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Sarver ESPN story

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Re: Sarver ESPN story 

Post#121 » by lilfishi22 » Fri Nov 5, 2021 12:22 am

bigfoot wrote:I'm curious, of all the different things in the ESPN report about Sarver, what do people think is the single most egregious item.


To me it's how he treats the organisation and his employees as kind of his boys club and what he says and does within this organisation has no consequences. The toxic bubble/culture he's tolerated or let to foster has allowed racist/misogynistic/toxic events to happen without little to no repercussion. It should be noted that probably half of the allegations is not against Sarver specifically but it's the culture that Sarver has allowed to become commonplace or for certain staff to feel comfortable to make racist/sexist comments/remarks that is evident of the tolerance for that toxic culture. The assault on the female employee which resulted in her having to move her desk only a little bit away as them considering that matter dealt with is a red flag and speaks to that little to no repercussion culture that's seems to be common. How an organisation deals with serious incidents tells you a lot about the organisation, the culture and those who drive that culture (usually from the top down).
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Re: Sarver ESPN story 

Post#122 » by bigfoot » Fri Nov 5, 2021 12:38 am

Slim Charless wrote:
bigfoot wrote:
RaisingArizona wrote:Driving employees to psychologists and suicide stuck out to me.


Yeah, I would agree that is a concern.

However, it can be guaranteed that every organization has that issue. Don't fool ourselves into thinking there are only problems with the Suns. There are people who have mental illnesses and/or suicidal tendencies in everyone's workplace. Self-care through psychologists or social workers is likely more prevalent than you think. Just not spoken about.

To me, if a job impacts your health and well-being you should immediately seek out other jobs. I wouldn't stick around hoping for change. It's hard to get the people at the top to recognize the need for change let alone to make sweeping changes.


Cool so go talk about those issues on those forums. Maybe instead of saying things like "if your job is terrible and causing you and others problems, then quit" you know, as opposed to forcing the offending managers/bosses to be forced to deal with that.

Unbelievable. You're essentially saying that he has a right to do whatever and say whatever he wants.

You want to know how to make change? Force the issue by bringing the ugliness to light and hitting the offenders in their pocket books.... you know, kind of like making a national story out of something your reprehensible owner did.


Didn't even come close to saying what you are conjecturing. You obviously have never had to fight a battle with upper management and don't understand the difficulties. It can wear on your physical and mental health because it is never, ever, ever, a short process. Years dude, years.

Honestly, the average Suns' employee would never get the ear of an ESPN reporter. This has McD, Watson, and Elhassan written all over it. Folks with media contacts. As the ESPN report states ... the employees with the knowledge to sue were given buyouts with NDAs. Those that couldn't navigate the system left after they couldn't take it anymore.
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Re: Sarver ESPN story 

Post#123 » by lilfishi22 » Fri Nov 5, 2021 12:39 am

Slim Charless wrote:
bigfoot wrote:
RaisingArizona wrote:Driving employees to psychologists and suicide stuck out to me.


Yeah, I would agree that is a concern.

However, it can be guaranteed that every organization has that issue. Don't fool ourselves into thinking there are only problems with the Suns. There are people who have mental illnesses and/or suicidal tendencies in everyone's workplace. Self-care through psychologists or social workers is likely more prevalent than you think. Just not spoken about.

To me, if a job impacts your health and well-being you should immediately seek out other jobs. I wouldn't stick around hoping for change. It's hard to get the people at the top to recognize the need for change let alone to make sweeping changes.


Cool so go talk about those issues on those forums. Maybe instead of saying things like "if your job is terrible and causing you and others problems, then quit" you know, as opposed to forcing the offending managers/bosses to be forced to deal with that.

Unbelievable. You're essentially saying that he has a right to do whatever and say whatever he wants.

You want to know how to make change? Force the issue by bringing the ugliness to light and hitting the offenders in their pocket books.... you know, kind of like making a national story out of something your reprehensible owner did.

This

You know what's really easy to do? Implement a policy and have people follow it as much as possible. Personal anecdote, about 6months into WFH because of Covid19, a few employees at my work (of a few thousand employees) raised to their managers that they were working later than usual because they were "available" online after work hours. We found ourselves having meetings at 7pm, they weren't finishing up at 6pm to go home because that commute time was now work time and because people were already home and didn't have to come into the office, 7:30am meetings were rare but acceptable. Two weeks after that, the business listened to the concerns and implemented a policy of no meetings before 9am and after 4pm and Friday's are a low traffic day. It wasn't a super strict policy such that you *can't* have meetings if you needed to have one but that policy reinforced the work/life balance culture my work were keen to promote because they saw employees were getting rundown by endless (and mindless) Zoom calls and working after hours. Similarly, we go through the mandatory online cultural sensitivity, workplace bullying, cybersecurity, insider trading etc etc training every half a year or so and it's mostly a compliance box to tick but the fact that we have to do it and we have to pass the assessment to get the tick means that everyone should at the very least be aware if they are doing something wrong. If I was found to have bullied someone in the workplace, guaranteed I would lose my job because the policy, the training and the culture is clear as day that it's not to be tolerated.

The sexist and racist comments that have been echoed a few times in the article tells me that while they may have the common no sexism/racism in the workplace policy that every workplace likely has, it clearly wasn't policed nor were there much if any consequences if someone was found to have broken the rules. So the culture it's reinforced is that the organisation is going to turn a blind eye to these sorts of events.
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Re: Sarver ESPN story 

Post#124 » by LukasBMW » Fri Nov 5, 2021 1:03 am

It seems like Sarver wants very badly to be liked, respected, and also be "cool." Unfortunately it appears he's either acting like a spoiled trust fund baby one minute or an immature frat boy the next minute. That's not a good combo.

He sure is insecure for a guy worth 9 figures.

A real owner wouldn't engage in "locker room talk" with his front office employees, try to be "college buddies" with his players, or go on rants with his coaching staff.

A true leader shows respect, shows restraint, and if needed shows force with actions, not words.

Time for a new owner. Sarver is a assclown.
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Re: Sarver ESPN story 

Post#125 » by bigfoot » Fri Nov 5, 2021 1:14 am

lilfishi22 wrote:
Slim Charless wrote:
bigfoot wrote:
Yeah, I would agree that is a concern.

However, it can be guaranteed that every organization has that issue. Don't fool ourselves into thinking there are only problems with the Suns. There are people who have mental illnesses and/or suicidal tendencies in everyone's workplace. Self-care through psychologists or social workers is likely more prevalent than you think. Just not spoken about.

To me, if a job impacts your health and well-being you should immediately seek out other jobs. I wouldn't stick around hoping for change. It's hard to get the people at the top to recognize the need for change let alone to make sweeping changes.


Cool so go talk about those issues on those forums. Maybe instead of saying things like "if your job is terrible and causing you and others problems, then quit" you know, as opposed to forcing the offending managers/bosses to be forced to deal with that.

Unbelievable. You're essentially saying that he has a right to do whatever and say whatever he wants.

You want to know how to make change? Force the issue by bringing the ugliness to light and hitting the offenders in their pocket books.... you know, kind of like making a national story out of something your reprehensible owner did.

This

You know what's really easy to do? Implement a policy and have people follow it as much as possible. Personal anecdote, about 6months into WFH because of Covid19, a few employees at my work (of a few thousand employees) raised to their managers that they were working later than usual because they were "available" online after work hours. We found ourselves having meetings at 7pm, they weren't finishing up at 6pm to go home because that commute time was now work time and because people were already home and didn't have to come into the office, 7:30am meetings were rare but acceptable. Two weeks after that, the business listened to the concerns and implemented a policy of no meetings before 9am and after 4pm and Friday's are a low traffic day. It wasn't a super strict policy such that you *can't* have meetings if you needed to have one but that policy reinforced the work/life balance culture my work were keen to promote because they saw employees were getting rundown by endless (and mindless) Zoom calls and working after hours. Similarly, we go through the mandatory online cultural sensitivity, workplace bullying, cybersecurity, insider trading etc etc training every half a year or so and it's mostly a compliance box to tick but the fact that we have to do it and we have to pass the assessment to get the tick means that everyone should at the very least be aware if they are doing something wrong. If I was found to have bullied someone in the workplace, guaranteed I would lose my job because the policy, the training and the culture is clear as day that it's not to be tolerated.

The sexist and racist comments that have been echoed a few times in the article tells me that while they may have the common no sexism/racism in the workplace policy that every workplace likely has, it clearly wasn't policed nor were there much if any consequences if someone was found to have broken the rules. So the culture it's reinforced is that the organisation is going to turn a blind eye to these sorts of events.


Sure setting policy is good. But it's when and where the policy gets applied is the problem. For example, I worked in the US Federal Government. Each year we received training on records management in regards to emails, phone calls, etc. The training was clear that failure to abide by the rules could result in a big fine and imprisonment. Now Hillary Clinton had a private email server that she used for her work as Secretary of State. At her home no less. Clear as mud she violated the records management rules. No fine/imprisonment. So at some point, in any organization, the rules may or may not be applied depending on how high up the chain of command the offender sits.
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Re: Sarver ESPN story 

Post#126 » by LukasBMW » Fri Nov 5, 2021 1:15 am

lilfishi22 wrote:
"These [N-words] need a [N-word]," Sarver told the staffer of his largely Black team, according to the executive.

Was there a time in the last 17 years when this was ok to say in a professional setting? I personally find a lot wrong with woke and cancel culture when used as a weapon in the wrong or undeserving context but are we really defending this?


If that exchange is true, it is by far the worst part of the article and that alone should "cancel" Sarver.

I too am not big on "cancel culture" but this allegation is in line with what Sterling said.
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Re: Sarver ESPN story 

Post#127 » by Revived » Fri Nov 5, 2021 1:27 am

Read on Twitter
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Re: Sarver ESPN story 

Post#128 » by bwgood77 » Fri Nov 5, 2021 1:30 am

matt131 wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:
Read on Twitter
?t=ijq6zy8yeZ-HA38oVa7qtw&s=19

This is interesting, I assumed he owned a higher percentage. Im not exactly sure how this works with these ownership groups but I wonder if the other 65% can remove him.

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Couldn't that billionaire just buy out the remaining minority owners, end up with 65% of the team, and then by default be the majority owner?


Yes, if they want to sell. It may have to be approved by the other owners and get some sort of approval but it probably would.

But they should be able to vote to remove him as managing partner regardless, as mentioned.
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Re: Sarver ESPN story 

Post#129 » by Frank Lee » Fri Nov 5, 2021 1:35 am

Still a big fan of the goat in the office prank.

I’m growing to despise people getting gigged for comments 10-15+ yrs past… using today’s standards on yesterday’s words. Go watch some tv from the 70s/early 80s…. You’d be shocked. meanwhile, the ‘F’ bomb is live and so frequent in today’s oration. Weird ass world we have now. We have the offender police running rampant, telling us all when we should be offended.

No doubt Sarver stuck his big foam finger in a mess. Have to think McDisgruntledUnemployedBBallExec is in the middle of this all. F him still
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Re: Sarver ESPN story 

Post#130 » by Ghost of Kleine » Fri Nov 5, 2021 1:43 am

King4Day wrote:These are a few points I think will get him in trouble:

When the Suns were recruiting free agent LaMarcus Aldridge in the summer of 2015, the team knew that Aldridge had young children in Texas and that playing near them was appealing. During the recruitment, Sarver remarked to two basketball operations staffers that the Suns needed to have local strippers impregnated by NBA players so those players would have children in the Phoenix area and feel obliged to be closer to them, giving the Suns a potential edge in free agency, the now-former staffers said.


No doubt he was joking, but as an owner, it's not something you say. He is denying it but I don't doubt it was said.

One former Suns basketball operations staffer who interacted with Sarver regularly said he still deals with stress and anxiety from Sarver's verbal abuse and late-night phone calls -- to the point that the panic he felt still strikes anytime the phone rings late in the evenings. "I never felt comfortable there," the staffer said. "And I was there for a long time. ... I didn't even get fired. If that gives you any context -- I left on my own. There's no reason to be miserable every day anymore."


No doubt if someone left on their own, they would have no reason to say this if it's not true.
--------

Even with the team's recent success, one current staffer said the team's culture has continued to decay.

"Now when employees should be having fun and should be enjoying the success," the staffer said, "the culture is lower than it's ever been."


This is why we need him out. Paul probably isn't seeing it since he just got there and Sarver has to bend over backwards for him.


This is what I think will get him in the most trouble:

- He agreed to a lot of what was mentioned which likely means other stuff was real too
- He cleaned up some of the bad stuff suggesting he remembers the time but it didn't happen in the way it was described (in so many words)
- The biggest thing that will hurt him is the culture behind the scenes. Talking about so many people saying they report stuff to HR (or are afraid to) and get 'severance' packages in exchange for NDA.



It'll be tough to oust him but I do think this may be the end result. It won't be fast though. I actually wouldn't be surprised if the investigation doesn't conclude until after this season.


Even if it takes the whole season, I'll take it if it finally happens! :nod:
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Re: Sarver ESPN story 

Post#131 » by Blonde » Fri Nov 5, 2021 1:44 am

Saberestar wrote:
Read on Twitter


Got to love that this squirrel uses this as his opportunity to subtly remind everyone that he drafted Booker, Ayton, and Bridges.
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Re: Sarver ESPN story 

Post#132 » by King4Day » Fri Nov 5, 2021 1:47 am

WeekapaugGroove wrote:
Saberestar wrote:
Read on Twitter
If he's going to make a statement I would think he should probably say if he ever witnessed any of the reported behavior. I'll give Watson credit for putting his name on his claims. And if Ryan hadn't witnessed any that obviously doesn't mean it didn't happen.

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I think him basically coming out in defense of everyone not Sarver is him agreeing without stating what he's seen. And it's too sensitive a topic to just come out and try to get on the right side of all this. So I believe McD is quietly acknowledging he's seen it too
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Re: Sarver ESPN story 

Post#133 » by King4Day » Fri Nov 5, 2021 1:48 am

Blonde wrote:
Saberestar wrote:
Read on Twitter


Got to love that this squirrel uses this as his opportunity to subtly remind everyone that he drafted Booker, Ayton, and Bridges.


I see it as those are the only guys left from his tenure.

I don't think McD is the one we should be going after simply because his run didn't end well. he's supporting the right side publicly. That's all that matters.
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Re: Sarver ESPN story 

Post#134 » by King4Day » Fri Nov 5, 2021 1:51 am

Revived wrote:
Read on Twitter


As for this, I want an owner with 100% stake, or a billionaire with majority ownership stake. I don't care what race they are, I just want someone who's passionate about the team/sport the way Lacob and Cuban are. That isn't scared to lose a little money (tax) if it means keeping a contender together.
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Re: Sarver ESPN story 

Post#135 » by snowthedirtbub » Fri Nov 5, 2021 2:02 am

I hate Sarver just as much as the next guy and actually got excited when this first broke at the prospect of a new owner but after reading it I think it was way overhyped and not that bad. Now all the accusations are bad but there's somethings in the story that kinda make me question if all its true.

First the only major accusations made by someone not anonymous was Earl Watson. The worse thing he said Sarver did was use the N word, and nobody else was around to hear it. The other time he was accused of saying it he admitted he did.

Then there is this

A recruiting pitch was set for the start of free agency. Among Sarver and others, attendees included Nash's agent Bill Duffy and 2003 Rookie of the Year Amar'e Stoudemire, both of whom are Black. Three people in the room told ESPN that, during the meeting, Sarver made a comment they felt was racially insensitive; they could not recall specifics but said they felt he too loosely used the term "Black guy" during the conversation.


There is no context here to judge if he used "black guy" too many times besides some anonymous source saying he did. Both Amare and Nash had long careers with the Suns and Nash bought a soccer team with Sarver so how bad could it have been?

Watson said he explained to Sarver the optics of a white owner asking a Black coach to fire an agency led by a Black agent, Paul.


What are the optics? How is this a racial thing?

Sarver, according to two people who witnessed the interaction, asked Griffin whether he shaved his legs. Griffin said he did. Sarver then asked, "Do you shave your balls, too?" One basketball operations staffer said Sarver separately asked the question of others in the organization several years later.

When reached for comment, Griffin told ESPN, "At the time, I took it as a joke. Looking back on it in the context of today, for a leader of a company or the owner of a team to say such a thing is inappropriate."


Yea unprofessional and embarrassing for the owner of a billion dollar sports team but worth losing a team over?

AFTER A GAME in the 2018-19 season, Sarver fumed that rookie center Deandre Ayton -- the 2018 No. 1 pick -- had failed to record a block or a foul. Sarver slammed a stat sheet on the table in front of assistant coach Corliss Williamson, who had been working with Ayton. "In all my years, that's the first time I've ever seen an owner come in there and act like that with the coaching staff," Williamson said.

Williamson was a 6-foot-7, 245-pound former NBA champion with the Detroit Pistons whose NBA nickname was "The Big Nasty." Williamson, who grew up in Arkansas, said an older, white male owner aggressively confronting him -- a Black man from the South -- carried racial connotations for him.

"That's exactly where my mind went," Williamson told ESPN.


Just because a white boss confronted a black employee? Was anything said that made it seem about more than just performance?

Then there's this

NBA spokesperson Mike Bass said the league has not "received a complaint of misconduct at the Suns organization through any of our processes, including our confidential workplace misconduct hotline or other correspondence."

NBPA executive director Michele Roberts said she was not aware of any reports from players of misconduct by Sarver or the Suns. "Apart from [point guard Chris Paul] and James Jones, we have not had much official contact with the team and none that I can think of with Sarver."


With such widespread and systematic racism, misogyny, abuse, etc but not a single complaint in the 17 years he's owned the team?

Sarver is a crappy person/boss and a lot of this is probably true but it's a lot of he said/she said and it isn't nearly as damming as it was hyped to be. They also added somethings that I don't think were that big of a deal like the Williamson confrontation which took away from the severity of the article. Makes me think they were just intentionally trying to add as many things as possible to make it sound worse.
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Re: Sarver ESPN story 

Post#136 » by Revived » Fri Nov 5, 2021 2:03 am

Blonde wrote:
Saberestar wrote:
Read on Twitter


Got to love that this squirrel uses this as his opportunity to subtly remind everyone that he drafted Booker, Ayton, and Bridges.

He’s gonna try to use that to somehow get a job again in the NBA. Doubt it works but we’ll see.
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Re: Sarver ESPN story 

Post#137 » by Blonde » Fri Nov 5, 2021 2:03 am

King4Day wrote:
Blonde wrote:
Saberestar wrote:
Read on Twitter


Got to love that this squirrel uses this as his opportunity to subtly remind everyone that he drafted Booker, Ayton, and Bridges.


I see it as those are the only guys left from his tenure.

I don't think McD is the one we should be going after simply because his run didn't end well. he's supporting the right side publicly. That's all that matters.


Me going after McDonough for being a pompous douche does not mean I’m excusing Sarver. McD’s ineptitude was second only to Earl Watson but if the reported conduct/statements are true then Sarver should face the consequences.
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Re: Sarver ESPN story 

Post#138 » by snowthedirtbub » Fri Nov 5, 2021 2:06 am

Also

Said general manager Jones, through Sarver's attorneys: "On multiple occasions, I observed Earl engage in behavior and use language that was extremely unprofessional and offensive. That does not align with who we are."


Would this be something James Jones say to make Sarver happy? Thats a pretty heavy thing to say about someone, just more he said she said.
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Re: Sarver ESPN story 

Post#139 » by lilfishi22 » Fri Nov 5, 2021 2:15 am

Frank Lee wrote:Still a big fan of the goat in the office prank.

I’m growing to despise people getting gigged for comments 10-15+ yrs past… using today’s standards on yesterday’s words. Go watch some tv from the 70s/early 80s…. You’d be shocked. meanwhile, the ‘F’ bomb is live and so frequent in today’s oration. Weird ass world we have now. We have the offender police running rampant, telling us all when we should be offended.

No doubt Sarver stuck his big foam finger in a mess. Have to think McDisgruntledUnemployedBBallExec is in the middle of this all. F him still

70's and 80's are literally 50-40 years ago now. We're talking about allegations from within the last decade, within the past 5 years.

I don't doubt McD and Watson have few good things to say about Sarver but are you suggesting they are bitter about their exit so they making up lies just to blast a bad owner they worked for previously? Are we suggesting everyone just butthurt so to pile on Sarver?
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Re: Sarver ESPN story 

Post#140 » by WeekapaugGroove » Fri Nov 5, 2021 2:31 am

LukasBMW wrote:It seems like Sarver wants very badly to be liked, respected, and also be "cool." Unfortunately it appears he's either acting like a spoiled trust fund baby one minute or an immature frat boy the next minute. That's not a good combo.

He sure is insecure for a guy worth 9 figures.

A real owner wouldn't engage in "locker room talk" with his front office employees, try to be "college buddies" with his players, or go on rants with his coaching staff.

A true leader shows respect, shows restraint, and if needed shows force with actions, not words.

Time for a new owner. Sarver is a assclown.
Absolutely. Well put.

We can parse through all this but the real and undeniable point boils down to the man isn't fit to lead a basketball team.

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