Watching Bulls/76ers, watching INSIDE OUT OFFENSES

[Pistonrings]

Please turn on this game if you can.
The difference in the offensive schemes compared to what Casey has us doing is simply astonishing.

I am marvelling at how each of these teams FIRST choose to attack the basket, then they move, they actually cut along the baseline for easy layups, they go inside the 3 line FIRST almost every time. I actually have seen the Bulls run DOUBLE SCREENS a couple times. It is amazing to watch and so obviously different than what we do.

When our ball handlers go inside the 3 line, it's rarely to really run a play there but always intends to pass it back out to one of the other 3 standing behind the 3 line. These teams first intend to attack. They go right at the paint, screens, double screens, baseline cuts while another guy is moving around the paint from one side to the other fast.

Please, if you can, find a stream and get this game on. Look at the player movement without the ball. Constantly cutting and moving.

They take 3 pointers, yes, but they are in the flow and most all the time built from the inside out. The 3 is an option for them WHEN THEIR INSIDE MOVEMENT forces the opponent to collapse and THEN they get it out to a wide open shooter.

So please, get on first row sports or vip box and get the game on, 2nd half just started. You will have no doubt what our problem is watching these offenses work from inside out.

[Pharaoh]

Their offences fit their personel though

Chicago has Ball, LaVine, DDR to slash + Vuc to run the offense through down low or at the elbow.

They can penetrate the D in a variety of ways and once that's done movement off the ball gets open 3s or mid range shots.

Philly is very similar.

For us:

We don't have kind of big despite KO being better than most assume.

Our guards also have nowhere near the experience the Bulls guys have.

Remember that most people once called Lonzo a "bust"! Funny how things change over time.

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[mattao313]

Their offences fit their personel though

Chicago has Ball, LaVine, DDR to slash + Vuc to run the offense through down low or at the elbow.

They can penetrate the D in a variety of ways and once that's done movement off the ball gets open 3s or mid range shots.

Philly is very similar.

For us:

We don't have kind of big despite KO being better than most assume.

Our guards also have nowhere near the experience the Bulls guys have.

Remember that most people once called Lonzo a "bust"! Funny how things change over time.

Sent from my SM-G781B using RealGM Forums mobile app

Lonzo isn't a bust but he definitely isn't what he was projected to be. He's basically just a 3&D pg.

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[Rip32]

Everybody want to holla this small ball sh?t but old school basketball still work. Find an offensive that maximizes your team ability an potential instead of copying Golden State flow. Our motto is Detroit Hustles different right? Then, find your on groove and stop sucking on these other teams

[mattao313]

Everybody want to holla this small ball sh?t but old school basketball still work. Find an offensive that maximizes your team ability an potential instead of copying Golden State flow. Our motto is Detroit Hustles different right? Then, find your on groove and stop sucking on these other teams

I agree too much small ball we need a legit springy big man on the squad.

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[zeebneeb]

I watch a ton of basketball (I'm watching now) and the offense that Casey is using is brutal, and actually doesn't fit the personel that he has. It just doesn't.

I'm hoping some changes are made for the next game because if I see everyone standing along the three point line again, ill just switch to a different game. Cade should be posting up. Bey should be posting up. Grant should be posting up, ALL with a motion offense, not guys standing around the arc, waiting for the defense to collapse. If the defense doesn't collapse, you've got another ISO, with no shot at an offensive rebound.

The team has zero back-cuts, or baseline drives. Its all top of the key straight line drives which are super easy to defend.

I honestly believe this team is going to need 20 games to gel, but in the meantime, a new offense has to be installed. What they have now is basically rec league ball where everyone runs around the top of the key, handing off the basketball. Its so basic anyone can gaurd it.

[Pharaoh]

I watch a ton of basketball (I'm watching now) and the offense that Casey is using is brutal, and actually doesn't fit the personel that he has. It just doesn't.

I'm hoping some changes are made for the next game because if I see everyone standing along the three point line again, ill just switch to a different game. Cade should be posting up. Bey should be posting up. Grant should be posting up, ALL with a motion offense, not guys standing around the arc, waiting for the defense to collapse. If the defense doesn't collapse, you've got another ISO, with no shot at an offensive rebound.

The team has zero back-cuts, or baseline drives. Its all top of the key straight line drives which are super easy to defend.

I honestly believe this team is going to need 20 games to gel, but in the meantime, a new offense has to be installed. What they have now is basically rec league ball where everyone runs around the top of the key, handing off the basketball. Its so basic anyone can gaurd it.

What we run is basic offense and I believe that's deliberate as we're starting to "install" the bare minimum into our kids.

Once they nail that we move to the next install, adding whatever the next steps are in Casey's playbook.

If you go back to how his Toronto teams played: their offense was different to what we see now.

Gotta be patient.

This is the start of Year 2 in the rebuild, not year 5 or 7 or 10.



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[Pharaoh]

Their offences fit their personel though

Chicago has Ball, LaVine, DDR to slash + Vuc to run the offense through down low or at the elbow.

They can penetrate the D in a variety of ways and once that's done movement off the ball gets open 3s or mid range shots.

Philly is very similar.

For us:

We don't have kind of big despite KO being better than most assume.

Our guards also have nowhere near the experience the Bulls guys have.

Remember that most people once called Lonzo a "bust"! Funny how things change over time.

Sent from my SM-G781B using RealGM Forums mobile app

Lonzo isn't a bust but he definitely isn't what he was projected to be. He's basically just a 3&D pg.

Sent from my moto g play (2021) using RealGM mobile app

He's now making winning plays as opposed to padding his own numbers.

If you don't see the growth in his overall game then I don't know what to tell you.

The game isn't played on numbers and stats despite the fact we over analyse every number.

Some dudes put up mad stats (KAT). Some dudes just play (PJ Tucker)





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[zeebneeb]

I watch a ton of basketball (I'm watching now) and the offense that Casey is using is brutal, and actually doesn't fit the personel that he has. It just doesn't.

I'm hoping some changes are made for the next game because if I see everyone standing along the three point line again, ill just switch to a different game. Cade should be posting up. Bey should be posting up. Grant should be posting up, ALL with a motion offense, not guys standing around the arc, waiting for the defense to collapse. If the defense doesn't collapse, you've got another ISO, with no shot at an offensive rebound.

The team has zero back-cuts, or baseline drives. Its all top of the key straight line drives which are super easy to defend.

I honestly believe this team is going to need 20 games to gel, but in the meantime, a new offense has to be installed. What they have now is basically rec league ball where everyone runs around the top of the key, handing off the basketball. Its so basic anyone can gaurd it.

What we run is basic offense and I believe that's deliberate as we're starting to "install" the bare minimum into our kids.

Once they nail that we move to the next install, adding whatever the next steps are in Casey's playbook.

If you go back to how his Toronto teams played: their offense was different to what we see now.

Gotta be patient.

This is the start of Year 2 in the rebuild, not year 5 or 7 or 10.



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Casey was fired in Toronto for being to rigid. The team shot 45+ three pointers last night, making only 8 of them. At the 20 mark changes should have been made in the offense.

That is exactly how he got fired in Toronto. I've got a long memory and remember discussing with Raptor fans who provided charts on their best, and worst lineups. All the statistics were there, and Casey continued to utilize the same lineups, over, and over again, in the playoffs. He was fired for this exact thing.

Patience is one thing. Being so stubborn you refuse to stop doing what's killing you is something entirely different.

[bstein14]

I still think Casey is the right coach for where we are. He's a coach the players like to play for. He is a motivator. He is a stepping stone coach. He isn't the coach you want once you're in the playoffs trying to make adjustments, but he's a good enough coach to get you there. That said, I certainly wouldn't be opposed to getting more out of the team on the offense end perhaps he needs to lean a bit more into his assistants.

[Pharaoh]

I still think Casey is the right coach for where we are. He's a coach the players like to play for. He is a motivator. He is a stepping stone coach. He isn't the coach you want once you're in the playoffs trying to make adjustments, but he's a good enough coach to get you there. That said, I certainly wouldn't be opposed to getting more out of the team on the offense end perhaps he needs to lean a bit more into his assistants.

Agree with this assessment of Casey as Coach.

Kind of like how we had Rick Carlisle for a few years but Larry Brown broke through.

There's also the fact that Casey's playoff failures were mostly due to LeBron. When you get beaten by one of the GOATS then such is life.



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[Billl]

Casey relies on his guards a ton and frankly, our guards have been bad. Really bad. He runs basic sets and then counts on his pg to make plays. It let Lowry and FVV be showcased as stars, but if you don't have that type of guy tearing it up, you just end up with a bunch of safe passes around the perimeter and then someone trying to make a 1-on-1 play. And if you don't have guys knocking down enough shots to give that 1-on-1 guy space? It's going to be really ugly.

[Rip32]

If a coach can't adapt his style to the talent on the roster then he's a terrible coach. He's a 1 dimensional coach. The Pistons need to fire Dewayne Casey!!!

[flow]

I watch a ton of basketball (I'm watching now) and the offense that Casey is using is brutal, and actually doesn't fit the personel that he has. It just doesn't.

I'm hoping some changes are made for the next game because if I see everyone standing along the three point line again, ill just switch to a different game. Cade should be posting up. Bey should be posting up. Grant should be posting up, ALL with a motion offense, not guys standing around the arc, waiting for the defense to collapse. If the defense doesn't collapse, you've got another ISO, with no shot at an offensive rebound.

The team has zero back-cuts, or baseline drives. Its all top of the key straight line drives which are super easy to defend.

I honestly believe this team is going to need 20 games to gel, but in the meantime, a new offense has to be installed. What they have now is basically rec league ball where everyone runs around the top of the key, handing off the basketball. Its so basic anyone can gaurd it.

What we run is basic offense and I believe that's deliberate as we're starting to "install" the bare minimum into our kids.

Once they nail that we move to the next install, adding whatever the next steps are in Casey's playbook.

If you go back to how his Toronto teams played: their offense was different to what we see now.

Gotta be patient.

This is the start of Year 2 in the rebuild, not year 5 or 7 or 10.



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You're giving Casey too much credit. There's no gradual 'installation' here. He's always sucked at X & O's. And as far as being different from Toronto, Casey proudly admits as much.
He has announced many times since coming to Detroit that he has seen the light and is now devoted to the 3 ball. But again, whatever he thinks he's running, he sucks at it.

[flow]

I still think Casey is the right coach for where we are. He's a coach the players like to play for. He is a motivator. He is a stepping stone coach. He isn't the coach you want once you're in the playoffs trying to make adjustments, but he's a good enough coach to get you there. That said, I certainly wouldn't be opposed to getting more out of the team on the offense end perhaps he needs to lean a bit more into his assistants.

I disagree. He may have been an ok coach to have last year. But now that you have Cade, along with another high pick coming up, things are different. The ante is raised. The coaching needs to be better.

[bstein14]

I still think Casey is the right coach for where we are. He's a coach the players like to play for. He is a motivator. He is a stepping stone coach. He isn't the coach you want once you're in the playoffs trying to make adjustments, but he's a good enough coach to get you there. That said, I certainly wouldn't be opposed to getting more out of the team on the offense end perhaps he needs to lean a bit more into his assistants.

I disagree. He may have been an ok coach to have last year. But now that you have Cade, along with another high pick coming up, things are different. The ante is raised. The coaching needs to be better.

In game coaching probably isn't as huge as player development coaching and skill building and that's why they brought Beilein in.

Great players are made in the offseason 100%... as much as getting game experience is helpful its not nearly important as getting 1000s of reps in working on specific skills so its second nature come game time.

[flow]

I still think Casey is the right coach for where we are. He's a coach the players like to play for. He is a motivator. He is a stepping stone coach. He isn't the coach you want once you're in the playoffs trying to make adjustments, but he's a good enough coach to get you there. That said, I certainly wouldn't be opposed to getting more out of the team on the offense end perhaps he needs to lean a bit more into his assistants.

I disagree. He may have been an ok coach to have last year. But now that you have Cade, along with another high pick coming up, things are different. The ante is raised. The coaching needs to be better.

In game coaching probably isn't as huge as player development coaching and skill building and that's why they brought Beilein in.

Great players are made in the offseason 100%... as much as getting game experience is helpful its not nearly important as getting 1000s of reps in working on specific skills so its second nature come game time.

In game coaching matters to the players. Being put on a position to thrive on the court matters to the players. And winning matters to them, too. The goal is to keep them beyond their rookie contracts.