2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 2)

[duppyy]

Honestly Barnes and Mobley are levels above the rest of the field right now.

Giddey has been great for my fantasy team

[links135]

Barnes has been fantastic in the way a normal great draft pick is ahead of the curve.

I’ve been really impressed with his scoring. He’s progressed much quicker than I expected.

Like most promising rookies, he isn’t the difference.

He missed a few games, team won anyway, and didn’t look any fundamentally different. Certainly not his fault they lost when he came back. They led most of it. They just have a much more established core with a number of guys who played on a championship team, and he’s not really a huge factor in winning or losing atm. Very very few rookies are.

Mobley is playing so many minutes as he’s transformative, and the very rare rookie who is the difference between winning and losing. It’s amazing to watch him contesting 3s and still being there when guys drive the lane, only for them to dribble back out rather than get it swatted. He’s altering the entire game.

Mobley has made life so much easier for Allen, beyond his own numbers. With that horrible defensive backcourt, it’s been amazing to see a patchwork roster of kids make sense. There has only been a handful of rookies who have ever had an impact like that.

He is going to get run down though with the minutes he’s logging. Cavs have to think more long term. He’s just so slim that it feel inevitable he’s just going to land wrong or something bad is going to happen at the end when exhausted given how much ground he covers. It’s about winning games, but need to keep him low 30s and just live with results at this point. It’s not a championship team and a few games I’ve seen him incredibly spent. They’re going to accelerate his rookie wall.

Ehh, this mostly comes down to Barnes having to play the 4 with Siakam injured whereas Mobley has the luxury of playing the 4 instead of the 5.

If Mobley had to play the 5 all game he would look worse. Same with Barnes having to be matched up with bigger players with no 3 point shot yet.

If Siakam was playing and you have Barnes, OG and Siakam out there with another center, well you put Mobley on Barnes and then who guards Siakam>

I do admit the Raptors still looked good without Barnes because Svi in the starting lineup provided spacing, but that still wouldn't solve the issue of FVV not being able to score inside with Mobley and Allen guarding the paint.

Biggest thing I noticed for offence is Barnes tends to create alot of his own shots while Mobley seemed to finish stuff people created for him (credit to his size for a 4), however Barnes is already 9th in the league in 2 point FG's made per game. Among the likes of Giannas, Jokic, Derozan, Butler, Ingram, Westbrook etc. And doing it at a solid 54% while having no 3-point shot yet.

So imagine if he develops one, with an actual triple threat game instead of people sagging off of him forcing him to shoot.

For me personally it's Mobley + Allen that is the difference maker, credit to Mobley's perimeter defence, but if he had to play like Barnes a position lower at the 5, it would be another story. Mobley against Embid? Ha. But it's what Barnes has to deal with right now.

(For the record, out of Barnes 61 FG's made so far, 43 are unassisted, or roughly 70%.

[LoveMyRaps]

Honestly Barnes and Mobley are levels above the rest of the field right now.

Giddey has been great for my fantasy team

Him and Franz have been exceeding expectations for sure but there nowhere near as good as Barnes & Mobley thus far.

[basketballRob]

Suggs the best defensive rookie so far, based on defensive rating. Just imagine if he was on a great defensive team.


https://www.nba.com/stats/players/advanced-leaders/

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM Forums mobile app

[Statlanta]

Will Barnes get better or worse now that Siakam is in play and Nurse can control Anunoby's and Barnes minutes?

[Bruin]

Suggs the best defensive rookie so far, based on defensive rating. Just imagine if he was on a great defensive team.


https://www.nba.com/stats/players/advanced-leaders/

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM Forums mobile app

Banton has a better defensive rating? So does Austin reaves

[basketballRob]

Suggs the best defensive rookie so far, based on defensive rating. Just imagine if he was on a great defensive team.


https://www.nba.com/stats/players/advanced-leaders/

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM Forums mobile app

Banton has a better defensive rating? So does Austin reaves

I'm only looking at the players that play against starters.

Plus neither one of those players have logged enough minutes to be among the league leaders.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM Forums mobile app

[Bruin]

Suggs the best defensive rookie so far, based on defensive rating. Just imagine if he was on a great defensive team.


https://www.nba.com/stats/players/advanced-leaders/

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM Forums mobile app

Banton has a better defensive rating? So does Austin reaves

I'm only looking at the players that play against starters.

Plus neither one of those players have logged enough minutes to be among the league leaders.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM Forums mobile app

Reaves plays 21 MPG vs Suggs 29. Not all that different

[Shy Gorgeous-Al]

Jalen Green is really problematic for me as a prospect. And I don't care how young he is.

Players just take him straight to the rim like he isn't even there.

[basketballRob]

Banton has a better defensive rating? So does Austin reaves

I'm only looking at the players that play against starters.

Plus neither one of those players have logged enough minutes to be among the league leaders.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM Forums mobile app

Reaves plays 21 MPG vs Suggs 29. Not all that different

I didn't even notice he was a starter when I browsed through the numbers.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM Forums mobile app

[QingJames]

Jalen Green is really problematic for me as a prospect. And I don't care how young he is.

Players just take him straight to the rim like he isn't even there.

Yeah, he's incredibly weak right now. He'll get stronger though. My biggest concern for him now is developing bad habits playing on a team that's trying to lose and next to another selfish chucker in KPJ. I can easily see Green becoming a black hole on offense, especially as his scoring efficiency improves.

[JonFromVA]

Barnes has been fantastic in the way a normal great draft pick is ahead of the curve.

I’ve been really impressed with his scoring. He’s progressed much quicker than I expected.

Like most promising rookies, he isn’t the difference.

He missed a few games, team won anyway, and didn’t look any fundamentally different. Certainly not his fault they lost when he came back. They led most of it. They just have a much more established core with a number of guys who played on a championship team, and he’s not really a huge factor in winning or losing atm. Very very few rookies are.

Mobley is playing so many minutes as he’s transformative, and the very rare rookie who is the difference between winning and losing. It’s amazing to watch him contesting 3s and still being there when guys drive the lane, only for them to dribble back out rather than get it swatted. He’s altering the entire game.

Mobley has made life so much easier for Allen, beyond his own numbers. With that horrible defensive backcourt, it’s been amazing to see a patchwork roster of kids make sense. There has only been a handful of rookies who have ever had an impact like that.

He is going to get run down though with the minutes he’s logging. Cavs have to think more long term. He’s just so slim that it feel inevitable he’s just going to land wrong or something bad is going to happen at the end when exhausted given how much ground he covers. It’s about winning games, but need to keep him low 30s and just live with results at this point. It’s not a championship team and a few games I’ve seen him incredibly spent. They’re going to accelerate his rookie wall.

Evan has been terrific and the twin/triple tower lineup has frustrated a number of teams; but there are other things going on here.

Consider ... Jarrett Allen finished the Raptors game with a +5 and Mobley with a -7. On the season, the Cavs are -3.1 with Mobley on the floor and +3.7 when he's off. That tells us he's not single handedly carrying the team on either end of the floor.

In the Raptors game it was a lot about Garland and Allen, but having a backup PG like Rubio has been a huge addition and with the defense holding teams to around 100ppg over the last 8 game ... sometimes all it takes is one or two guys to step up and have a big game on the offensive end. The bigs combined with the PG play provide a steady flow of offense against teams that can't match the size.

By the way, Evan has already landed wrong and had a pretty serious looking ankle twist a while back. It may have slowed him a bit or perhaps it's fatigue from the minutes/schedule, but it hasn't stopped him.

[Shy Gorgeous-Al]

Barnes has been fantastic in the way a normal great draft pick is ahead of the curve.

I’ve been really impressed with his scoring. He’s progressed much quicker than I expected.

Like most promising rookies, he isn’t the difference.

He missed a few games, team won anyway, and didn’t look any fundamentally different. Certainly not his fault they lost when he came back. They led most of it. They just have a much more established core with a number of guys who played on a championship team, and he’s not really a huge factor in winning or losing atm. Very very few rookies are.

Mobley is playing so many minutes as he’s transformative, and the very rare rookie who is the difference between winning and losing. It’s amazing to watch him contesting 3s and still being there when guys drive the lane, only for them to dribble back out rather than get it swatted. He’s altering the entire game.

Mobley has made life so much easier for Allen, beyond his own numbers. With that horrible defensive backcourt, it’s been amazing to see a patchwork roster of kids make sense. There has only been a handful of rookies who have ever had an impact like that.

He is going to get run down though with the minutes he’s logging. Cavs have to think more long term. He’s just so slim that it feel inevitable he’s just going to land wrong or something bad is going to happen at the end when exhausted given how much ground he covers. It’s about winning games, but need to keep him low 30s and just live with results at this point. It’s not a championship team and a few games I’ve seen him incredibly spent. They’re going to accelerate his rookie wall.

Evan has been terrific and the twin/triple tower lineup has frustrated a number of teams; but there are other things going on here.

Consider ... Jarrett Allen finished the Raptors game with a +5 and Mobley with a -7. On the season, the Cavs are -3.1 with Mobley on the floor and +3.7 when he's off. That tells us he's not single handedly carrying the team on either end of the floor.

In the Raptors game it was a lot about Garland and Allen, but having a backup PG like Rubio has been a huge addition and with the defense holding teams to around 100ppg over the last 8 game ... sometimes all it takes is one or two guys to step up and have a big game on the offensive end. The bigs combined with the PG play provide a steady flow of offense against teams that can't match the size.

By the way, Evan has already landed wrong and had a pretty serious looking ankle twist a while back. It may have slowed him a bit or perhaps it's fatigue from the minutes/schedule, but it hasn't stopped him.

I have tracked Evan's On/Off numbers throughout the season and before he started piling up minutes and before Love went down at some point he had +9 On/Off and you could see the team fall off a cliff when he was off the floor.

Ever since the coach started playing him 40 minutes a game + that ankle injury things have no been the same as far as impact for him.

[JonFromVA]

Barnes has been fantastic in the way a normal great draft pick is ahead of the curve.

I’ve been really impressed with his scoring. He’s progressed much quicker than I expected.

Like most promising rookies, he isn’t the difference.

He missed a few games, team won anyway, and didn’t look any fundamentally different. Certainly not his fault they lost when he came back. They led most of it. They just have a much more established core with a number of guys who played on a championship team, and he’s not really a huge factor in winning or losing atm. Very very few rookies are.

Mobley is playing so many minutes as he’s transformative, and the very rare rookie who is the difference between winning and losing. It’s amazing to watch him contesting 3s and still being there when guys drive the lane, only for them to dribble back out rather than get it swatted. He’s altering the entire game.

Mobley has made life so much easier for Allen, beyond his own numbers. With that horrible defensive backcourt, it’s been amazing to see a patchwork roster of kids make sense. There has only been a handful of rookies who have ever had an impact like that.

He is going to get run down though with the minutes he’s logging. Cavs have to think more long term. He’s just so slim that it feel inevitable he’s just going to land wrong or something bad is going to happen at the end when exhausted given how much ground he covers. It’s about winning games, but need to keep him low 30s and just live with results at this point. It’s not a championship team and a few games I’ve seen him incredibly spent. They’re going to accelerate his rookie wall.

Ehh, this mostly comes down to Barnes having to play the 4 with Siakam injured whereas Mobley has the luxury of playing the 4 instead of the 5.

If Mobley had to play the 5 all game he would look worse. Same with Barnes having to be matched up with bigger players with no 3 point shot yet.

If Siakam was playing and you have Barnes, OG and Siakam out there with another center, well you put Mobley on Barnes and then who guards Siakam>

I do admit the Raptors still looked good without Barnes because Svi in the starting lineup provided spacing, but that still wouldn't solve the issue of FVV not being able to score inside with Mobley and Allen guarding the paint.

Biggest thing I noticed for offence is Barnes tends to create alot of his own shots while Mobley seemed to finish stuff people created for him (credit to his size for a 4), however Barnes is already 9th in the league in 2 point FG's made per game. Among the likes of Giannas, Jokic, Derozan, Butler, Ingram, Westbrook etc. And doing it at a solid 54% while having no 3-point shot yet.

So imagine if he develops one, with an actual triple threat game instead of people sagging off of him forcing him to shoot.

For me personally it's Mobley + Allen that is the difference maker, credit to Mobley's perimeter defence, but if he had to play like Barnes a position lower at the 5, it would be another story. Mobley against Embid? Ha. But it's what Barnes has to deal with right now.

(For the record, out of Barnes 61 FG's made so far, 43 are unassisted, or roughly 70%.

Barnes already has an NBA ready body and Mobley has always played PF and apparently has some interest in playing some SF.

fwiw, I don't get the argument that a player who creates his own shot is more valuable. I mean, certainly it can work out that way, but at this point it's not a determining factor.

[JonFromVA]

Barnes has been fantastic in the way a normal great draft pick is ahead of the curve.

I’ve been really impressed with his scoring. He’s progressed much quicker than I expected.

Like most promising rookies, he isn’t the difference.

He missed a few games, team won anyway, and didn’t look any fundamentally different. Certainly not his fault they lost when he came back. They led most of it. They just have a much more established core with a number of guys who played on a championship team, and he’s not really a huge factor in winning or losing atm. Very very few rookies are.

Mobley is playing so many minutes as he’s transformative, and the very rare rookie who is the difference between winning and losing. It’s amazing to watch him contesting 3s and still being there when guys drive the lane, only for them to dribble back out rather than get it swatted. He’s altering the entire game.

Mobley has made life so much easier for Allen, beyond his own numbers. With that horrible defensive backcourt, it’s been amazing to see a patchwork roster of kids make sense. There has only been a handful of rookies who have ever had an impact like that.

He is going to get run down though with the minutes he’s logging. Cavs have to think more long term. He’s just so slim that it feel inevitable he’s just going to land wrong or something bad is going to happen at the end when exhausted given how much ground he covers. It’s about winning games, but need to keep him low 30s and just live with results at this point. It’s not a championship team and a few games I’ve seen him incredibly spent. They’re going to accelerate his rookie wall.

Evan has been terrific and the twin/triple tower lineup has frustrated a number of teams; but there are other things going on here.

Consider ... Jarrett Allen finished the Raptors game with a +5 and Mobley with a -7. On the season, the Cavs are -3.1 with Mobley on the floor and +3.7 when he's off. That tells us he's not single handedly carrying the team on either end of the floor.

In the Raptors game it was a lot about Garland and Allen, but having a backup PG like Rubio has been a huge addition and with the defense holding teams to around 100ppg over the last 8 game ... sometimes all it takes is one or two guys to step up and have a big game on the offensive end. The bigs combined with the PG play provide a steady flow of offense against teams that can't match the size.

By the way, Evan has already landed wrong and had a pretty serious looking ankle twist a while back. It may have slowed him a bit or perhaps it's fatigue from the minutes/schedule, but it hasn't stopped him.

I have tracked Evan's On/Off numbers throughout the season and before he started piling up minutes and before Love went down at some point he had +9 On/Off and you could see the team fall off a cliff when he was off the floor.

Ever since the coach started playing him 40 minutes a game + that ankle injury things have no been the same as far as impact for him.

It's why I pointed out there's more going on here ... even with Love, Markkenen, and Okoro out the Cavs are still finding ways to win games. For instance, up until this last game Rubio was the only player to be have a positive +/- in every win.

[God Squad]

Mobley and Barnes can both be great. Same with many of the other prospects. Let's all just enjoy the ride and watch them develop.

[Vampirate]

In all complete honesty, I think Mobley should try to see if he can master the Sky Hook.

[RaptorPride]

Read on Twitter

[LoveMyRaps]

Scottie is so nice!

[Bruin]

Read on Twitter

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