76ers back to fining Ben Simmons

[DusterBuster]

Having to meet with team physician is harming Simmons' mental health.

Don't see Sixers ever winning this one in arbitration if challenged. They cannot prove that Simmons is not suffering from mental health issues.

Of course, I do think Simmons / Rich Paul is faking this whole mental health episode.

Exactly why I think, like you, that this is BS and totally a game by Simmons/Paul. They can literally claim ANY intervention or oversight of Ben's therapy is detrimental to his mental health and there's **** all the team or NBA can do about it.

I got slammed in the previous thread for suggesting the team has every right to make sure he's actually going to a legit therapist for the mental issues he's claiming and not some therapist who's just there to collect and easy paycheck while the two sit in a room for an hour on their phones or something like that.

If he's claiming mental health problems and he's actively working on that with a professional who's also trying to improve said mental health issue, then the team has every right to have some level of confirmation that what is claimed to be happening is actually taking place if the player wants to continue to collect his paycheck while undergoing treatment.

Otherwise it's not better than someone defrauding an employer with fake / overly-extended workmans comp. Employers regularly hire PI's to investigate employees when recovery from injury is taking an excessive amount of time. The Sixers deserve some level of confirmation that Ben is actively trying to improve his mental health.

[XtremeDunkz]

Ben for Westbrook? Ben would help the Laker's tremendously, but I'm not sure if Westbrook will fit in with Phili.

Id rather release Ben for nothing lol.

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[bisme37]

I don't understand why they want him to play so bad. To improve his trade stock? Or do they think he'll have a change of heart and decide to stay? What if does the opposite and he performs worse. Why take the risk? Team is playing well, why mess with the chemistry? It seems like a spiteful tactic to make Simmons do something he doesn't want to do. They're cutting off the nose to spite the face.

Should have just kept him away from the team until they could trade him, or should have traded him at the draft or during the summer.

I share your confusion on this. They can't possibly think they're going to convince him to be happy and stay there. So they must want him to play to up his trade value. But if he's doing whatever it takes to not play, you gotta think if he does play he will just be out there half-assing it. Which isn't going to help the team OR raise his value. And what if he plays and legit suffers some major injury? Then the trade offers dry up completely.

This whole thing continues to mystify me.

[the sea duck]

Darryl Morey is the Mutombo of swatting away mental health excuses. Royce White still looking for his And-1.

[Sixerscan]

Having to meet with team physician is harming Simmons' mental health.

Don't see Sixers ever winning this one in arbitration if challenged. They cannot prove that Simmons is not suffering from mental health issues.

Of course, I do think Simmons / Rich Paul is faking this whole mental health episode.

They don't need to prove that, they just need to prove he hasn't provided sufficient evidence that he is suffering from mental health issues. Which he hasn't. Burden of proof is flipped on something like this.

[DusterBuster]

I don't understand why they want him to play so bad. To improve his trade stock? Or do they think he'll have a change of heart and decide to stay? What if does the opposite and he performs worse. Why take the risk? Team is playing well, why mess with the chemistry? It seems like a spiteful tactic to make Simmons do something he doesn't want to do. They're cutting off the nose to spite the face.

Should have just kept him away from the team until they could trade him, or should have traded him at the draft or during the summer.

I share your confusion on this. They can't possibly think they're going to convince him to be happy and stay there. So they must want him to play and up his trade value. But if he's doing whatever it takes to not play, you gotta think if he does play he will just be out there half-assing it. Which isn't going to help the team OR raise his value. And what if he plays and legit suffers some major injury? Then the trade offers dry up completely.

This whole thing continues to mystify me.

Agreed. At this point, just move him. The only thing I can imagine at this point is Morey is just white-knuckling it to Dec 15th when more players will be available for trade.

[ocelot17]

He has zero value. He’s not worth all this trouble. They should make an example out of him and void his contract.

No team will offer him a max contract. He’ll be lucky to get a one year prove it type of deal.

[Sixerscan]

I don't understand why they want him to play so bad. To improve his trade stock? Or do they think he'll have a change of heart and decide to stay? What if does the opposite and he performs worse. Why take the risk? Team is playing well, why mess with the chemistry? It seems like a spiteful tactic to make Simmons do something he doesn't want to do. They're cutting off the nose to spite the face.

Should have just kept him away from the team until they could trade him, or should have traded him at the draft or during the summer.

I share your confusion on this. They can't possibly think they're going to convince him to be happy and stay there. So they must want him to play and up his trade value. But if he's doing whatever it takes to not play, you gotta think if he does play he will just be out there half-assing it. Which isn't going to help the team OR raise his value. And what if he plays and legit suffers some major injury? Then the trade offers dry up completely.

This whole thing continues to mystify me.

I honestly don't know if they actually want him to play, but I certainly think they don't want to pay him if he's not going to cooperate with what they want him to do.

[Drakeem]

I don't understand why they want him to play so bad. To improve his trade stock? Or do they think he'll have a change of heart and decide to stay? What if does the opposite and he performs worse. Why take the risk? Team is playing well, why mess with the chemistry? It seems like a spiteful tactic to make Simmons do something he doesn't want to do. They're cutting off the nose to spite the face.

Should have just kept him away from the team until they could trade him, or should have traded him at the draft or during the summer.

Because a player with 4 years left on his max contract refusing to play for the team he signed with on his own free will is a terrible precedent for the NBA.

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This. I'm usually on the players side for most of these disputes but I can't fathom someone willingly taking a long term deal for financial security and then being able to still do what they want.

Hope the league continues to back Philly.

[JujitsuFlip]

This is appropriate and the right move. Very predictable on both sides. Ben tried to get paid using an excuse that is hard to prove. Philly called his bluff.

Exactly, 76ers really have no choice at this point.

[DusterBuster]

Having to meet with team physician is harming Simmons' mental health.

Don't see Sixers ever winning this one in arbitration if challenged. They cannot prove that Simmons is not suffering from mental health issues.

Of course, I do think Simmons / Rich Paul is faking this whole mental health episode.

They don't need to prove that, they just need to prove he hasn't provided sufficient evidence that he is suffering from mental health issues. Which he hasn't. Burden of proof is flipped on something like this.

Exactly. This isn't unreasonable and it's super annoying the amount of people who just blindly think a player claiming mental healthy issues is above any question or reproach just because they've said the words "my mental health". They think that's the ultimate trump card and once it's played you should just shut your mouth on it.

As someone who's dealt with mental health issues and pretty clearly sees this as a situation where mental health issues are being abused to be compensated for not working, I think it's complete bull.

[SpreeChokeJob]

Simmon’s mental health and back issues suddenly got better. It’s a miracle!

[JShuttlesworth]

They should have never stopped the fines

[Sixerscan]

Having to meet with team physician is harming Simmons' mental health.

Don't see Sixers ever winning this one in arbitration if challenged. They cannot prove that Simmons is not suffering from mental health issues.

Of course, I do think Simmons / Rich Paul is faking this whole mental health episode.

They don't need to prove that, they just need to prove he hasn't provided sufficient evidence that he is suffering from mental health issues. Which he hasn't. Burden of proof is flipped on something like this.

Exactly. This isn't unreasonable and it's super annoying the amount of people who just blindly think a player claiming mental healthy issues is above any question or reproach just because they've said the words "my mental health". They think that's the ultimate trump card and once it's played you should just shut your mouth on it.

As someone who's dealt with mental health issues and pretty clearly sees this as a situation where mental health issues are being abused to be compensated for not working, I think it's complete bull.

Yeah this is the difference between coming up with some dumb strategy with your buddies versus trying to execute said strategy to screw over a multi-billion dollar organization.

And maybe he is suffering from mental issues for all we know, still gotta show the proof and work with the organization if you want the checks to come. Pretty simple.

[gbball]

I don't understand why they want him to play so bad. To improve his trade stock? Or do they think he'll have a change of heart and decide to stay? What if does the opposite and he performs worse. Why take the risk? Team is playing well, why mess with the chemistry? It seems like a spiteful tactic to make Simmons do something he doesn't want to do. They're cutting off the nose to spite the face.

Should have just kept him away from the team until they could trade him, or should have traded him at the draft or during the summer.

Because a player with 4 years left on his max contract refusing to play for the team he signed with on his own free will is a terrible precedent for the NBA.

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I don't disagree, but I've seen the Raptors go through this with Vince and there are no winners. The best thing is to keep him away from the team and figure out a trade. If they had done that in the first place, I'd argue that Simmons' value would have been higher than it is now.

They've bungled this from the get go and now they're throwing away good money after bad. Because now they've created a situation where Simmons has revealed his lack of professionalism to go along with his on court issues. Morey is banking on him coming back and playing amazing to improve his value...or possibly have a change of heart and decide to stick it out with the team. But it could just as easily go the other way, Philly can play worse, Simmons can dog it on the court and decrease his value. What would the team do at that point? Keep playing him until he plays good again? Belatedly tell him to stay away from the team as they should have done in the first place? Or just keep him around for the full duration of his deal in a clearly toxic situation for everyone.

Had they move quickly and decisively during the summer and taken the best deal and moved forward Philadelphia would arguably be in a better spot going forward.

I'm sure they'll eventually get something of value for him, but this isn't a good look for the organization or Simmons...so not only is Ben's value lower, Philly doesn't look like they know what they're doing from the outside looking in.

[DaddyCool19]

The league should blackball him

[Nate505]

That's really going to destroy his mental health.

[WarriorGM]

At this stage this is simply building up ammunition for the negotiations between the owners and players' association.

Players should not be pleased with what is going on.

[bstein14]

They really should trade Ben at this point. The situation isn't improving, and the longer this goes on the more it will drag his value down. Sixers are waiting for another star to demand a trade, but it's becoming increasingly unlikely that Simmons will make that trade happen.

Reportedly the best offer they got involved at least one player that couldn't be traded until Dec 15th so that is the earliest they are planning on trading him.

[King4Day]

If there's a chance they could get CJ from Portland still, I would probably pull that trigger and not demand much more than him. Maybe CJ and a first or something. That's it. Move on.