Big = offense, Small = defense?

[giberish]

Traditionally, you expect that the best defensive teams in the league will play big and have their defense based around a stud defensive center. Meanwhile the top offensive teams would go small at center - playing extra forward sized guys there for more skill and quickness (or perhaps have a normal sized center known more for offensive skill).

Except right now, the top offensive team in the league is Embiid-led Philly with a 116.5 ORTG. Followed by Gobert-let Utah at 114.3. You have to get down to the Kings at #5 with a 111.9 ORTG to see a team that plays small.

Conversely, the top defensive team is Golden State (running a C rotation of Looney/Bjelica/Draymond/even Otto Porter for a few minutes) with a 96.4 DRTG. Followed by Jokic-led Denver at 100.6.

Is this random early season statistical weirdness? Is it 'overcompensating' in roster-building - that is if you've got a stud defensive C then you feel free to look for offense everywhere else and somewhat ignore D while teams with more offense-first center rotations prioritize defense everywhere else? Is is something else?

[UcanUwill]

Well, offense is all talent, and talent can be both big and small, I dont think we should look for correlation here yet.

Where on defense, everyone is skilled at perimeter these days, switch defense became the most reliable source of defense, and big guys are exploited as much as ever. Like Look at Walter Tavares form Madrid. In Europe many believe he is most dominant defender, hes 7'4 super in shape physical beast, but I really believe if you put him in NBA game, he would be one of the worst defensive players in the entire league instantly. If you cant switch, cant keep up with shooting guards or pick and poper screeners, you are cooked. So I am not really surprised that best defense is the team that plays small.

I mean bigs have potential to be best defenders, because of their possessed tools, and some of them are, but these bigs are still few and far between in the world. NBA already became so good, that stiff bigs are washing out of the league completely, look at Okafor, Monroe, Sullinger etc. and trends are that in the future maybe only bigs who can play D like Anthony Davis or Evan Mobley will be able to survive in this league, but as it is today, often the 7 footer is still the guy that will get targeted the most by such talents like Trae, Luka, Paul, LeBron, Ja etc.

[Doctor MJ]

Traditionally, you expect that the best defensive teams in the league will play big and have their defense based around a stud defensive center. Meanwhile the top offensive teams would go small at center - playing extra forward sized guys there for more skill and quickness (or perhaps have a normal sized center known more for offensive skill).

Except right now, the top offensive team in the league is Embiid-led Philly with a 116.5 ORTG. Followed by Gobert-let Utah at 114.3. You have to get down to the Kings at #5 with a 111.9 ORTG to see a team that plays small.

Conversely, the top defensive team is Golden State (running a C rotation of Looney/Bjelica/Draymond/even Otto Porter for a few minutes) with a 96.4 DRTG. Followed by Jokic-led Denver at 100.6.

Is this random early season statistical weirdness? Is it 'overcompensating' in roster-building - that is if you've got a stud defensive C then you feel free to look for offense everywhere else and somewhat ignore D while teams with more offense-first center rotations prioritize defense everywhere else? Is is something else?

Well so the super-interesting thing here if this phenomenon proves to be something real, is that this would be a shift back to how basketball was originally conceived.

The reason why guards are called "guards" is that they were "defensive backs", like what you see with defenders in soccer and defencemen in hockey.

How crazy would it be if the name "guard" eventually became meaningful again?

[cupcakesnake]

I like the premise.

Utah isn't really a "Gobert-led" offense though. They're defensively reliant on Gobert, while they put as many offensive pieces as possible on the floor. I also have a hard time believing Denver will remain a top defense all season. In general, I wouldn't take the defensive ratings after 10 games as a strong indication of season long standings. There's some pretty obvious non-elite defenses near the top right now (Denver, Brooklyn, Washington, Chicago, Minnesota), and some teams that have struggled early but are likely to get into the top 10 picture (Boston, Milwaukee, Phili, New York).

Traditional ATG defenses are built around a big defensive anchor at center: Robinson/Duncan's Spurs, Russell's Celtics, Hakeem's Rockets, Ben Wallace's Pistons etc. This is probably the easiest way to build an elite defense. But it's not a new thing to have small elite defenses. Pippen's Bulls come to mind. Golden State's Death Lineup. The original Bad Boys (yes they had Laimbeer, but he's not a traditional rim protector and wasn't the anchor of their defense). More recently the Clippers have tried to build a defense around big wings (they have Zubac but he's never been heavily leaned on in the playoffs). The post-Gasol Raps have been scrappy.

There are definitely some interesting "donut" defenses this year. I look at the Raptors first, who started a Siakam/OG/Barnes frontcourt last night. Even when they play centers, they're small mobile guys like Precious and Khem Birch. Miami is stomping the league right now with a pretty small center in Bam (and no meaningful backup big). Chicago has survived on defense much better than expected, mostly due to a monstrous point of attack defense in Ball and Caruso. Somehow they're hiding the Bulls soft underbelly of Derozan, Vooch and Lavine.

[draftnightsuit]

Jokic is a big man.

And as someone already said, the Jazz offense isn’t led around Gobert. They play him next to 4 perimeter players, and he can single-handedly make you a top 5 defense. Go look at Utah’s defensive rating without Gobert.

[K3nny Pow3rs]

There are teams with winning records now who won't even make the playoffs, so yes its early season weirdness.

[rzzzzz]

Philly this year is making some serious changes, but for at least a couple years prior they were one of the top defenses, built mainly around Embiid, who is a big center, and Simmons, who must have been the tallest pg.

[K3nny Pow3rs]

Last season there was a 10 game stretch Embiid missed (SAS, NYK, MIL, SAC, @NYK, @GSW, @LAL, @LAC, @DEN, @CLE), and Philly averaged 110.6ppg and conceded 102.8ppg.
And right now they are averaging 111.1ppg and conceding 102.6ppg....