Realistic upgrades at C?

[Raptors Realtor]

Getting KAT would involve too many assets.
Stand firm for now and evaluate.

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[blueseeka]

Also to those saying stick with Precious for the playoff run...

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That picture is wild

[WaltFrazier]

I can see developing Precious more, sure. But even if he improves, he is still undersized. So is Birch for that matter. I think we need one 6'11 or 7 footer. Not a stiff of course, but either:

- a defensive rebounder and rim protector, who can also finish from the dunker spot. A poor man's Capela, whoever it might be

or

- a big who can shoot, space the floor, and pass from outside to cutters too. A Marc Gasol lite. Kelly Olynyk would be perfect. We should have gone after him in the summer, but there's still some deadline which a new free agent can be traded after, right? And, Canadian.

I know the league is changing, and we have all these long wingspan guys, blah blah. But every team still has a 7 footer or more. We need one too, to pair with Birch in a center duo.

I would say Masai didn’t achieve what he has so far for the Raptors by following consensus and doing what other teams do.

Yeah, and maybe this smallball thing will work out. But look, when we had a super team in 2019, a huge part of that was having not one but 2 really good centers. The 2019 team was maybe assembled in a different way, but it was a pretty traditional basketball team as far as having a balance of size and positions. And last year Masai's idea of what to replace them with was a miserable failure.

The GSW mini dynasty was the ultimate 3 point shooting team, and played Draymond at center sometimes in a small lineup, but they always had an actual big C in their back pocket, like Bogut, for when they needed to match up.

[DreamTeam09]

Keep playing both n developing precious as well. We are winning, so what's the problem. The only C that's universally liked are like Jokic n Joel.

I'm not opposed to an upgrade, but I like both birch n precious. A 3rd string C 7ft would be great, but no to someone like favours.

[ThatClockWork]

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Lol! Yes this will never happen. Yes I can still dream. Throw some FRP's their way lol

[Boogie!]

jakob poeltl would actually be a perfect fit at c for how this team is constructed... low maintenance, great defensive instincts, good rebounder and shot blocker, fairly athletic, can finish on the pnr... and hes 7'1... hes like an upgraded version of what khem birch brings to the table... wonder what it would take to bring him back...

fvv
og
barnes
siakam
poeltl

thats crazy, thats like an upgraded bench mob from years back... so huge that lineup.

[Def Leppard]

Don't think we need to given our chip chances this year

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[mowcrowbar]

What bout JV. New Orleans is in last place this year

Bring the turtle back you say?

JV has never played for Nurse, I think he would excel in Nurse scheme. Nurse would never put him in a position to fail unlike Casey. He would maximize JV's strengths unlike Casey.

Jonas is no spring chicken anymore. He is 29. The Pelicans are going to want a a decent package for him, and we are not in the position to lose any picks or young prospects.

[mdenny]

I ain't disrespecting anyone for their opinions.

But my take: our Coaching staff and FO have decided that the traditional C is or will become antiquated in the NBA.

Alot of smart ppl have written artocles about what happened last year between the clippers and the jazz. Gobert is basically the best approximation to a traditional C that is available.

There is a very simple way to make a Gobert-type unplayable in a 7 game playoff series.

So if you agree with the many think-pieces that jave emerged on this subject....there is no reason to EVER spend more than 10 milly per season on a C. He can be made a liability.

This is why i don't think our FO has any interest in upgrading our C position. If we make a big move....i would assume it would be in our backcourt to compliment fred and bring Gary off the bench.

As much as i love Fred and our team as a whole...to succeed in the playoffs we are going to need an ISO bucket getter. The good news is that Fred can play both positions in the backcourt. That means we could add either a PG or a SG with our draft picks and we would be contending THIS YEAR.

I think alot of ppl are having trouble letting go of the traditional roster construction models. My guess is our FO and coaches let go of it 2 years ago. If you can't defend the 3 point line then a team can play you off the court. Simple as that.

No matter who we get to upgrade our C spot....they won't be as good as Gobert....and Gobert was proven unplayable in the playoffs given the right pffensive strategy.

If you draw the traditional C out far enough....they can't defend the penetration. If they defend the penetration....they can't defend the 3 point shot. This is why Mobley is thought to be the C of the future. Mobile enough to cover the 3 point line but can also protect the rim. But he's a freak. There's noone like that available. There's also jokic and embiid freaks.

The raptors have NO plans to play a C in crunch time when we are healthy. Its gonna be siakam/OG/barnes in our frontcourt.

[tecumseh18]

But my take: our Coaching staff and FO have decided that the traditional C is or will become antiquated in the NBA.

.....
The raptors have NO plans to play a C in crunch time when we are healthy. Its gonna be siakam/OG/barnes in our frontcourt.

Yes. It's hard to accept because we all like the idea of a big man on the court. Aesthetically and marketing-wise, it's always been one of the fun things about the NBA (going back to the promotions for the first game at Maple Leaf Gardens).

But ... we all saw Serge and Marc being played off the court in the Boston series. Celtics with Theis at C swept the Sixers (albeit without Simmons). So yeah, why pay the max or anything close to it for someone like that?

It's an experiment. I don't remember a team that just totally abandoned the idea of having at least a 6' 10, 6' 11' centre. At least the Heatles had a reasonable facsimile of a C in Chris Bosh. The Lakers have AD. But they were both fairly mobile. Bosh shed a lot of weight when he went to Miami. AD was a guard in his early teens, then grew. He's pretty big now, but Raps always seem to be able to handle him. Late last season we clowned the healthy Lakers, who were pushing to avoid the play-in tourney.

[Zeno]

I get the idea of not needing a traditional C and especially agree on not needing to pay one huge money, but I think there is value in getting one as an innings eater of sorts to avoid foul trouble on main guys and not expose them to being pounded on unnecessarily in regular season games.

[vini_vidi_vici]

You guys watch our defensive and offensive structure, and still think a big C matters?? Its wild to me.

We are buoying our ORTG with OREBs. Usually thats at the expense of transition defense, as I have been spamming for yrs. SO why are we great at both??

Hint: Its because we dont play big Cs.

This team favors defensive versatility and utility over one dimensional defensive guys. Deflections, steals to get out and run. This team allows guys to OREB because anyone 1-5 can pick up full court (Khem talked about this), and behind are 3-4 ball hawks who also have the versatility to match up 1-5.

Offensively, anyone want to tell me where we are good??

Hint: We score more 19.9 more points per 100 possessions more in it than the half court.

Sometimes I feel like no one watches the games.

But hey, lets go use assets to get a guy who has the same size as Embiid (few stop him like a Gasol), when we havent even pushed all in.

[Gold Dragon]

Any player we pick up will have to be mobile, have laterally agility as well as speed in the open floor, be able to defend the perimeter, handle the ball, pass and have the potential to shoot from 3. If they happen to be over 6-9 in height then sure.

But we are not going to get a player just for the sake of having someone over a certain height or weight to guard 1 or 2 matchups and potentially ruin all our offensive and defensive schemes.

[tecumseh18]

We are buoying our ORTG with OREBs. Usually thats at the expense of transition defense, as I have been spamming for yrs. SO why are we great at both??

Hint: Its because we dont play big Cs.

That's not a hint, that's a spoiler.

Two questions:

1. Would you have drafted Mobley over Barnes?

2. Would the Raptors have?

Tonight, going up against Allen and Mobley together, will be fascinating.

[mdenny]

I get the idea of not needing a traditional C and especially agree on not needing to pay one huge money, but I think there is value in getting one as an innings eater of sorts to avoid foul trouble on main guys and not expose them to being pounded on unnecessarily in regular season games.

I think we already got the inning-eaters though (nice analogy!). Birch is a decent traditional PNR center and Precious is a guy with more upside.

I don't kmow about Precious though. I figure it's my own lack of basketball knowledge. Truth be told....i wish Birch was playing more. But Nurse and the FO know alot more than me and they obviously see something. Alot of that stuff probably comes from what happens in practise too.

I've never been a big rebounding appreciative guy. So maybe i undervalue Precious cause of that.

Fact is....seems like the combo of the 2 of them....birch being the steady guy, precious being the high potential efficient contract guy....i think our coaching staff is already getting what we mostly want from that position. You can't not have ANY inning-eating Cs....but it's not worth any big investment or compromises elsewhere in the roster.

[Backcountry]

If Masai can find a 6'10" to 7'+ guy who can guard 1-5, has a 7'4" wingspan minimum, can sprint the floor on 36 minutes per game and can break LeBron's ankles with his crossover, then I'm sure he'd try to get him. Otherwise it's just difficult to find someone who fits our system.

Okay, maybe he doesn't have to do ALL those things, but he's got to fit our system. Even Ibaka would be too slow these days to keep up with these guys, with his health problems.

[vini_vidi_vici]

We are buoying our ORTG with OREBs. Usually thats at the expense of transition defense, as I have been spamming for yrs. SO why are we great at both??

Hint: Its because we dont play big Cs.

That's not a hint, that's a spoiler.

Two questions:

1. Would you have drafted Mobley over Barnes?

2. Would the Raptors have?

Tonight, going up against Allen and Mobley together, will be fascinating.

I guess it depends, I prefer Ws/Gs in terms of building a team around, but if I had the opportunity to draft Mobley, its unlikely id run the same offensive/defensive structure. So this isnt a binary question.

Losing to a team with 2 bigs in a NOV game, really means little in terms of validity that opinion either way (it wont stop the people here tho).

[Backcountry]

We are buoying our ORTG with OREBs. Usually thats at the expense of transition defense, as I have been spamming for yrs. SO why are we great at both??

Hint: Its because we dont play big Cs.

That's not a hint, that's a spoiler.

Two questions:

1. Would you have drafted Mobley over Barnes?

2. Would the Raptors have?

Tonight, going up against Allen and Mobley together, will be fascinating.

I guess it depends, I prefer Ws/Gs in terms of building a team around, but if I had the opportunity to draft Mobley, its unlikely id run the same offensive/defensive structure. So this isnt a binary question.

Losing to a team with 2 bigs in a NOV game, really means little in terms of validity that opinion either way (it wont stop the people here tho).

I'm so looking forward to tonight's game. Even if we lose to the "two bigs", I agree it's just a November game, and I think it will just let Nurse know how to beat them next time. He has so many tricks up his sleeve...

[ReggieSlater]

Is Joel Przybilla available?

[Johnny Bball]

I ain't disrespecting anyone for their opinions.

But my take: our Coaching staff and FO have decided that the traditional C is or will become antiquated in the NBA.

.

Kind of funny but… Of course they have, probably five years ago!

I mean draymond green and the GSW changed everything. Just because we got there with Gasoline changes little, he is a very different type of player. The Lakers got there with Davis which is a PF. And last year the Bucks had to play GA more at the five and Buds fascination with Lopez and traditional bb almost cost him yet again.

There is no place really left for that player. The position is getting quicker and quicker means smaller. Quicker means an ability to guard more than the five, and the perimeter. No finding that prototype centre in a different body is in no way easy and in no ways has the nba figured out what to really draft for there mostly. And he has to be able to space the floor and shoot the three.

I’ve been railing against employing slow centres and about this change for years here. Raptors are at least adapted now that they are rebuilding. No ide that they have it right at all yet. They obviously think highly of achuiwa and he could fit the mould but he’s raw as hell. Birch is just pretty darn average for the role but he doesn’t hurt you.

The end product, the ideal to small ball C to me… is OG. He can defend anyone. His offence would be unguardable for a C.

When we play Denver, I want to see OG on at the five against Jokic again to know for the future. I think it will make Jokic look like he’s not an mvp candidate.