GT #9: Grizzlies @ Bullets 7 PM (NBCSW/980 AM) [11/5/21]

[dobrojim]

Yes (he's young) but he can't let this develop into Ben Simmons situation.

It appears (to me) to be mental but maybe that is harder to fix. I hope not and
there is no reason to think this will all become like Simmons. He's a very
promising player.

Oh stop, let’s give him a full 82 games before we start going there. He needs to finish better, free throw needs to be worked on, but the way he was treated last season as a player and his injury, give him some darn time. He’s showing a little bit more game-by-game trying to be more aggressive, results haven’t been stellar, but I think we need more than 9 games in a fresh start with a new coach before we start going to sport psychiatrist narrative.

I have to co-sign much of what cntoutsmrtcrazy says. It’s way too early to suggest that we might be looking at a Simmons situation with Deni.

Yes he needs to improve his FT shooting and finish better at the rim. But I’ve been increasingly impressed by Deni’s ability and willingness to take defenders off the dribble and there’s no reason to believe, at least in my opinion, that his FT shooting issues are mental.

A Simmons situation is a worst case and unlikely outcome.

[payitforward]

Except... here's the box score -- which shows Walker with 5 points not 15: https://gleague.nba.com/games/20211105/WESCCG/

Box score shows Walker with 15 pts.

Oh DUH -- for some reason on my screen the player names & numbers don't line up. But, Walker is the 9th guy listed, & you are totally right that the 9th set of numbers (his) show him with 15 points. My bad.

That's a lot of points to score in only 17 minutes.

But wait... the whole box score is utterly fouled up, since if you add up rows for players, half of them are incorrect. & if you add up FG & FT made columns you get a number unrelated to the points column -- or to the game results.

To see what I mean, take Jordan Goodwin, the first player listed. He went 12-24. That would be 24 points, right? Only 4 of his makes were 3-pointers, so that makes it 28 points instead. Plus, he went 2-2 from the line. So, that's 30 points, right? Except the final column lists him with 32 points not 30.

Echenique went 5-9, all 2-point shots. Plus, he made 2 FTs. 12 points, right? He's listed for 13.

My favorite is the guy right above Kyree Walker, who went 1-4 & made his only FTA, & is listed with 5 points!

OTOH, the team went 38-81, says the box score, with 11 of the makes being 3's -- so that's 76 + 11= 87 points plus 12 made FTs for a total of 99 points, right? Except they scored 107 points. At least so says the right-most column added up.

The opponent's box score is f'd up in the same way.

Good for Kyree scoring 15 points. But... who knows how he did it -- the box says he went 5 -10, of which 1 make was a 3-pointer. Plus he was 2-2 from the line. That's only 13 points.

[payitforward]

Yes (he's young) but he can't let this develop into Ben Simmons situation.

It appears (to me) to be mental but maybe that is harder to fix. I hope not and
there is no reason to think this will all become like Simmons. He's a very
promising player.

Oh stop, let’s give him a full 82 games before we start going there. He needs to finish better, free throw needs to be worked on, but the way he was treated last season as a player and his injury, give him some darn time. He’s showing a little bit more game-by-game trying to be more aggressive, results haven’t been stellar, but I think we need more than 9 games in a fresh start with a new coach before we start going to sport psychiatrist narrative.

I have to co-sign much of what cntoutsmrtcrazy says. It’s way too early to suggest that we might be looking at a Simmons situation with Deni.

Yes he needs to improve his FT shooting and finish better at the rim. But I’ve been increasingly impressed by Deni’s ability and willingness to take defenders off the dribble and there’s no reason to believe, at least in my opinion, that his FT shooting issues are mental.

Well... dobrojim does take it back in his last sentence.... Plus, Ben Simmons is a one-off. Both as a player (an incredible player) &, it seems, as a person.

[VCfor3]

Good game! Memphis forgot to pack their defense this road trip ha

[prime1time]

This is how it begins talking about how good Deni’s defense is as if it substitutes for his putrid shooting doesn’t make any sense. I’m the playoffs when everyone looks in Deni will be unplayable if he continues shooting like this. Good teams will make us pay. He was supposed to have improved his shooting before the draft. Then he was supposed to have improved it this off-season. People talking about Ben Simmons are confused. Simmons is a 3 time all star, a potential defensive player of the year and outside of shooting a very good player. Deni outside of shooting is solid for a player that’s 20 years old. If Deni’s shooting doesn’t improve he’s a bust. A more apt comparison for Deni might be Jan Vesely. What is happening with Avdija’s shooting? He’s shot 35% from 3 in his last year for Macabi Tel Aviv. His shooting is getting even worse. We aren’t asking him to take tough contested 3’s off the dribble. We are asking him to taking open set 3’s. I don’t understand how things are this bad.

Deni has played in only 63 games. In 9 games this season he has already taken more 3s than Simmons did all last year.

A 9 game sample size isn't enough to determine whether anyone has improved their shooting or not. That was the first time i can remember him taking 3s off the dribble which i am not a fan of but clearly he is not in the same category as Simmons.

Simmons has played in 275 games in the regular season and several playoff runs yet he is still scared to shoot a jumper or go to the foul line. He passed up a dunk in the playoffs because he was afraid of getting fouled and going to the line. I havent seen Deni do anything like that.

Simmons is a much better player than Avdija. Only in terms of shooting Avdija is better, but it's a silly comparison. SImmons is a better defender. Simmons is a better passer. Simmons is a better ball handler. Simmons is better at finishing. Simmons is better beating his man off the dribble. Simmons has a better basketball iq. Avdija is not a good enough basketball player to not be a good shooter. That is the reality.

Is Avdija a better shooter than Simmons? Yes. But what kind of comparison is that? SImmons is literally one of the worst shooters to not play a center position. Simmons is arguably the worst shooter in all of the NBA. The standard for Avdija isn't whether or not he's a better shooter than Simmons, but rather can you provide spacing in the playoffs.

As of right now Avdija's shooting numbers are dismal. And he is trending in the one direction. We are past the small sample size argument. Through 4 seasons, 2 at Macabi Tel Aviv in Euroleague and 2 here, Avdija is a 61% ft shooter. The arguments about small sample size and giving him more time are silly to me. With regards to Avdija's shooting, there is only one thing to say. Avdija must improve his shooting urgently. And I think it's perfectly fair to wonder if Avdija can ever become a good shooter. Like I said in the Avdija thread, good shooters don't shoot 61% from the ft line over 3+ years. Let's just say Avdija becomes an average shooter, which right now he is not. would you resign him?

[dobrojim]

The reason many of us are optimistic about Deni is how good
he could become (reasonable projection) by the time he has Sommons’
age and experience.

[tontoz]

This is how it begins talking about how good Deni’s defense is as if it substitutes for his putrid shooting doesn’t make any sense. I’m the playoffs when everyone looks in Deni will be unplayable if he continues shooting like this. Good teams will make us pay. He was supposed to have improved his shooting before the draft. Then he was supposed to have improved it this off-season. People talking about Ben Simmons are confused. Simmons is a 3 time all star, a potential defensive player of the year and outside of shooting a very good player. Deni outside of shooting is solid for a player that’s 20 years old. If Deni’s shooting doesn’t improve he’s a bust. A more apt comparison for Deni might be Jan Vesely. What is happening with Avdija’s shooting? He’s shot 35% from 3 in his last year for Macabi Tel Aviv. His shooting is getting even worse. We aren’t asking him to take tough contested 3’s off the dribble. We are asking him to taking open set 3’s. I don’t understand how things are this bad.

Deni has played in only 63 games. In 9 games this season he has already taken more 3s than Simmons did all last year.

A 9 game sample size isn't enough to determine whether anyone has improved their shooting or not. That was the first time i can remember him taking 3s off the dribble which i am not a fan of but clearly he is not in the same category as Simmons.

Simmons has played in 275 games in the regular season and several playoff runs yet he is still scared to shoot a jumper or go to the foul line. He passed up a dunk in the playoffs because he was afraid of getting fouled and going to the line. I havent seen Deni do anything like that.

Simmons is a much better player than Avdija. Only in terms of shooting Avdija is better, but it's a silly comparison. SImmons is a better defender. Simmons is a better passer. Simmons is a better ball handler. Simmons is better at finishing. Simmons is better beating his man off the dribble. Simmons has a better basketball iq. Avdija is not a good enough basketball player to not be a good shooter. That is the reality.

Is Avdija a better shooter than Simmons? Yes. But what kind of comparison is that? SImmons is literally one of the worst shooters to not play a center position. Simmons is arguably the worst shooter in all of the NBA. The standard for Avdija isn't whether or not he's a better shooter than Simmons, but rather can you provide spacing in the playoffs.

As of right now Avdija's shooting numbers are dismal. And he is trending in the one direction. We are past the small sample size argument. Through 4 seasons, 2 at Macabi Tel Aviv in Euroleague and 2 here, Avdija is a 61% ft shooter. The arguments about small sample size and giving him more time are silly to me. With regards to Avdija's shooting, there is only one thing to say. Avdija must improve his shooting urgently. And I think it's perfectly fair to wonder if Avdija can ever become a good shooter. Like I said in the Avdija thread, good shooters don't shoot 61% from the ft line over 3+ years. Let's just say Avdija becomes an average shooter, which right now he is not. would you resign him?

You obviously didn't look very closely at his euro stats. You should look again (hint: look at the free throw attempts).

He has the best on/off on the team even with his bad shooting. They just changed the defense rules which work in his favor. If he becomes just an average shooter he would be a nobrainer to resign.