durka wrote:dhsilv2 wrote:durka wrote:I get the point youre trying to make here, but no need to disrespect Bosh like that.
Bosh just got inducted into the HoF and was a key part of one the most historically significant teams, Redd isn't even close to that level. Ray and KG are definitely a level above Bosh, but CB is probably 2 levels above Redd.
KG's on a completely other level than Ray too...KG is to Bosh as Ray is to Redd is completely fair. The first statement is easier for people to get because they understand a top at worst 15 guy in KG and a barely top 100 guy in bosh.
The difference between a top 20 and a top 50 player definitely isn't the same as the difference between an 11 time allstar who won 2 rings and a guy who made the allstar team once during a period of time when the eastern conference wasn't very good. David West would be a closer KG comparable IMO.
It feels like a lot of people here are forgetting that Ray Allen was really good on the Bucks and Sonics before going to the C's. It also feels like Redd is being WAY overrated here. He couldn't stay healthy and when he was, I'd still take peak Ray over him. If we want to compare a guy from that era who had a short prime, Brandon Roy would be way closer. Redd's game might have been closer to Allens stylistically, but in terms of level of player I think Roy was way closer. If you put Redd on a team with actual good players I don't think his stats would have looked close to as good as they did on a perpetually bad Bucks team, whereas Roy was leading the Blazers to the playoffs every year and putting up big numbers.
Bosh isn't remotely close to as good as the 11x allstar apperances sounds and Redd was WAY better than 1x all star sounds. I assume we are evaluating these guys as players, not the stupid allstar game where the players are selected before the season even ends.
While I think OP is underrating Ray Allen, nobody else here seems to be doing that.
The last player comparison forum top 100 ranked KG at 11 and Bosh at 86. 77 spots apart. Allen was ranked 50th. I think it's fair to agree that the gap between 11th all time and 86th is FAR FAR bigger than the gap between 50th and say 127th. There are way more players who you'd cluster into say 100-150 in a much more interchangeable way and by then allstar appearances are not even a factor.
Now to how good Redd was, I think you're underrating him more than the OP is underrating Ray Allen. From 03-08 Redd missed 48 games total over 6 seasons. During that time he had a BPM of 2.6, VORP of 18.6, PER of 20.2, and a WS of 46.7. That' s legit 6 year run of low level but still allstar level production, being awarded to a team or not being inconsequential. He was a really good player and I think if you did a top 150 all time players list, you'd be very much looking at him for the last 10 or so spots. Which makes the analogy pretty reasonable. That is unless you think Bosh was anywhere closer to as good as Ray Allen and then...I can't help you there. WE just disagree on Bosh and that's for another time and another thread.
