The truth about FVV

[YelloC]

It seems like Freddy realized that he isn’t going to get any calls at the rim so he adjusted his game accordingly and is looking for open shooters when getting in the paint.
I thought we’d miss Kyle’s charges but Fred and Trent’s deflection/steal rate is filling that void.
He’s playing his role admirably.

[pingpongrac]

I've been a big critic of Fred's game until recently, but he's playing great now. It's not that all the criticisms were wrong, but that he has changed his game and made improvements. Passing more, forcing it less. This midrange shot he is showing tonight against Wizards is something he's needed for awhile. It's great to see.

You guys aren't getting off that easy. Let's revisit the critiques:

Fred can't pass: wrong
Fred has no vision: wrong
Fred can't throw a lob: wrong
Fred is selfish: wrong
Fred isn't a good teammate: wrong
Fred is one of the worst PGs in the league: wrong
Fred freezes out teammates: wrong
Fred is jealous of Barnes: wrong
Fred doesn't know how to run an offense: wrong
Fred drives the rim too much: wrong (there's qualifications but it's still wrong)



Which begs the question.....which of the critiques weren't wrong?

You can't say blanket wrong to all those points. Even tonight he played a great game, but struggled to execute half court offense down the stretch. Lucky for us the Wiz missed some clutch shots.

All the personal things on your list are red herrings, I never said Fred a bad teammate or selfish. He's a great leader. Awesome defender. But tonight a classic example happened. Gary had the ball in the middle of the break, hits Fred on the left wing with the simple bounce pass for a layup. Very next possession another steal to fast break, this time Fred has ball in middle with a teammate on his left. Does he make the same easy pass Gary just gave him? No he drives into a bigger guy, fortunately draws a foul and makes 2. Yes it's still 2 points but he could've been blocked too. No need to make difficult plays when easy ones are right there to make.

But he still played a fine game, shot well, scored 30. All that can be true and still his play can be critiqued for other things.

See, this is the BS y'all come up with that is annoying. The play you're talking about (which was off of a miss, not a steal) was a great play by FVV. Kuzma was in an awful position and back pedaling a bit while FVV had a full head of steam. I swear some people just look for anything that COULD have been a bad play by FVV and use it as proof to keep up the narrative that FVV is a ball-hog and/or takes bad shots.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using RealGM mobile app

[mdenny]

You guys aren't getting off that easy. Let's revisit the critiques:

Fred can't pass: wrong
Fred has no vision: wrong
Fred can't throw a lob: wrong
Fred is selfish: wrong
Fred isn't a good teammate: wrong
Fred is one of the worst PGs in the league: wrong
Fred freezes out teammates: wrong
Fred is jealous of Barnes: wrong
Fred doesn't know how to run an offense: wrong
Fred drives the rim too much: wrong (there's qualifications but it's still wrong)



Which begs the question.....which of the critiques weren't wrong?

You can't say blanket wrong to all those points. Even tonight he played a great game, but struggled to execute half court offense down the stretch. Lucky for us the Wiz missed some clutch shots.

All the personal things on your list are red herrings, I never said Fred a bad teammate or selfish. He's a great leader. Awesome defender. But tonight a classic example happened. Gary had the ball in the middle of the break, hits Fred on the left wing with the simple bounce pass for a layup. Very next possession another steal to fast break, this time Fred has ball in middle with a teammate on his left. Does he make the same easy pass Gary just gave him? No he drives into a bigger guy, fortunately draws a foul and makes 2. Yes it's still 2 points but he could've been blocked too. No need to make difficult plays when easy ones are right there to make.

But he still played a fine game, shot well, scored 30. All that can be true and still his play can be critiqued for other things.

See, this is the BS y'all come up with that is annoying. The play you're talking about (which was off of a miss, not a steal) was a great play by FVV. Kuzma was in an awful position and back pedaling a bit while FVV had a full head of steam. I swear some people just look for anything that COULD have been a bad play by FVV and use it as proof to keep up the narrative that FVV is a ball-hog and/or takes bad shots.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using RealGM mobile app

Fred closed the game out exactly like one should. Protect the ball, run the clock. Casual fans were saying "he's dribbling too much...he's not moving the ball".

Nobody who knows basketball would say that.

[pingpongrac]

You can't say blanket wrong to all those points. Even tonight he played a great game, but struggled to execute half court offense down the stretch. Lucky for us the Wiz missed some clutch shots.

All the personal things on your list are red herrings, I never said Fred a bad teammate or selfish. He's a great leader. Awesome defender. But tonight a classic example happened. Gary had the ball in the middle of the break, hits Fred on the left wing with the simple bounce pass for a layup. Very next possession another steal to fast break, this time Fred has ball in middle with a teammate on his left. Does he make the same easy pass Gary just gave him? No he drives into a bigger guy, fortunately draws a foul and makes 2. Yes it's still 2 points but he could've been blocked too. No need to make difficult plays when easy ones are right there to make.

But he still played a fine game, shot well, scored 30. All that can be true and still his play can be critiqued for other things.

See, this is the BS y'all come up with that is annoying. The play you're talking about (which was off of a miss, not a steal) was a great play by FVV. Kuzma was in an awful position and back pedaling a bit while FVV had a full head of steam. I swear some people just look for anything that COULD have been a bad play by FVV and use it as proof to keep up the narrative that FVV is a ball-hog and/or takes bad shots.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using RealGM mobile app

Fred closed the game out exactly like one should. Protect the ball, run the clock. Casual fans were saying "he's dribbling too much...he's not moving the ball".

Nobody who knows basketball would say that.

Yep. FVV did what we needed him to do down the stretch with the exception of the ATO play where he dribbled around a bit too much then forced up an off-balance shot as the shot clock expired with ~4 minutes left. What you don't want to see if what Svi did with less than 90 seconds leff after getting a stop in a 7-point game. If you come away with a few empty possessions while eating up 20+ seconds of the clock each time, that's much more preferable to TOVs or misses early in the possession.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using RealGM mobile app

[mdenny]

See, this is the BS y'all come up with that is annoying. The play you're talking about (which was off of a miss, not a steal) was a great play by FVV. Kuzma was in an awful position and back pedaling a bit while FVV had a full head of steam. I swear some people just look for anything that COULD have been a bad play by FVV and use it as proof to keep up the narrative that FVV is a ball-hog and/or takes bad shots.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using RealGM mobile app

Fred closed the game out exactly like one should. Protect the ball, run the clock. Casual fans were saying "he's dribbling too much...he's not moving the ball".

Nobody who knows basketball would say that.

Yep. FVV did what we needed him to do down the stretch with the exception of the ATO play where he dribbled around a bit too much then forced up an off-balance shot as the shot clock expired with ~4 minutes left. What you don't want to see if what Svi did with less than 90 seconds leff after getting a stop in a 7-point game. If you come away with a few empty possessions while eating up 20+ seconds of the clock each time, that's much more preferable to TOVs or misses early in the possession.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using RealGM mobile app

I mean....we can go possession by possession and find mistakes by Jordan in the flu game.

But FVV is the only raptor player who can have a game like this and this board STILL ignorantly criticizes his play when the observation is empirically incorrect. I mean...has anyone wondered why Nurse has not said something like "I wish Freddy kept moving the ball in the last couple minutes there when we were leading'.....He hasn't said something like that because it goes against basic basketball strategy.

[Valard]

If you're still trying to nit pick FVV through the first 9 games of the season to fit your asshat agenda---- you're an idiot.

Move on.

[mrdressup]

The truth is that Siakam outed him out as Darth Fader. We have the dark side of the force leading us and we did not know it.

[WaltFrazier]

It seems like Freddy realized that he isn’t going to get any calls at the rim so he adjusted his game accordingly and is looking for open shooters when getting in the paint.
I thought we’d miss Kyle’s charges but Fred and Trent’s deflection/steal rate is filling that void.
He’s playing his role admirably.

Exactly. He has changed his game a bit, not forcing at the rim as much, distributing more from the paint back out to shooters.

[WaltFrazier]

Fred closed the game out exactly like one should. Protect the ball, run the clock. Casual fans were saying "he's dribbling too much...he's not moving the ball".

Nobody who knows basketball would say that.

Yep. FVV did what we needed him to do down the stretch with the exception of the ATO play where he dribbled around a bit too much then forced up an off-balance shot as the shot clock expired with ~4 minutes left. What you don't want to see if what Svi did with less than 90 seconds leff after getting a stop in a 7-point game. If you come away with a few empty possessions while eating up 20+ seconds of the clock each time, that's much more preferable to TOVs or misses early in the possession.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using RealGM mobile app

I mean....we can go possession by possession and find mistakes by Jordan in the flu game.

But FVV is the only raptor player who can have a game like this and this board STILL ignorantly criticizes his play when the observation is empirically incorrect. I mean...has anyone wondered why Nurse has not said something like "I wish Freddy kept moving the ball in the last couple minutes there when we were leading'.....He hasn't said something like that because it goes against basic basketball strategy.

I have definitely heard Nurse make comments about how the ball was "humming", things like that. He likes ball movement. Just because he doesn't call out Fred by name doesn't mean he likes the clock being dribbled down without a good shot resulting.

[WaltFrazier]

You can't say blanket wrong to all those points. Even tonight he played a great game, but struggled to execute half court offense down the stretch. Lucky for us the Wiz missed some clutch shots.

All the personal things on your list are red herrings, I never said Fred a bad teammate or selfish. He's a great leader. Awesome defender. But tonight a classic example happened. Gary had the ball in the middle of the break, hits Fred on the left wing with the simple bounce pass for a layup. Very next possession another steal to fast break, this time Fred has ball in middle with a teammate on his left. Does he make the same easy pass Gary just gave him? No he drives into a bigger guy, fortunately draws a foul and makes 2. Yes it's still 2 points but he could've been blocked too. No need to make difficult plays when easy ones are right there to make.

But he still played a fine game, shot well, scored 30. All that can be true and still his play can be critiqued for other things.

See, this is the BS y'all come up with that is annoying. The play you're talking about (which was off of a miss, not a steal) was a great play by FVV. Kuzma was in an awful position and back pedaling a bit while FVV had a full head of steam. I swear some people just look for anything that COULD have been a bad play by FVV and use it as proof to keep up the narrative that FVV is a ball-hog and/or takes bad shots.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using RealGM mobile app

Fred closed the game out exactly like one should. Protect the ball, run the clock. Casual fans were saying "he's dribbling too much...he's not moving the ball".

Nobody who knows basketball would say that.

Well I watch every game, and I've been watching the NBA since 1970, so I don't feel too much like a casual.

I watched that game. I saw us take a nice lead by a free flowing offence. Fred was playing great, and shooting well. But in the last few minutes we tightened up the offence, he'd dribble the clock down and then run screen/roll with OG. I was wincing as the spread dropped below 10, got to six I think. Wizards including Beal missed some shots or it could have got closer. But things went our way.

It's like a football team that built a lead by passing, then tries to run out the clock on the ground. Or a hockey team with a lead then going into a shell. It doesn't always work out. Tonight it did for us.

[mdenny]

See, this is the BS y'all come up with that is annoying. The play you're talking about (which was off of a miss, not a steal) was a great play by FVV. Kuzma was in an awful position and back pedaling a bit while FVV had a full head of steam. I swear some people just look for anything that COULD have been a bad play by FVV and use it as proof to keep up the narrative that FVV is a ball-hog and/or takes bad shots.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using RealGM mobile app

Fred closed the game out exactly like one should. Protect the ball, run the clock. Casual fans were saying "he's dribbling too much...he's not moving the ball".

Nobody who knows basketball would say that.

Well I watch every game, and I've been watching the NBA since 1970, so I don't feel too much like a casual.

I watched that game. I saw us take a nice lead by a free flowing offence. Fred was playing great, and shooting well. But in the last few minutes we tightened up the offence, he'd dribble the clock down and then run screen/roll with OG. I was wincing as the spread dropped below 10, got to six I think. Wizards including Beal missed some shots or it could have got closer. But things went our way.

It's like a football team that built a lead by passing, then tries to run out the clock on the ground. Or a hockey team with a lead then going into a shell. It doesn't always work out. Tonight it did for us.

You haven't noticed that when a team is leading by 10 points with 2 to 3 minutes left they start dribbling down the shotclock on each possession?

[WaltFrazier]

Fred closed the game out exactly like one should. Protect the ball, run the clock. Casual fans were saying "he's dribbling too much...he's not moving the ball".

Nobody who knows basketball would say that.

Well I watch every game, and I've been watching the NBA since 1970, so I don't feel too much like a casual.

I watched that game. I saw us take a nice lead by a free flowing offence. Fred was playing great, and shooting well. But in the last few minutes we tightened up the offence, he'd dribble the clock down and then run screen/roll with OG. I was wincing as the spread dropped below 10, got to six I think. Wizards including Beal missed some shots or it could have got closer. But things went our way.

It's like a football team that built a lead by passing, then tries to run out the clock on the ground. Or a hockey team with a lead then going into a shell. It doesn't always work out. Tonight it did for us.

You haven't noticed that when a team is leading by 10 points with 2 to 3 minutes left they start dribbling down the shotclock on each possession?

It can be done by passing and cutting too. having a small guard dribble down to under 5 on the shot clock is not always good when he has trouble getting the shot away against good D. It's not like we have a Kobe or a Durant or a Trae young who can dribble it down and then still get a good shot.

[Gold Dragon]

Clock management and minimizing turnovers when you have the lead is a pretty basic concept.

[RoyceDa59]

FVV becomes perfect once Siakam/Barnes are back and the offence is initiated from the wings.

[mdenny]

Well I watch every game, and I've been watching the NBA since 1970, so I don't feel too much like a casual.

I watched that game. I saw us take a nice lead by a free flowing offence. Fred was playing great, and shooting well. But in the last few minutes we tightened up the offence, he'd dribble the clock down and then run screen/roll with OG. I was wincing as the spread dropped below 10, got to six I think. Wizards including Beal missed some shots or it could have got closer. But things went our way.

It's like a football team that built a lead by passing, then tries to run out the clock on the ground. Or a hockey team with a lead then going into a shell. It doesn't always work out. Tonight it did for us.

You haven't noticed that when a team is leading by 10 points with 2 to 3 minutes left they start dribbling down the shotclock on each possession?

It can be done by passing and cutting too. having a small guard dribble down to under 5 on the shot clock is not always good when he has trouble getting the shot away against good D. It's not like we have a Kobe or a Durant or a Trae young who can dribble it down and then still get a good shot.

Wrll theb you disagree with the coaching staff and the team's startegy. Not fred. Fact is....it was not a "mistake" that he was dribbling down the shotclock and Nurse and Nate were not telling him to move the ball during those possessions.

It's bizarre that the fred-haters went from trashing him incessantly to this measured back-pedalling version of "nuanced" complaining that he's dribbling down the shotclock while in the lead in the final minutes of a game. Which we won.

It's beyond parody. Same thing happened last year. The posts are still up. Wrong about fred again. And hilariously....your new backpedalling take is also wrong. "When i said that Fred is trash, we should trade him, and he didnt know how to play his position i wasn't WRONG per se....it's just he is different now".

No....it's that you had no idea what you WERE talking about and u still don't.

I won't interact with fred-haters anymore and derail anymore threads. I'm done with this. I'm not defending him anymore.

[vini_vidi_vici]

Clock management and minimizing turnovers when you have the lead is a pretty basic concept.

Its amazing this is a basketball forum sometimes.

[Kingsway_fan]

Fred playing at prime Lowry level now...

[God Squad]

His three pointer off picks/screens is a beauty to watch.

[Gold Dragon]

As Jack was saying all game, Fred's midrange 2s at the elbows are just money right now it forced the Wizards to double him leading to the sequence where Birch was brought in as an outlet pass out of the double and the Raps just torched them on 3 consecutive plays.

Counters upon counters. Fred's ability to see the floor and make the right reads is growing leaps and bounds. Reminds us of another player who kept improving every year even until late in his career at those same areas.

[johanliebert]

If you're still trying to nit pick FVV through the first 9 games of the season to fit your asshat agenda---- you're an idiot.

Move on.

Exactly it’s getting old.