2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation

[Saberestar]

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No 75th special City jersey for us?

[SunsRback4Good]

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No 75th special City jersey for us?

Nope, we arent special enough.

[bwgood77]

Yeah, hopefully there are some names at PF. I think Thad Young might be a better player than Crowder, but the spacing would be terrible. Kevin Love is playing very well so far this year, but I'm not a salary cap wiz so I don't know what details go into that. I know those are the guys that are basically mentioned all the time, but if they were here I'd envision either of them playing easily north of ~24 mpg and either (at least in Love's case) starting and also absorbing basically all of the backup C minutes.

How is Kevin Love playing well? He is shooting 21% from 3 and 44% from 2. His efg% is 39.5%. Plus he said he really loves the group he is playing with in Cleveland according to our announcers.

Who do you think got significantly better that is a contender? I still think Utah is the best team and who knows how we do last year against them if they are healthier and knock off the Clippers in the playoffs.

I think the Lakers are clearly worse without KCP, Caruso, Schroder, Kuzma and Harrell and having Westbrook, Monk, etc, instead.

If Kawhi comes back I think the Clips are the best team but they are off to a horrible start..worse than us. I guess that leaves Denver who may be better than us when healthy. A backcourt of Murray and Barton with Morris off the bench is certainly a lot better than Campuzzo and Rivers. They added Jeff Green but he's playing awful too.

That doesn't mean I think we win it all or necessarily the west because it requires health, luck, and everyone clicking, but I think we are probably fine just have a few guys with slow starts. I think Bridges has looked great and Ayton had a couple of games with lower rebounding and points than you'd like, but he's looked good overall and really good the last couple of games.

I like the McGee addition and I think Shamet will end up looking better. Jalen Smith looked pretty good out there and it was his first time ever playing decent minutes when things mattered.

TWolves look pretty good. I don't think Dallas is looking good and Portland doesn't really scare me despite the big loss to them.

The Grizzlies are probably the team people shouldn't sleep on. They are good and deep, but I don't know if they are quite WCF good yet.

No offense to McGee and Shamet. I think they’re nice additions, but the championship isn’t going to be won because we got them in the offseason. Nor will it be won with Bridges 15ppg and Aytons 14 ppg. It’s just not enough.

We still have just one dude who reliably gets his own shot and he’s barely an average 3 point shooter in Booker. Paul is ok at it.

I said love is playing well because he’s sleepwalking to double doubles in 20 mpg. I think Crowder would have a hard time holding him off in the rotation.

The story hasn’t changed as far as what works in the playoffs. The more guys you have who can succeed when the refs swallow their whistle and the game becomes a wrestling match, with 8 player rotations, the better you will do. McGee and Shamet are just not those guys lol.

Also, you still have to beat the eastern conference champ to win.

Like I said earlier, I think we are going to be fine record wise. But as far as actually winning the championship I’d have several teams over us come playoffs time.

I meant to mention the teams in the east, where I think the Bucks, Nets and possibly another team or two are ahead of us. So you'd have maybe a few there, Utah, a healthy Clippers team and Denver. But I expect Ayton and Bridges to be improved. If Love scores points for them it's bad. Bridges and Ayton are our 3rd and 4th guys. Paul can get his shot off any time.

So you are saying we need someone better than Ayton or Bridges to insert in there? I agree Shamet and McGee are not great additions but if we are talking about last year's team that was a team that was basically a bounce or two from beating the Bucks. We nearly beat them in games 4, 5 and 6, but had costly turnovers near the end of 4 and 5. We were probably a player like McGee away from beating them. And we were missing Saric.

But we were probably lucky to be there. The way I look at it we are ahead of schedule.

I'm not necessarily arguing that I think we are that much better, or that we are ready to win a championship, just curious what teams you think made major additions, that is, who were already contenders? The Bulls and Knicks made major moves, so I suppose you could mean one or both of them..but I don't see another team that did unless you mean the Lakers, but I don't really think of them like that.

It's true we are unlikely to win a championship but I think we are more likely to win one than I would have said last year at this time, given the playoff experience our guys got. The problem is the aging Paul giving us a short window. I don't think Bridges and Ayton are our problem.

Now of course if you think us getting a guy BETTER than those 2 in addition to those two without giving up one of those two or Book that's just not going to happen.

The key is those two scoring more, a better distribution of scoring. Them scoring 13 and 14 pts is not good given their efficiency compared to Book.

I think a key for the future if Book can continue this ast/to ratio is turning him into a PG.

We really need to stagger Paul and Book in addition to playing them together as much as possible and let Book run pg when Paul sits. If you do this, it readies you for a Paul injury or significant decline. Then you can run a lineup of Book/Bridges/Cam/Crowder/Ayton

Paul, aside from one 1/10 game is like 54% from 2 and 50% from 3 and averaging 11.25 apg so he hasn't really dropped off yet. Each of our players have had a bad game or two, and Crowder mostly bad games, along with Cam and Shamet but those guys will pick it up.

I wasn't a fan of the McGee addition but he's fine and when Saric comes back, if healthy, it gives us a different look.

Smith may be a nice add as the season goes on too. There is no reason to think he won't progress.

But I think my expectations are a lot different from you. It is VERY rare for a team with our experience to make it. The stars kind of aligned for us perfectly to make it last year with monster playoffs from Ayton, Paul at times when he wasn't hurt or had COVID, and Booker at other times along with timely injuries by other teams. We may have won the first two rounds with those two healthy but not the Clips series.

The Nets could be unbeatable if at full strength but they haven't looked good so far. The Bucks have so much playoff experience and one of the best players in the NBA so they will be tougher than us in the playofs unless our players take a huge step forward (Book, Bridges and Ayton) but given the first two are 25 and Ayton is 23 there is no reason to think they won't get better. Cam Johnson will be 26 soon so he probably has less upside but still should have some. And Payne should have a lot, along with 24 year old Shamet as he learns to fit in.

I think what gets us better is progression from our big 3 aside from Paul and his continued leadership. But simply being better doesn't mean we can win it. Though I don't expect to.

We'd be much worse with Love though. He is washed. With him our efficiency goes down. Any pts we get from him are a negative. I am unsure why people view extremely inefficient guys as good additions. Points scored by them instead of anyone else hurts.

Learning not to simply go by raw stats is what took teams to new levels as they learned how to be vastly more efficient and not rely on guys who score a lot at low efficiency or relying on post players trying to score iso down low going against double teams and being primarily finishers. Most of the best Cs have the 3 ball and are great passers and playmakers.

One thing Ayton has been a lot better at as well is active hands on D. He has doubled his steals at 1.4 a game and had some hustle saving balls out of bounds, etc. He is also about tied for his best #s per game at 11.4 and has the highest efg% so far despite shooting 4 3s at 25%. His defense has been solid and he's been more active, particularly when people get him more involved.

I think if Book continues his passing he can become more like a Doncic/Harden type player with his pts/assists where he averages more like 25 and maybe double digit assists, particularly when Paul declines and is gone. It makes looking for a PG of the future less important.

[bwgood77]

I still think Olynyk would be a good get. Definitely helps with spacing. Rebounds well, passes well, and plays decent defense.

But what do we have that they'd want? They're pretty solid at the 4 with Grant/ Stewart/ Garza in addition to Olynk already.

Draft picks ... we have draft picks

Not until 2024 and probably not too good of ones. Not sure how valuable those would be unless Book leaves with Paul also gone.

[bwgood77]

But what do we have that they'd want? They're pretty solid at the 4 with Grant/ Stewart/ Garza in addition to Olynk already.

Draft picks ... we have draft picks

If we're giving up picks and possibly players in
The deal, I'd personally prefer Wood or Boucher. But I suppose Olynk wouldn't be a bad 3rd option. I'd just personally prefer a better/more mobile and versatile defensive option. And Boucher I believe would come cheaper. Depending upon what exactly they'd want, I'd be on board with it perhaps?

Raptors fans think Boucher sucks. viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2132766&start=20#p94376643

Not sure if you see but he is always offered up on the trade board. He may look good on the box score but I trust their analysis more. Would not give up first for him or any key player. Maybe a Saric but that might not be worth it either. But he would be an addition and is expiring, so it would be an addition if it didn't cost us much and help us out with the tax.

Wood would be a nice get but he likely doesn't want to come off the bench and I don't see the Rockets trading him unless they get a premier young player or likely high pick.

[bwgood77]

We really do not have a big three and we really need to identify them without counting Chris Paul.

We only have Book that we can count on to be a part of a big three after CP3 moves on. Ayton has shown signs on both ends of the court. He needs to stay focused and we need to get him the ball consistently to keep him involved in the game. Ayton could be number 2. I just do not see Bridges as part of a Big Three. I certainly want him as part of our team but we need another player to fill that #3 spot and he isn't on our current roster IMO. I expect that we will have to do a sign and trade this next off season. I believe that is why we did not give Ayton the max.

Let's say we sign another max player and another team offers Ayton the Max, can we match that offer? That would give us three max contracts.

We don't have the cap space to sign any player for more than the MLE, even if we don't sign Ayton at all. We can match Ayton. We cannot match and do a S&T with him.

It's funny, it seems many of the people lowest on Bridges are our own fans, purely due to PPG. Those should go up for him and Ayton once Paul declines or takes a back seat, but for now, his experience and confidence gets us those baskets in the clutch.

We need to rely more and more on getting the ball to Bridges and Ayton for clutch time end of game shots. Even if they miss some, eventually you need to have more than 2 players (or especially one) who teams always know we can go to because he won't give it up for a wide open 3. That makes stuff like the Valleyoop possible which basically prevented us from likely losing that series. We simply didn't have enough time to do anything else or we would have gone to Booker for a prayer shot.

[Revived]

I think even with the slow start Suns will make playoffs. Miami did last season as well.

Everything will need to click again for this to work in the playoffs like it did before.

I’ve said this before but Monty needs to realize McGee can’t play every night. Only against teams with backups with big size. Otherwise play Jalen Smith at the 5 or hell even Johnson at the 5.

[Saberestar]

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[matt131]

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[Jdiddy701]

Suns really screwed up that Jalen Smith pick, huh?


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[BobbieL]

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What a wasted draft pick - the guy the Kings go was right there
Sarver saving money

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[Jdiddy701]

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What a wasted draft pick - the guy the Kings go was right there
Sarver saving money

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I like Jalen Smith and feel it should have been picked up, but if you can fill that roster spot with a better player, you have to do it.


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[BobbieL]

crickets on the Jordan Schultz bombshell story

that dude is never right

[bwgood77]

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What a wasted draft pick - the guy the Kings go was right there
Sarver saving money

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I like Jalen Smith and feel it should have been picked up, but if you can fill that roster spot with a better player, you have to do it.

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That's crazy, especially after giving all that money to Shamet. What is their aversion to big guys?

I wonder if they hope to re-sign him for the minimum or something. I imagine he will get a decent contract somewhere else if he plays well for us, but now what is the incentive for us to have him play well for us and price him out of our range?

I guess it is cap savings if we replace him with a minimum player.

It's quite amazing they went from "could have had Haliburton" to having nothing to show for the 10th pick in a pretty good draft with guys like Haliburton, Bane and Vassell available at that pick.

[King4Day]

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No 75th special City jersey for us?

Nope, we arent special enough.

I'm pretty sure we turned it down (along with Utah I think) to keep the city jerseys for another season

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Draft picks ... we have draft picks

If we're giving up picks and possibly players in
The deal, I'd personally prefer Wood or Boucher. But I suppose Olynk wouldn't be a bad 3rd option. I'd just personally prefer a better/more mobile and versatile defensive option. And Boucher I believe would come cheaper. Depending upon what exactly they'd want, I'd be on board with it perhaps?

Raptors players think Boucher sucks. viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2132766&start=20#p94376643

Not sure if you see but he is always offered up on the trade board. He may look good on the box score but I trust their analysis more. Would not give up first for him or any key player. Maybe a Saric but that might not be worth it either. But he would be an addition and is expiring, so it would be an addition if it didn't cost us much and help us out with the tax.

Wood would be a nice get but he likely doesn't want to come off the bench and I don't see the Rockets trading him unless they get a premier young player or likely high pick.

I assume you mean two fans rather than "Raptors players"?

I like Boucher, though admittedly, I don't watch him all the time like those guys do. In any case, he's not what we need. Just pick up Jalen's option and we'll have that role covered.

It's still way too early to be talking about a trade - especially in the absence of a premier player known to be available. Christian Wood is the only player I can think of worth pursuing at this point (and I'm still a little baffled that we didn't target him last offseason, as I had repeatedly recommended).

This may be slightly off-topic, but one might wonder whether we'd target a "5-year rookie max" type player for an upgrade at the 4. I've thought about this statement by James Jones since it was made and have decided it's total BS - just JJ covering for Sarver. I'm hopeful that the rumor on realgm that Sarver is likely to be ousted due to the details in the upcoming ESPN report, so a new owner can wipe the slate clean and just give Deandre the max he deserves. Because the truth is, what available (or potentially available) player would I want locked into a 5-year deal more than Deandre? No one. Pascal's on a 4-year deal, and Ben Simmons would be a terrible fit. Shai is a pipe dream. That leaves Fox in a few years, or John Collins if the Hawks decide to go another direction. We're talking a tiny pool of players here.

That slight additional flexibility isn't worth poisoning the well and risking our chances of extending Deandre again once his new contract expires. If we're limited in the future by the fact that we've got Deandre and Booker locked up, so be it. I've believed for about a year now that Deandre is a cornerstone for this franchise, and his continuing improvement fills me with hope that we'll contend for years to come. It's a BS excuse that is totally at odds with everything else JJ has done. I have to think it's down to Sarver...

... Could be, Sarver was aware of the story and was worried that if Ayton suffered an injury after signing the deal, he would end up receiving less money from a forced sale. Actually, that makes a ton of sense.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Big yikes on everything Smith. Like obviously a bad evaluation and then not at least getting something back in a trade this summer. Probably the biggest negative mark on Jones GM career thus far.

Also for Smith, like how **** bad do you have to be in practice to not get that option picked up. Like can he not understanding the system or something?

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[King4Day]

crickets on the Jordan Schultz bombshell story

that dude is never right

I really think there is a story ready to publish but Sarver and his lawyers told he, and ESPN, to prepare for major legal ramifications.
Shultz probably talked to ESPN and they said it's not worth the risk.
That doesn't help those who may have been impacted but maybe Shultz is going back to check his sources to make sure this isn't just something to make him look bad/sell the team, and is a real situation.

[darealjuice]

I can't believe how hard we whiffed on Jalen Smith in a draft with several clearly better players that made more sense for us drafted after him. The pick never made sense, unless you convinced yourself he was a power forward despite doing it poorly as a freshman and playing his best ball at center as a sophomore.

I'm curious whether this move is a money saver, if we think he's just bad, or both. Either way, it's unacceptable to waste the 10th pick in the draft like this.

[bwgood77]

I wonder if this is a Sarver thing. Jones was obviously high on him and still spoke highly of him. Monty just played him and said he would get time. They have spent time developing him. But Sarver has to pay the tax next year AND only sees him not playing in games. This sounds a lot like Joe Johnson extension..saving $5 million because you just paid a lot of money to other free agents.