ImageImageImageImageImage

PG - Higher Ambitions, 5 in a row for the Raps!!!

Moderators: DG88, niQ, Duffman100, tsherkin, Reeko, lebron stopper, HiJiNX, Morris_Shatford, 7 Footer

User avatar
bluerap23
Head Coach
Posts: 7,161
And1: 7,297
Joined: Aug 15, 2012
   

Re: PG - Higher Ambitions, 5 in a row for the Raps!!! 

Post#281 » by bluerap23 » Thu Nov 4, 2021 2:39 pm

Zutroy wrote:Beal for Siakam tomorrow.. who says no?


Me.

I'd offer GTJ, Boucher, Banton and 2 1sts. Even that is a gamble. Beal is only signed to the end of this season.
Image
Beerpapi
Sophomore
Posts: 122
And1: 99
Joined: Feb 18, 2020

Re: PG - Higher Ambitions, 5 in a row for the Raps!!! 

Post#282 » by Beerpapi » Thu Nov 4, 2021 2:41 pm

Scott Hall wrote:
Read on Twitter


Forget the dunk for a second and lets concentrate on that crossover and how he put it on the deck and
created that just wait till the coaching staff births him a jumper yet another future weapon of mass destruction


Fred created that. With a helping of Harrells disrespect for Precious.
From the day you pick up a ball your taught see ball and man. It’s typically a given when your defending the man with the ball.

Harrell was disrespecting Precious so much that he ignored him and was busy getting ready to help on Fred as he came off the curl,eventhough his man (Precious) had the ball!!
I’m glad Precious responded to the disrespect with a highlight.
User avatar
bluerap23
Head Coach
Posts: 7,161
And1: 7,297
Joined: Aug 15, 2012
   

Re: PG - Higher Ambitions, 5 in a row for the Raps!!! 

Post#283 » by bluerap23 » Thu Nov 4, 2021 2:45 pm

Backcountry wrote:It's probably already been said on here, and I know it's 5 in a row, but I'm not getting too excited until we beat an actual contender. We've beaten 3 "imaginary" good teams (Knicks, Wizards, Celtics), but haven't played BKN, 76ers, the Lowry Heat, or Atlanta yet. Pacers are getting better with the return of LeVert, and Carlisle will have them improving as he exerts his coaching (and TJ Warren almost back from injury.)

So, while I'm enjoying the hard work and "upset" wins during this streak, I'm trying to keep it in perspective. Need to get Scottie back. Siakam and Yuta healthy and fully integrated again to see what we really have. Need to do something with Dragic and get some return rather than just release him. Need to get Precious offensively in tune (I think everyone is too hard on him. His defence last night was very good, and obviously someone had a talk with him at halftime because his huge putdown was totally opposite of what he was doing in the first half).

Tomorrow night, welcome Cleveland! Want to see Mobley play and see how we handle a 7-foot, mobile centre who can shoot, pass, block etc. Not to mention having Allen on the floor potentially at the same time.

Edit: Forgot to mention that we haven't played the Bucks yet either.


I don't expect us to beat the Heat, bucks or nets. I am enjoying being a better than 500 playoff team on the rise. We are in the caterpillar stage.
Image
User avatar
Son Goku 25
RealGM
Posts: 26,045
And1: 41,155
Joined: Jan 18, 2010
 

Re: PG - Higher Ambitions, 5 in a row for the Raps!!! 

Post#284 » by Son Goku 25 » Thu Nov 4, 2021 2:54 pm

bluerap23 wrote:
Backcountry wrote:It's probably already been said on here, and I know it's 5 in a row, but I'm not getting too excited until we beat an actual contender. We've beaten 3 "imaginary" good teams (Knicks, Wizards, Celtics), but haven't played BKN, 76ers, the Lowry Heat, or Atlanta yet. Pacers are getting better with the return of LeVert, and Carlisle will have them improving as he exerts his coaching (and TJ Warren almost back from injury.)

So, while I'm enjoying the hard work and "upset" wins during this streak, I'm trying to keep it in perspective. Need to get Scottie back. Siakam and Yuta healthy and fully integrated again to see what we really have. Need to do something with Dragic and get some return rather than just release him. Need to get Precious offensively in tune (I think everyone is too hard on him. His defence last night was very good, and obviously someone had a talk with him at halftime because his huge putdown was totally opposite of what he was doing in the first half).

Tomorrow night, welcome Cleveland! Want to see Mobley play and see how we handle a 7-foot, mobile centre who can shoot, pass, block etc. Not to mention having Allen on the floor potentially at the same time.

Edit: Forgot to mention that we haven't played the Bucks yet either.


I don't expect us to beat the Heat, bucks or nets. I am enjoying being a better than 500 playoff team on the rise. We are in the caterpillar stage.


Yeah, I'd say it's impressive if the list of teams is that small in terms of one's we know we'll likely get bounced against.
Lukeem
Analyst
Posts: 3,280
And1: 2,578
Joined: Aug 02, 2012

Re: PG - Higher Ambitions, 5 in a row for the Raps!!! 

Post#285 » by Lukeem » Thu Nov 4, 2021 3:01 pm

Going for the all time pettiness move, Ujiri and Nurse get together and decide to bench Dragic and make him waste away on a bench that out preforms the "higher ambitions" team he wanted to play for

Then sit down with Dragic and calmly explain "Bitch there is no higher ambition than playing for this organization"
Image
GLF
Senior
Posts: 717
And1: 1,030
Joined: Sep 03, 2018
 

Re: PG - Higher Ambitions, 5 in a row for the Raps!!! 

Post#286 » by GLF » Thu Nov 4, 2021 3:02 pm

Backcountry wrote:It's probably already been said on here, and I know it's 5 in a row, but I'm not getting too excited until we beat an actual contender. We've beaten 3 "imaginary" good teams (Knicks, Wizards, Celtics), but haven't played BKN, 76ers, the Lowry Heat, or Atlanta yet. Pacers are getting better with the return of LeVert, and Carlisle will have them improving as he exerts his coaching (and TJ Warren almost back from injury.)

So, while I'm enjoying the hard work and "upset" wins during this streak, I'm trying to keep it in perspective. Need to get Scottie back. Siakam and Yuta healthy and fully integrated again to see what we really have. Need to do something with Dragic and get some return rather than just release him. Need to get Precious offensively in tune (I think everyone is too hard on him. His defence last night was very good, and obviously someone had a talk with him at halftime because his huge putdown was totally opposite of what he was doing in the first half).

Tomorrow night, welcome Cleveland! Want to see Mobley play and see how we handle a 7-foot, mobile centre who can shoot, pass, block etc. Not to mention having Allen on the floor potentially at the same time.

Edit: Forgot to mention that we haven't played the Bucks yet either.



I hate when people talk about this beating a contender thing. To make the playoffs you need to be the teams that are worse than you and teams on your level. Beating contenders is great and I would love that but beating teams like Washington and New York consistently is way more important. **** teams beat contenders all the time, they're still **** lol. And you wanna know why? Because they beat a contender and then go and lose 3 in a row to lesser teams. Also we aren't a contending team yet, we are building to that and we've all agreed on that, so not being able to beat contenders wouldn't bother me. All those teams you named are better than us and should be us. No big deal.
Dennis 37
RealGM
Posts: 15,739
And1: 18,467
Joined: Feb 24, 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
 

Re: PG - Higher Ambitions, 5 in a row for the Raps!!! 

Post#287 » by Dennis 37 » Thu Nov 4, 2021 3:02 pm

Tha Cynic wrote:
Zutroy wrote:Beal for Siakam tomorrow.. who says no?


Beal is one of the most overrated players in the NBA imo. If we're trading Siakam, we need to look for more.


Beal is 6'3 and has a PER of 18.3
Pascal is 6'9 and has a Career PER of 16.9

Pascal has been mega inconsistent in his career, starting out with horrendous shooting ability, and then going through the pandemic funk. I think Pascal, with all the support around him, will be the best Pascal, not the one in the funk. He showed funk recovery before his injury last year.

There just isn't enough difference for me to give up 6 inches in height.
Maxpainmedia:
"NYC has the **** most Two Faced fans, but we ALL loved IQ,, and that is super rare, I've been a Knicks fan for 37 years, this kid is a star and he will snap in Toronto"
yyzsportsjunky
Ballboy
Posts: 28
And1: 18
Joined: Jul 16, 2021

Re: PG - Higher Ambitions, 5 in a row for the Raps!!! 

Post#288 » by yyzsportsjunky » Thu Nov 4, 2021 3:06 pm

If we’re trading pascal, rather do it for someone like KAT..

KAT
Barnes
OG
GTJ
FVV

:o
johanliebert
RealGM
Posts: 10,516
And1: 6,017
Joined: Jun 16, 2015
 

Re: PG - Higher Ambitions, 5 in a row for the Raps!!! 

Post#289 » by johanliebert » Thu Nov 4, 2021 3:06 pm

Lukeem wrote:Going for the all time pettiness move, Ujiri and Nurse get together and decide to bench Dragic and make him waste away on a bench that out preforms the "higher ambitions" team he wanted to play for

Then sit down with Dragic and calmly explain "Bitch there is no higher ambition than playing for this organization"

That’s not how you conduct business in the NBA as agents remember.
User avatar
Tha Cynic
RealGM
Posts: 26,690
And1: 28,612
Joined: Jan 03, 2006
Location: Starin' at the world through my rearview
     

Re: PG - Higher Ambitions, 5 in a row for the Raps!!! 

Post#290 » by Tha Cynic » Thu Nov 4, 2021 3:10 pm

Backcountry wrote:
Tha Cynic wrote:
Zutroy wrote:Beal for Siakam tomorrow.. who says no?


Beal is one of the most overrated players in the NBA imo. If we're trading Siakam, we need to look for more.


We haven't even seen Pascal on the floor yet to see how he looks in the new "long-armed" lineup, and people are still on the "trade Siakam" bandwagon?

We don't appear to have very many weak spots, even on our bench. The only one who should be traded right now is Dragic. Not sure what's up with Dekker, or why he isn't seeing any floor time.


Agreed. The Raptors definitely need a starting 5 and trading Siakam may give you that, but unless you get someone significant who can play that position, you still have a great team here. The key is, there's no rush to change this team. They're young, and will only get better.

One thing people need to remember is that this team is in a development year. Anything like playoffs and whatnot is a huge icing on the cake. This team isn't good enough to compete with the best in the East, but they will make it difficult for even the elite teams.
Kobe Bryant:You asked for my hustle - I gave you my heart, because it came with so much more."~Kobe #MambaOut
User avatar
bluerap23
Head Coach
Posts: 7,161
And1: 7,297
Joined: Aug 15, 2012
   

Re: PG - Higher Ambitions, 5 in a row for the Raps!!! 

Post#291 » by bluerap23 » Thu Nov 4, 2021 3:10 pm

Dennis 37 wrote:
Tha Cynic wrote:
Zutroy wrote:Beal for Siakam tomorrow.. who says no?


Beal is one of the most overrated players in the NBA imo. If we're trading Siakam, we need to look for more.


Beal is 6'3 and has a PER of 18.3
Pascal is 6'9 and has a Career PER of 16.9

Pascal has been mega inconsistent in his career, starting out with horrendous shooting ability, and then going through the pandemic funk. I think Pascal, with all the support around him, will be the best Pascal, not the one in the funk. He showed funk recovery before his injury last year.

There just isn't enough difference for me to give up 6 inches in height.


PER measures offence.
Image
User avatar
bape_lovers
RealGM
Posts: 24,896
And1: 18,995
Joined: Oct 28, 2010
Location: 6ix side
 

Re: PG - Higher Ambitions, 5 in a row for the Raps!!! 

Post#292 » by bape_lovers » Thu Nov 4, 2021 3:11 pm

Hell no…kat doesn’t play defence

yyzsportsjunky wrote:If we’re trading pascal, rather do it for someone like KAT..

KAT
Barnes
OG
GTJ
FVV

:o
Image

Credit to JaysRule, Detective
User avatar
Tha Cynic
RealGM
Posts: 26,690
And1: 28,612
Joined: Jan 03, 2006
Location: Starin' at the world through my rearview
     

Re: PG - Higher Ambitions, 5 in a row for the Raps!!! 

Post#293 » by Tha Cynic » Thu Nov 4, 2021 3:15 pm

Lukeem wrote:Going for the all time pettiness move, Ujiri and Nurse get together and decide to bench Dragic and make him waste away on a bench that out preforms the "higher ambitions" team he wanted to play for

Then sit down with Dragic and calmly explain "Bitch there is no higher ambition than playing for this organization"


I heard on the radio that Dragic was fretanizing with everyone on the Mavs and spent a lot of time with them, including Cuban when they faced the Raptors. Maybe that rubbed everyone the wrong way.
Kobe Bryant:You asked for my hustle - I gave you my heart, because it came with so much more."~Kobe #MambaOut
User avatar
NBA Sheady
General Manager
Posts: 8,094
And1: 5,672
Joined: Nov 17, 2004

Re: PG - Higher Ambitions, 5 in a row for the Raps!!! 

Post#294 » by NBA Sheady » Thu Nov 4, 2021 3:25 pm

MainEvent wrote:loving FVV's midrange game this year, his game is so much better with this element


Once defenders start worrying about him stopping and popping it should make it easier for him to get to the tin.
The good thing about BI is he can shoot over defenders.
The bad thing about BI is he can shoot over defenders.
User avatar
Backcountry
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,703
And1: 2,032
Joined: Feb 22, 2021
Location: North of We The North
     

Re: PG - Higher Ambitions, 5 in a row for the Raps!!! 

Post#295 » by Backcountry » Thu Nov 4, 2021 3:34 pm

GLF wrote:
Backcountry wrote:It's probably already been said on here, and I know it's 5 in a row, but I'm not getting too excited until we beat an actual contender. We've beaten 3 "imaginary" good teams (Knicks, Wizards, Celtics), but haven't played BKN, 76ers, the Lowry Heat, or Atlanta yet. Pacers are getting better with the return of LeVert, and Carlisle will have them improving as he exerts his coaching (and TJ Warren almost back from injury.)

So, while I'm enjoying the hard work and "upset" wins during this streak, I'm trying to keep it in perspective. Need to get Scottie back. Siakam and Yuta healthy and fully integrated again to see what we really have. Need to do something with Dragic and get some return rather than just release him. Need to get Precious offensively in tune (I think everyone is too hard on him. His defence last night was very good, and obviously someone had a talk with him at halftime because his huge putdown was totally opposite of what he was doing in the first half).

Tomorrow night, welcome Cleveland! Want to see Mobley play and see how we handle a 7-foot, mobile centre who can shoot, pass, block etc. Not to mention having Allen on the floor potentially at the same time.

Edit: Forgot to mention that we haven't played the Bucks yet either.



I hate when people talk about this beating a contender thing. To make the playoffs you need to be the teams that are worse than you and teams on your level. Beating contenders is great and I would love that but beating teams like Washington and New York consistently is way more important. **** teams beat contenders all the time, they're still **** lol. And you wanna know why? Because they beat a contender and then go and lose 3 in a row to lesser teams. Also we aren't a contending team yet, we are building to that and we've all agreed on that, so not being able to beat contenders wouldn't bother me. All those teams you named are better than us and should be us. No big deal.


Some comments have us getting homecourt advantage in the playoffs, Nurse COTY, multiple all-stars etc. To reach any of those milestones, you gotta beat the "contenders". So I'm just saying that it's 9 games in, and we haven't played anybody who was projected to be among the top teams in the league yet. Yes, you have to beat the teams below you. But you get them below you by beating them, and other teams, too. There are at least 6 teams in the east that could be better than us (although I'm not sold yet on the Bulls or Hawks.) Indiana I think will be about equal just because of Carlisle. Boston? Who knows? We certainly are an exciting team, and look promising, and I can't wait to see how things progress, but I'm trying to keep an even keel while enjoying the ride.
'Cos it's easier to try
Than to prove it can't be done
GLF
Senior
Posts: 717
And1: 1,030
Joined: Sep 03, 2018
 

Re: PG - Higher Ambitions, 5 in a row for the Raps!!! 

Post#296 » by GLF » Thu Nov 4, 2021 3:45 pm

Backcountry wrote:
GLF wrote:
Backcountry wrote:It's probably already been said on here, and I know it's 5 in a row, but I'm not getting too excited until we beat an actual contender. We've beaten 3 "imaginary" good teams (Knicks, Wizards, Celtics), but haven't played BKN, 76ers, the Lowry Heat, or Atlanta yet. Pacers are getting better with the return of LeVert, and Carlisle will have them improving as he exerts his coaching (and TJ Warren almost back from injury.)

So, while I'm enjoying the hard work and "upset" wins during this streak, I'm trying to keep it in perspective. Need to get Scottie back. Siakam and Yuta healthy and fully integrated again to see what we really have. Need to do something with Dragic and get some return rather than just release him. Need to get Precious offensively in tune (I think everyone is too hard on him. His defence last night was very good, and obviously someone had a talk with him at halftime because his huge putdown was totally opposite of what he was doing in the first half).

Tomorrow night, welcome Cleveland! Want to see Mobley play and see how we handle a 7-foot, mobile centre who can shoot, pass, block etc. Not to mention having Allen on the floor potentially at the same time.

Edit: Forgot to mention that we haven't played the Bucks yet either.



I hate when people talk about this beating a contender thing. To make the playoffs you need to be the teams that are worse than you and teams on your level. Beating contenders is great and I would love that but beating teams like Washington and New York consistently is way more important. **** teams beat contenders all the time, they're still **** lol. And you wanna know why? Because they beat a contender and then go and lose 3 in a row to lesser teams. Also we aren't a contending team yet, we are building to that and we've all agreed on that, so not being able to beat contenders wouldn't bother me. All those teams you named are better than us and should be us. No big deal.


Some comments have us getting homecourt advantage in the playoffs, Nurse COTY, multiple all-stars etc. To reach any of those milestones, you gotta beat the "contenders". So I'm just saying that it's 9 games in, and we haven't played anybody who was projected to be among the top teams in the league yet. Yes, you have to beat the teams below you. But you get them below you by beating them, and other teams, too. There are at least 6 teams in the east that could be better than us (although I'm not sold yet on the Bulls or Hawks.) Indiana I think will be about equal just because of Carlisle. Boston? Who knows? We certainly are an exciting team, and look promising, and I can't wait to see how things progress, but I'm trying to keep an even keel while enjoying the ride.



I liked your comment by accident lol. But I actually disagree. We can be an above .500 team and top 4-6 in the East by just beating teams below us and on our level. There are more teams below us and on our level in the East than team ahead of us. And as long as we're an above .500 team and a winning team COTY and All Stars can and probably will happen. Especially because most media, especially American media, thought we wouldn't even be a playoff team.

I swear in the year after the championship where we were a top 2 team in the East the criticism of us (along with other things) was we still didn't beat many of the contenders in our conference? Maybe I have that mistaken but that's what I remember and we stll ended up top 2. You don't have to beat contenders to be a top 4-6 team in your conference if you take care of the teams you're suppose to take care of consistently. Now don't lose every single game you play against contenders but being below .500 against contenders is not that serious unless you're a contending team which we are not.
vulture
Head Coach
Posts: 6,935
And1: 5,960
Joined: Oct 04, 2002
Location: At the Border

Re: PG - Higher Ambitions, 5 in a row for the Raps!!! 

Post#297 » by vulture » Thu Nov 4, 2021 3:52 pm

Read on Twitter
?s=20
User avatar
NBA Sheady
General Manager
Posts: 8,094
And1: 5,672
Joined: Nov 17, 2004

Re: PG - Higher Ambitions, 5 in a row for the Raps!!! 

Post#298 » by NBA Sheady » Thu Nov 4, 2021 3:54 pm

mdenny wrote:
Dennis 37 wrote:
Scott Hall wrote:
Read on Twitter


What's the Win Score on that? After a compliment like that one has earned a lot of latitude when one screws up.

Smart man.



Bro....after JR Smith I can understand why he's appreciative of our team culture.

But f'real....I looked into that and JR Smith is a jerk. Falsely labelling someone a "Trumper" in today's political climate is a low-blow and you only do that in hopes they get ostracized.


What do you suppose JR's motivation was? Was he losing time or touches?
The good thing about BI is he can shoot over defenders.
The bad thing about BI is he can shoot over defenders.
sbsat
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,549
And1: 6,158
Joined: Jan 03, 2014

Re: PG - Higher Ambitions, 5 in a row for the Raps!!! 

Post#299 » by sbsat » Thu Nov 4, 2021 4:04 pm

GLF wrote:
Backcountry wrote:It's probably already been said on here, and I know it's 5 in a row, but I'm not getting too excited until we beat an actual contender. We've beaten 3 "imaginary" good teams (Knicks, Wizards, Celtics), but haven't played BKN, 76ers, the Lowry Heat, or Atlanta yet. Pacers are getting better with the return of LeVert, and Carlisle will have them improving as he exerts his coaching (and TJ Warren almost back from injury.)

So, while I'm enjoying the hard work and "upset" wins during this streak, I'm trying to keep it in perspective. Need to get Scottie back. Siakam and Yuta healthy and fully integrated again to see what we really have. Need to do something with Dragic and get some return rather than just release him. Need to get Precious offensively in tune (I think everyone is too hard on him. His defence last night was very good, and obviously someone had a talk with him at halftime because his huge putdown was totally opposite of what he was doing in the first half).

Tomorrow night, welcome Cleveland! Want to see Mobley play and see how we handle a 7-foot, mobile centre who can shoot, pass, block etc. Not to mention having Allen on the floor potentially at the same time.

Edit: Forgot to mention that we haven't played the Bucks yet either.



I hate when people talk about this beating a contender thing. To make the playoffs you need to be the teams that are worse than you and teams on your level. Beating contenders is great and I would love that but beating teams like Washington and New York consistently is way more important. **** teams beat contenders all the time, they're still **** lol. And you wanna know why? Because they beat a contender and then go and lose 3 in a row to lesser teams. Also we aren't a contending team yet, we are building to that and we've all agreed on that, so not being able to beat contenders wouldn't bother me. All those teams you named are better than us and should be us. No big deal.


Couple of reminders to the poor fans that can't even enjoy this run (must be horrible to be that type of fan tbh): the Raptors are battling injuries and the Raptors are not supposed to be the top seed. Chances are the heat, Sixers, nets and eventually bucks will beat them, but they will irritate the hell out of these teams and may squeek out wins against them.
GLF
Senior
Posts: 717
And1: 1,030
Joined: Sep 03, 2018
 

Re: PG - Higher Ambitions, 5 in a row for the Raps!!! 

Post#300 » by GLF » Thu Nov 4, 2021 4:08 pm

sbsat wrote:
GLF wrote:
Backcountry wrote:It's probably already been said on here, and I know it's 5 in a row, but I'm not getting too excited until we beat an actual contender. We've beaten 3 "imaginary" good teams (Knicks, Wizards, Celtics), but haven't played BKN, 76ers, the Lowry Heat, or Atlanta yet. Pacers are getting better with the return of LeVert, and Carlisle will have them improving as he exerts his coaching (and TJ Warren almost back from injury.)

So, while I'm enjoying the hard work and "upset" wins during this streak, I'm trying to keep it in perspective. Need to get Scottie back. Siakam and Yuta healthy and fully integrated again to see what we really have. Need to do something with Dragic and get some return rather than just release him. Need to get Precious offensively in tune (I think everyone is too hard on him. His defence last night was very good, and obviously someone had a talk with him at halftime because his huge putdown was totally opposite of what he was doing in the first half).

Tomorrow night, welcome Cleveland! Want to see Mobley play and see how we handle a 7-foot, mobile centre who can shoot, pass, block etc. Not to mention having Allen on the floor potentially at the same time.

Edit: Forgot to mention that we haven't played the Bucks yet either.



I hate when people talk about this beating a contender thing. To make the playoffs you need to be the teams that are worse than you and teams on your level. Beating contenders is great and I would love that but beating teams like Washington and New York consistently is way more important. **** teams beat contenders all the time, they're still **** lol. And you wanna know why? Because they beat a contender and then go and lose 3 in a row to lesser teams. Also we aren't a contending team yet, we are building to that and we've all agreed on that, so not being able to beat contenders wouldn't bother me. All those teams you named are better than us and should be us. No big deal.


Couple of reminders to the poor fans that can't even enjoy this run (must be horrible to be that type of fan tbh): the Raptors are battling injuries and the Raptors are not supposed to be the top seed. Chances are the heat, Sixers, nets and eventually bucks will beat them, but they will irritate the hell out of these teams and may squeek out wins against them.



Thank you! If you're the type of fan who can't enjoy your team winning because "its not against the contenders" even when we aren't a contending team, I don't even know at that point. Always trying to tell people to temper expectations when the team is winning and actually exceeding expectations but when we lose the sky is falling and we are the worst team in the league and everyone needs to be traded lol. Being a fan like this seems like hell on earth.

Return to Toronto Raptors