing.

I think it’s because with Fultz returning down the road and no real SG with decent size, they are forcing him to learn a different role.

Well the team is rebuilding and in an experimental phase. Suggs does need to learn how to play off the ball as well play on it. To me they will most likely put the ball in his hands eventually at the end of the season.

But I can see it in Suggs's body language that his confidence is a bit fragile at the moment. There is possibility that you'd lose him and he wouldn't have the mental fortitude to attempt to be the player that he knows he can be. No need to push it right now.

And you don’t think playing a completely different role is causing the lack of confidence? I mean how comfortable would Jkidd would be if in his rookie year he’s forced to play off the ball? Not comparing the talent just the mindset.Remember Suggs is a QB in football and a facilitator in bball. It’s in his DNA to have the ball and facilitate/playmake.

[Xatticus]

I’m reading nothing into this loss. Hopefully Mosley learns about load management. He rode the starters hard the night before and we paid the price for it against Detroit. We’re just a much better team than we showed. I know we are all focused on development, but I think Mosley wants the validation from wins. I just don’t know why else you’d play Bamba for 39 minutes in the first game of a road back-to-back.

It’s fine. As long as the guys stay generally healthy and keep fighting, I’m unconcerned. I’m not rooting for losses and I don’t believe this team will be among the worst in the league if/when it ever gets healthy.

Don’t worry about Suggs. He will be fine. He will be better than fine. His defense is special. That block against Toronto… guards don’t do that.

[JF5]

Never in my life have gotten better at something or gained confidence by not doing that thing.

I think it’s because with Fultz returning down the road and no real SG with decent size, they are forcing him to learn a different role.

Well the team is rebuilding and in an experimental phase. Suggs does need to learn how to play off the ball as well play on it. To me they will most likely put the ball in his hands eventually at the end of the season.

But I can see it in Suggs's body language that his confidence is a bit fragile at the moment. There is possibility that you'd lose him and he wouldn't have the mental fortitude to attempt to be the player that he knows he can be. No need to push it right now.

And you don’t think playing a completely different role is causing the lack of confidence? I mean how comfortable would Jkidd would be if in his rookie year he’s forced to play off the ball? Not comparing the talent just the mindset.Remember Suggs is a QB in football and a facilitator in bball. It’s in his DNA to have the ball and facilitate/playmake.

You're doing a one size fits all mentality. Not everyone is thrown into the fire magically get better. Some are like Michael Jordan where they are star from the jump. Most others are usually like Kobe Bryant where it takes 4-5 years to reach that stardom status.

Seriously, these guys are 19-20 years of age. (Most are 1 year removed from high school play mind you who used their freakish athleticism as their advantage rather than tangible skill against ridiculously inferior talent) and you expect them to immediately go toe to toe with players in a league dominated by guys between 26-32 years of age at their physical/skill peak who are all themselves 6-11 years deep in the league. It's laughable to me.

Suggs is not Jason Kidd (as Kidd was a much more advanced player/prospect than Suggs entering the league). The season just started and he needs to get his legs under him. This guy has 4 years to become good. He'll get the opportunity.

[zaymon]

I dont understand why people blame Mosley for his rotations this game. It was perfect week from organizational perspective. Play starters and be competetive versus good teams and stealth tank versus fellow tankers. I dont know if its on purpose but it sure looked like it. The tank competition started but Detroid couldnt keep up becouse they just drafted 1st overall and it was Cade 1st game.

[Ralof]

After some consideration i dont think giving Suggs the ball to create is the best way to develop him. He has flaws which will not be improved with playing time. Its mostly ball handling and finishing at the rim. His decision making is not that bad. Playing him mostly on ball would propably kill his confidence (which he still has). I would like to see more Wagner and now also Okeke handling the ball.
Our defense was poor, the most glaring thing to me was Bamba and Ross leaving shooters too much space to stand in no mans land. Bamba had positions in transition where he didnt contest Bey (if i remember correctly) to go for the rebound but not boxing out and giving offensive rebound. Watching him is so painfull for me.

It makes more sense, during season that is complete waste ( i mean, we are 1-6 , it's almost impossible to be worst ) just give him ball and let him sink or swim. Because he is clearly sinking offball.
RJ Hampton is also sinking in his on-ball role so that's already 2 prospects that are drowning in roles they can't fill.

if you give him the ball right now is gonna flirt with double double every night,and i mean with that points+turnovers,his handles are that bad;also with his(non too explosive)first step could beat the opposite sg easily than a decent defensive pg.
mosley is protecting him right now,he's doing good.

btw his shooting form seems more than decent,best game he had vs toronto was because he hit a pair of three pointers from 8 meters.

let the guy be a complementary piece for now,playing defense and off the ball,with short portions of time when he has team in his hands,better if it is against opposite subs

[89Magicfan]

Well the team is rebuilding and in an experimental phase. Suggs does need to learn how to play off the ball as well play on it. To me they will most likely put the ball in his hands eventually at the end of the season.

But I can see it in Suggs's body language that his confidence is a bit fragile at the moment. There is possibility that you'd lose him and he wouldn't have the mental fortitude to attempt to be the player that he knows he can be. No need to push it right now.

And you don’t think playing a completely different role is causing the lack of confidence? I mean how comfortable would Jkidd would be if in his rookie year he’s forced to play off the ball? Not comparing the talent just the mindset.Remember Suggs is a QB in football and a facilitator in bball. It’s in his DNA to have the ball and facilitate/playmake.

You're doing a one size fits all mentality. Not everyone is thrown into the fire magically get better. Some are like Michael Jordan where they are star from the jump. Most others are usually like Kobe Bryant where it takes 4-5 years to reach that stardom status.

Seriously, these guys are 19-20 years of age. (Most are 1 year removed from high school play mind you who used their freakish athleticism as their advantage rather than tangible skill against ridiculously inferior talent) and you expect them to immediately go toe to toe with players in a league dominated by guys between 26-32 years of age at their physical/skill peak who are all themselves 6-11 years deep in the league. It's laughable to me.

Suggs is not Jason Kidd (as Kidd was a much more advanced player/prospect than Suggs entering the league). The season just started and he needs to get his legs under him. This guy has 4 years to become good. He'll get the opportunity.

You’re not understanding what I’m saying. It’s his role now compared to who he naturally is and who he was in college. I’m not concerned with his productivity right now. I’m concerned with his role.

Take anyone who’s strengths are specific go away from those strengths and play them entirely different.

Some people just thrive being a playmaker. Some thrive naturally being in the paint. Take a look at Scottie Barnes. They’re not asking him to be something different. They are using his strengths, who he is, and he’s playing well.

I could be wrong though. Maybe his future is more of a combo guard.

[ReadyOrlando]

The Magic are playing chess (not checkers) in developing Suggs. Fultz is the future starting PG Cole is the future backup PG. I belive Suggs will be starting at the SG position, but will occasionally run the offense (especially when he gets the rebound) What better time to develop Suggs's understanding of what it takes to be the primary ball handler than now while we have no expectations to win and Fultz, MCW, and Moore are "injured".

[jezzerinho]

Why punish Anthony when he's finally curbing some of his more selfish tendencies and actually playing pretty well by giving his minutes to Suggs, who isn't doing so well? Very bad message for a coach to send his team. Suggs will still get playing time and maybe Mosley can give him some of RJs minutes at point. But they're likely grooming him for SG/combo I'm the long run...

[JF5]

And you don’t think playing a completely different role is causing the lack of confidence? I mean how comfortable would Jkidd would be if in his rookie year he’s forced to play off the ball? Not comparing the talent just the mindset.Remember Suggs is a QB in football and a facilitator in bball. It’s in his DNA to have the ball and facilitate/playmake.

You're doing a one size fits all mentality. Not everyone is thrown into the fire magically get better. Some are like Michael Jordan where they are star from the jump. Most others are usually like Kobe Bryant where it takes 4-5 years to reach that stardom status.

Seriously, these guys are 19-20 years of age. (Most are 1 year removed from high school play mind you who used their freakish athleticism as their advantage rather than tangible skill against ridiculously inferior talent) and you expect them to immediately go toe to toe with players in a league dominated by guys between 26-32 years of age at their physical/skill peak who are all themselves 6-11 years deep in the league. It's laughable to me.

Suggs is not Jason Kidd (as Kidd was a much more advanced player/prospect than Suggs entering the league). The season just started and he needs to get his legs under him. This guy has 4 years to become good. He'll get the opportunity.

You’re not understanding what I’m saying. It’s his role now compared to who he naturally is and who he was in college. I’m not concerned with his productivity right now. I’m concerned with his role.

Take anyone who’s strengths are specific go away from those strengths and play them entirely different.

Some people just thrive being a playmaker. Some thrive naturally being in the paint. Take a look at Scottie Barnes. They’re not asking him to be something different. They are using his strengths, who he is, and he’s playing well.

I could be wrong though. Maybe his future is more of a combo guard.

I mean since high-school he's had trouble with his handle/ball security which hurts his penetration ability. Given that it hasn't been fixed just entering the league as you have guys like Scottie Barnes/Jalen Green who have no problem getting to the the rim. I don't know if its something he can fix during a season of just giving him the ball.

The reason that he's taking all these jumpshots is because he doesn't have any confidence in his driving ability given how many times he turns it over or loses the ball. To me its an easier path for him to get comfortable (which is what he's doing by spotting up and taking all these 3s) than just telling the Kid with already shaky confidence to keep trying to do something that he's always struggled with since he's started playing basketball on a high level. Just looking at him he'd be best to try to improve his handling in the offseason/later this season so he doesn't have fear of taking the ball to the rim.

Also, you do have other guys like Cole Anthony and Markelle Fultz to try to develop too. During this rebuilding phase you want to mix and match your line ups to try to see how versatile you can make your team. Suggs is a big PG who can easily play the 2 next to Fultz once he matures (as you mentioned). They both do a lot of things well. If they can play off each other and make each other better they can be really one of the best backcourts in the league.