Why isn't Robert Horry in the HoF?

[rand]

The short answer could be "Horry simply isn't good enough" and given the resumes of the average inductee that's obviously correct since he was never even an all-star and almost every player in the hall is a multiple time all-star, but that begs the question: can a player make the hall if they're not an all-star caliber talent?

K.C. Jones' induction would be the best precedent for Horry. Jones was never an all-star but made the hall due to his contributions on squads that won eight NBA titles. Jim Loscutoff who won seven titles with the Celtics isn't in the HoF so Horry merely being a member of these title winning teams isn't good enough to merit real consideration, his contributions to those title teams would have to be as strong as Jones' (who also won 2 NCAA titles and a Gold Medal).

I wasn't even alive when K.C. Jones played so I wouldn't try to characterize Jones' contributions qualitatively. Comparing their stats relative to their eras, Horry seems like the marginally better player in his era but I wouldn't pursue that argument far at all except to say if a player of Jones' caliber can be inducted, Horry isn't disqualified on the basis that he's simply not good enough. Because I saw Horry's career I can say his contributions went far beyond his box score stats or his excellent impact stats (#53 in RAPM for all players between 1997-2014, awesome playoff On/Off). If your memory is fuzzy take a look at this and remember just how many game winning plays Horry made in the playoffs for title teams:

https://uproxx.com/dimemag/robert-horrys-top-10-clutch-plays/

If an elite roleplayer who won 7 titles and was a legendary clutch player can't make the HoF, can any career roleplayer ever make the HoF again? What does it say about the value of winning when a guy who won on this scale and was unquestionably vital to multiple title runs can't get in? Carmelo Anthony would be a HoF lock even without his three Gold Medals but whose NBA career was really more admirable, a player who had all the talent in the world and stuffed the box score but had little team success or a guy who never put up numbers but made a deep playoff run every season (literally, as Horry made it to the second round or later in every one of his 16 seasons).

It's not a secret that winning titles can be the difference for making the HoF as a multiple time all-star. James Worthy was a good player but he wasn't making the HoF if he's not on those Showtime teams. Draymond Green and Klay Thompson are going to make it because of how much they won. If these guys had spent their entire career in Damian Lillard's shoes and came away with no titles, none of them would be making the HoF. Winning titles made their HoF resumes and I think this is fundamentally correct. Championships are prized because players (and fans) desperately want them. Being a key contributor to as many title teams as Horry was should be enough to overcome modest statistical production and the lack of accolades that accompanies that statistical poverty.

[Egg Nog]

Horry simply isn't good enough

[ellobo]

A career 24.5 minute player who averaged 7.0 points per game on .520 TS% (league average during his career was .530)?

Umm....no.

KC Jones doesn't belong in the hall of fame, even considering his 2 NCAA championships and Olympic Gold. He was a 26 minute per game NBA player who averaged 7.4 ppg/4.3 apg on .435 TS% (league average .480). So "but KC Jones is a hall-of-famer" doesn't strike me as a convincing argument.

If Robert Horry belongs in the hall of fame, so does Mario Elie.

[Pythagoras]

The short answer could be "Horry simply isn't good enough" and given the resumes of the average inductee that's obviously correct since he was never even an all-star and almost every player in the hall is a multiple time all-star, but that begs the question: can a player make the hall if they're not an all-star caliber talent?

K.C. Jones' induction would be the best precedent for Horry. Jones was never an all-star but made the hall due to his contributions on squads that won eight NBA titles. Jim Loscutoff who won seven titles with the Celtics isn't in the HoF so Horry merely being a member of these title winning teams isn't good enough to merit real consideration, his contributions to those title teams would have to be as strong as Jones' (who also won 2 NCAA titles and a Gold Medal).

I wasn't even alive when K.C. Jones played so I wouldn't try to characterize Jones' contributions qualitatively. Comparing their stats relative to their eras, Horry seems like the marginally better player in his era but I wouldn't pursue that argument far at all except to say if a player of Jones' caliber can be inducted, Horry isn't disqualified on the basis that he's simply not good enough. Because I saw Horry's career I can say his contributions went far beyond his box score stats or his excellent impact stats (#53 in RAPM for all players between 1994-2014, awesome playoff On/Off). If your memory is fuzzy take a look at this and remember just how many game winning plays Horry made in the playoffs for title teams:

https://uproxx.com/dimemag/robert-horrys-top-10-clutch-plays/

If an elite roleplayer who won 7 titles and was a legendary clutch player can't make the HoF, can any career roleplayer ever make the HoF again? What does it say about the value of winning when a guy who won on this scale and was unquestionably vital to multiple title runs can't get in? Carmelo Anthony would be a HoF lock even without his three Gold Medals but whose NBA career was really more admirable, a player who had all the talent in the world and stuffed the box score but had little team success or a guy who never put up numbers but made a deep playoff run every season (literally, as Horry made it to the second round or later in every one of his 16 seasons).

It's not a secret that winning titles can be the difference for making the HoF as a multiple time all-star. James Worthy was a good player but he wasn't making the HoF if he's not on those Showtime teams. Draymond Green and Klay Thompson are going to make it in because of how much they won. If these guys had spent their entire career in Damian Lillard's shoes and came away with no titles, none of them would be making the HoF. Winning titles made their HoF resumes and I think this is fundamentally correct. Championships are prized because players (and fans) desperately want them. Being a key contributor to as many title teams as Horry was should be enough to overcome modest statistical production and the lack of accolades that accompanies that statistical poverty.

KC Jones being in the HOF is terrible. Don’t compound the problem by also putting a guy like Horry in. And I say this as a Lakers fan for nearly 3 decades who loves Horry for his role on those early 2000 championship teams.

Now if you’ll excuse me I’ll be going to rewatch Horry’s dagger against the Kings as time expires!

[God Squad]

Hell nah. If you let him in then that opens the flood gates for every role player.

[jehosafats]

He broke it. Finished his career with 7 rings, averaged not quite 8 ppg, having hit some of the most iconic shots in playoff history. You almost had to be there to call him a hall of famer.

[beantownski]

KC Jones won 8 rings as a player, 2 rings in college, and 2 rings as a coach. Horry's resume doesn't touch KC Jones, and many feel he doesn't belong in the HOF.

[pacers33]

I really wouldn't be upset if he got in the HOF at all. It just sets a weird precident for guys like Kerr or Fisher to get in too, but Horry deserves to be an outlier. Kind of an icon for basketball in the 2000s...if you were there, people who wouldn't know Robert Horry knew who he was, it's hard to quantify.

[dautjazz]

Horry was a role player who happened to be in the right place at the right time a lot. Obviously he was clutch, but not much else really.

[draftnightsuit]

Hell nah. If you let him in then that opens the flood gates for every role player.

Horry has 7 rings and countless iconic clutch shots. Letting him into the Hall doesn’t open the flood gates to every role player. It opens the flood gates to every role player with 7 rings and countless iconic clutch shots.

[dj20001]

Hell nah. If you let him in then that opens the flood gates for every role player.

Horry has 7 rings and countless iconic clutch shots. Letting him into the Hall doesn’t open the flood gates to every role player. It opens the flood gates to every role player with 7 rings and countless iconic clutch shots.

Wouldn't go as far as to say "countless", that's more Steph Curry territory.

Horry was a serviceable to good player individually. Made some winning plays on good teams.

[Jables]

I really wouldn't be upset if he got in the HOF at all. It just sets a weird precident for guys like Kerr or Fisher to get in too, but Horry deserves to be an outlier. Kind of an icon for basketball in the 2000s...if you were there, people who wouldn't know Robert Horry knew who he was, it's hard to quantify.

I remember like 5 of his rings, I don't really remember him being an icon, cult figure with Lakers fans is more apt.

Anyway if he gets in I guess Jim Loscutoff should make it too, Derek Fisher, I know the HoF isn't that important at the end of the day but it's pretty bad to put in role players just because they have rings, there's already a problem with superstars ring chasing mao, now you're gonna have the Joe Harris types of the world ring chasing their entire careers? **** that.

[dhsilv2]

I really wouldn't be upset if he got in the HOF at all. It just sets a weird precident for guys like Kerr or Fisher to get in too, but Horry deserves to be an outlier. Kind of an icon for basketball in the 2000s...if you were there, people who wouldn't know Robert Horry knew who he was, it's hard to quantify.

Funny given his best years and most important title runs were mid 90's

[pacers33]

I really wouldn't be upset if he got in the HOF at all. It just sets a weird precident for guys like Kerr or Fisher to get in too, but Horry deserves to be an outlier. Kind of an icon for basketball in the 2000s...if you were there, people who wouldn't know Robert Horry knew who he was, it's hard to quantify.

Funny given his best years and most important title runs were mid 90's

I can only speak for my own experiences, clutch shots were called an Horry where I grew up in the 2000s. Was a kid in the 90s. Born 1991.

[snaquille oatmeal]

GINOBILI!!!!

[dhsilv2]

Horry was a role player who happened to be in the right place at the right time a lot. Obviously he was clutch, but not much else really.

Should be noted his career playoff BPM was 3.7 which is actually pretty darn star level. He's 22nd all time in playoff VORP, a metric that just playing a lot of games and being ok won't move the needle on. He was a high impact starter in the playoffs and his game improved noticeably in the playoffs consistently over his career, something that is very rare.

I still wouldn't put him in the hall, but he was a LOT more than just Clutch.

[Danny1616]

He's a career role player who happened to play for some great teams (Lakers and Spurs), won a bunch of rings, and hit a few big playoff shots.

Same reason why Derek Fisher and Steve Kerr won't make the HOF.

[Harry Garris]

I personally do not think that non-superstars should be in the Hall of Fame.

But there are already tons of examples of guys that got into the Hall of Fame that were well below that level. The precedent has been set that guys like Robert Horry should make it if we want to continue the same HoF criteria that has been used in the past.

[dhsilv2]

I really wouldn't be upset if he got in the HOF at all. It just sets a weird precident for guys like Kerr or Fisher to get in too, but Horry deserves to be an outlier. Kind of an icon for basketball in the 2000s...if you were there, people who wouldn't know Robert Horry knew who he was, it's hard to quantify.

I remember like 5 of his rings, I don't really remember him being an icon, cult figure with Lakers fans is more apt.

Anyway if he gets in I guess Jim Loscutoff should make it too, Derek Fisher, I know the HoF isn't that important at the end of the day but it's pretty bad to put in role players just because they have rings, there's already a problem with superstars ring chasing mao, now you're gonna have the Joe Harris types of the world ring chasing their entire careers? **** that.

Horry at worst was a B+ defender through most of his prime. He was hyper switchable, long, could challenge shots at the rim or on the outside while being a quality rebounder. He's nothing like a Joe Harris type.

[dhsilv2]

I personally do not think that non-superstars should be in the Hall of Fame.

But there are already tons of examples of guys that got into the Hall of Fame that were well below that level. The precedent has been set that guys like Robert Horry should make it if we want to continue the same HoF criteria that has been used in the past.

Who are your comps for him out of curiosity? I do think his playoff stats are getting close to some guys, but his regular season ones seem pretty lacking when I look for a good comp.