The Tomjas Thread

[Rastas]

They both take a jump.

Personally both aren’t secondary options but a Murray/Curry backcourt has a nice ring to it. Also

Here’s one:

They both get equal usage (25++% let’s say for argument) which one is the more impactful player?

Look admittedly I’m not the biggest fan of either but there is a comp for Murray and that’s Holiday.

Fwiw if we do get Fox just know he comes with his own distinct flaws that’s all.

Murray/Curry is homeless Blazers and same applies to Fox

Only interest is picks and the elephant in the room is that Simmons makes those teams much better so picks lose value

Morey & Embiid know this

I've seen Curry on a poster beside Embiid for primetime game promos now, and before that it was Tobias of course

I really don't know what the point is of trying to find the perfect trade. Outside of you know who (and that other more recent all star guy), Ben sells more tickets than any and all other names mentioned in all 7 threads of this, INCLUDING FOX.

When Morey says he wants A STAR PLAYER, are we supposed to say "yeah but what about Murray or.....?"

That's the "elephant in the room", a star player is the only way outta this crap.

Then Morey needs to get on the phone with the Nets for Kyrie.
Pretty sure he can Sell Tickets.

But then Big Brain Morey say's nope , that's making Net's too good.
Problem with that thinking is Ben is going to make whatever team he lands on better.

So I'm guessing No Trade unless magically a Super Star begs for a Trade to Philly.

[Mik317]

Murray and Curry (bars) is not a Blazers backcourt wtf?

Murray was all NBA defense a few years back for one. If anything he is exactly the type of guard you want next to a Curry.

I don't trust the shot either but come on now.

[mjkvol]

I learn more about the rest of the NBA here than from any hack media site - you guys are great. I barely watch the NBA outside of the Sixers (much more of a college hoops fan), so I saw more of guys like Fox and Murray in college than the NBA.

Here's my question - Fox or Murray (assuming a 1 for 1 trade), doesn't either one make us a better team given that it is highly unlikely Simmons will return? I get having a preference, but both are very good players with different skill sets that can help the Sixers, right?

To me, if either one can be had for Simmons, the next order of business has to be to move Harris - in a perfect world that would be the first order of business - but if he can be turned into a stretch big in addition to Murray or Fox and still having all our picks, wouldn't that be a pretty good position moving forward?

[Kobblehead]

Derrick White, DeJounte Murray, Devin Vassell

for

Ben Simmons, Matisse Thybulle

[kuclas]

Can the sixers take a permanent medical injury salary cap relief like the Miami heat did for Chris bosh when he had his blood clots.

Can rule Simmons medically ineligible to play. Simmons still will get paid the rest of his contract. Sixers get salary cap relief due to Permanently disable player (mental illness also counts as disability).

Simmons just won’t be eligible to ever play again in nba.

[mithrandir17]

Can the sixers take a permanent medical injury salary cap relief like the Miami heat did for Chris bosh when he had his blood clots.

Can rule Simmons medically ineligible to play. Simmons still will get paid the rest of his contract. Sixers get salary cap relief due to Permanently disable player (mental illness also counts as disability).

Simmons just won’t be eligible to ever play again in nba.

That route doesn't help the sixers at all in achieving their goal of a championship. Even if you take off Simmons salary, we won't have enough cap space to sign anyone to replace him unless you also trade Harris for a salary relief.

Simmons won't agree to never play in the NBA again. He just don't want to play for the sixers, not the entire NBA.

To get an insurance company to pay for the rest of his salary, they also have to verify if his mental condition is legit, which I don't think Simmons wants to be verified as he will be forever remembered as the player who had to quit the NBA because of a mental illness. His endorsement deals will also be nullified if he is not playing in the NBA anymore.

[kuclas]

Can the sixers take a permanent medical injury salary cap relief like the Miami heat did for Chris bosh when he had his blood clots.

Can rule Simmons medically ineligible to play. Simmons still will get paid the rest of his contract. Sixers get salary cap relief due to Permanently disable player (mental illness also counts as disability).

Simmons just won’t be eligible to ever play again in nba.

That route doesn't help the sixers at all in achieving their goal of a championship. Even if you take off Simmons salary, we won't have enough cap space to sign anyone to replace him unless you also trade Harris for a salary relief.

Simmons won't agree to never play in the NBA again. He just don't want to play for the sixers, not the entire NBA.

To get an insurance company to pay for the rest of his salary, they also have to verify if his mental condition is legit, which I don't think Simmons wants to be verified as he will be forever remembered as the player who had to quit the NBA because of a mental illness. His endorsement deals will also be nullified if he is not playing in the NBA anymore.

Yes. It’s a game of chicken. I don’t believe Simmons condition. He just wants to get paid. He didn’t expect money to be withheld. Used excuses.

If it were really bothering him. He doesn’t need to disclose it. All he has to say it’s a health related problem BEFORE he was forced to show up at sixers facilities due to increasing money lost due to fines.

At this point most sixers fans don’t care about Simmons.

The players being offers for Simmons won’t improve the sixers. So why not just make an example of Simmons. Play the game of chicken. Simmons will still get his money. He is not being punished.

But sixers play hardball.

Does it matter if sixers go out in first or second round with the trades being offered?

But it’s more important to see if Simmons camp blinks and proves he’s faking it. I hope he proves most of us who are skeptical wrong. I really do.

[GutUNC]

The thing I don't understand about Fox is that as a college player his defense was outstanding and one of his greatest strengths. Now obviously the NBA has a different caliber of athlete so that skill won't necessarily carry over exactly but I still can't wrap my mind around how he could go from 1 extreme to the other.

[kuclas]

The thing I don't understand about Fox is that as a college player his defense was outstanding and one of his greatest strengths. Now obviously the NBA has a different caliber of athlete so that skill won't necessarily carry over exactly but I still can't wrap my mind around how he could go from 1 extreme to the other.

Defense is 90% effort. Obviously guys physical limitations can hurt them on the nba. But most defense is about technique and effort. While it helps to be “long arms” like k Leonard or thybulle. A guy like Ricky Rubio has improved on defense despite his physical quickness due to studying game tape and effort.

Sacramento just has a bunch of guys who focus on offense and neglect to play defense. So fox has learned bad habits.

[GutUNC]

The thing I don't understand about Fox is that as a college player his defense was outstanding and one of his greatest strengths. Now obviously the NBA has a different caliber of athlete so that skill won't necessarily carry over exactly but I still can't wrap my mind around how he could go from 1 extreme to the other.

Defense is 90% effort. Obviously guys physical limitations can hurt them on the nba. But most defense is about technique and effort. While it helps to be “long arms” like k Leonard or thybulle. A guy like Ricky Rubio has improved on defense despite his physical quickness due to studying game tape and effort.

Sacramento just has a bunch of guys who focus on offense and neglect to play defense. So fox has learned bad habits.

That was my first thought and 1 reason why I hate the idea of a Simmons/Fox trade less then I did before, but that's a helluva gamble.

[Negrodamus]

The thing I don't understand about Fox is that as a college player his defense was outstanding and one of his greatest strengths. Now obviously the NBA has a different caliber of athlete so that skill won't necessarily carry over exactly but I still can't wrap my mind around how he could go from 1 extreme to the other.

Because he's been the number 1 scoring option on a trash team that needs his creation (pts & asts). It's hard to go to the other end of the court and lock in on the hardest position to defend and do it well for 30+ minutes a night. I think if he joined a team that puts an emphasis on defense and removed the responsibility of being a 25+ ppg scorer, he'd come back to form.

[Negrodamus]

BTW, this guy still has it, but it's becoming Haliburton's team:

Watch on YouTube

His penetration into the paint will make life so much easier for Embiid/Drummond. Love Maxey, but Fox is arguably the fastest guy with the ball in his hands in the NBA.

[kuclas]

The thing I don't understand about Fox is that as a college player his defense was outstanding and one of his greatest strengths. Now obviously the NBA has a different caliber of athlete so that skill won't necessarily carry over exactly but I still can't wrap my mind around how he could go from 1 extreme to the other.

Defense is 90% effort. Obviously guys physical limitations can hurt them on the nba. But most defense is about technique and effort. While it helps to be “long arms” like k Leonard or thybulle. A guy like Ricky Rubio has improved on defense despite his physical quickness due to studying game tape and effort.

Sacramento just has a bunch of guys who focus on offense and neglect to play defense. So fox has learned bad habits.

That was my first thought and 1 reason why I hate the idea of a Simmons/Fox trade less then I did before, but that's a helluva gamble.

Simmons can put up 25/8/8 on Sacramento pretty easily. Fox gets tons of transition points. Which makes up for his poor shooting. Fox obviously is much more dangerous in half court than Simmons. Which is something the sixers do need in the last.

So we need to find a middle ground trying to replace Simmons defense/point guard duties and replace his 15/16 points.

Getting junk role players back like
Minnesota offer or barnes/hield doesn’t help.

[Sixerscan]

The thing I don't understand about Fox is that as a college player his defense was outstanding and one of his greatest strengths. Now obviously the NBA has a different caliber of athlete so that skill won't necessarily carry over exactly but I still can't wrap my mind around how he could go from 1 extreme to the other.

Because he's been the number 1 scoring option on a trash team that needs his creation (pts & asts). It's hard to go to the other end of the court and lock in on the hardest position to defend and do it well for 30+ minutes a night. I think if he joined a team that puts an emphasis on defense and removed the responsibility of being a 25+ ppg scorer, he'd come back to form.

Yeah I think you can look at Tobias and Curry who were previously bad defensive players on bad defensive teams and are now... well not good but just about as good as their physical attributes will allow them to be, and think a similar thing could happen with Fox, who actually has good attributes for his position.

[Negrodamus]

Defense is 90% effort. Obviously guys physical limitations can hurt them on the nba. But most defense is about technique and effort. While it helps to be “long arms” like k Leonard or thybulle. A guy like Ricky Rubio has improved on defense despite his physical quickness due to studying game tape and effort.

Sacramento just has a bunch of guys who focus on offense and neglect to play defense. So fox has learned bad habits.

That was my first thought and 1 reason why I hate the idea of a Simmons/Fox trade less then I did before, but that's a helluva gamble.

Simmons can put up 25/8/8 on Sacramento pretty easily. Fox gets tons of transition points. Which makes up for his poor shooting. Fox obviously is much more dangerous in half court than Simmons. Which is something the sixers do need in the last.

So we need to find a middle ground trying to replace Simmons defense/point guard duties and replace his 15/16 points.

Getting junk role players back like
Minnesota offer or barnes/hield doesn’t help.

I'd be completely and utterly shocked if Ben Simmons averages 25ppg at any point in his career.

[Negrodamus]

Well, at least we know the T'Wolves will still pay out the nose for Ben, lol. Kinda funny they quit coming around here to peddle Beasley, McDaniels, and protected picks in the past month.

Spoiler:

[kuclas]

That was my first thought and 1 reason why I hate the idea of a Simmons/Fox trade less then I did before, but that's a helluva gamble.

Simmons can put up 25/8/8 on Sacramento pretty easily. Fox gets tons of transition points. Which makes up for his poor shooting. Fox obviously is much more dangerous in half court than Simmons. Which is something the sixers do need in the last.

So we need to find a middle ground trying to replace Simmons defense/point guard duties and replace his 15/16 points.

Getting junk role players back like
Minnesota offer or barnes/hield doesn’t help.

I'd be completely and utterly shocked if Ben Simmons averages 25ppg at any point in his career.

He takes 11 shots a game.

If he wants to increase his shots to 19/20 like fox. He can average 25 a game. It’s pretty simple math. Especially regular season games where teams don’t sag off Simmons like they do in the post season. He has a lot more room to roam and score.

[Stanford]

Ben for KAT

[Negrodamus]

Simmons can put up 25/8/8 on Sacramento pretty easily. Fox gets tons of transition points. Which makes up for his poor shooting. Fox obviously is much more dangerous in half court than Simmons. Which is something the sixers do need in the last.

So we need to find a middle ground trying to replace Simmons defense/point guard duties and replace his 15/16 points.

Getting junk role players back like
Minnesota offer or barnes/hield doesn’t help.

I'd be completely and utterly shocked if Ben Simmons averages 25ppg at any point in his career.

He takes 11 shots a game.

If he wants to increase his shots to 19/20 like fox. He can average 25 a game. It’s pretty simple math. Especially regular season games where teams don’t sag off Simmons like they do in the post season. He has a lot more room to roam and score.

If you do an ounce of game planning for him as the main scoring option, he's easily neutralized. he'd need 19 transition shots a game for that to be feasible. He's like the 5th scoring option in half court offense. I understand the math, but there's also nuance behind scoring in the NBA. He's not shooting 55+% FG per game if he's the number one option.

[the_process]

Derrick White, DeJounte Murray, Devin Vassell

for

Ben Simmons, Matisse Thybulle

I don't think SA moves both Murray and White. One of them, sure. Frankly, I'd rather have a couple of future unprotected picks from them anyway and let them keep a guard. But agreed Vassell certainly needs to be in the deal.