Game 10: LA Lakers at Portland Trailblazers, 11/6/2021 7:30

[Landsberger]

low key this is on Lebron and AD too.

you simply cannot have core players that are always out.

Bron has a lot of miles on that body. IMHO he's hitting the wall. Father time is undefeated.

Davis was never really leading his NO teams to much of anything. He's a fantastic talent but he's always "dinged" up with some ailment.

This is our last swing for the fences in the LaBron era. If we're still in the bottom 25% of playoff teams I'd move Davis for value at the deadline. I'm not seeing a title contender, and without some massive improvement, a second round playoff team for that matter.

There is a lot to be said about having a couple Alphas and a supporting cast over a bunch of alphas and some boarder line G Leagues.

[euphorbus]

This starting lineup does not have a single three-point sharpshooter. They would have been better off with Monk or Carmelo in for Bradley.

Which is largely how they only managed to score 36 points in the first half. It was totally foreseeable on the part of the coaching staff. All that talk about "spacing" just went back into the tunnel.

[TwoStarz]

What we're seeing isn't a product of coaching nor is it the loss of LeBron. It's having Westbrook and Melo playing significant parts. These two have blinded people with their stats over the course of their careers. Neither is a leader and both fade when it gets hard. Winning games isn't the metric nor is defense with these two. It's always been mental toughness and the ability to think in dynamic situations. That's not a learned skill.

Injuries will happen with this group. We may settle in and get some defensive swagger but when it gets hard we still have Westbrook and Melo playing key roles.

AGREED! Melo has especially fooled people into thinking he was a good player or something. Career loser with a chuckers mentality that does very little else. Sure he'll win ya'll some games with his hot shooting here and there but he is not a long-term winning player. HAS never been in the NBA.

At least with westbrook people have started turning on him, Melo still gets way too much love for his ability lol

[TwoStarz]

low key this is on Lebron and AD too.

you simply cannot have core players that are always out.

Bron has a lot of miles on that body. IMHO he's hitting the wall. Father time is undefeated.

Davis was never really leading his NO teams to much of anything. He's a fantastic talent but he's always "dinged" up with some ailment.

This is our last swing for the fences in the LaBron era. If we're still in the bottom 25% of playoff teams I'd move Davis for value at the deadline. I'm not seeing a title contender, and without some massive improvement, a second round playoff team for that matter.

There is a lot to be said about having a couple Alphas and a supporting cast over a bunch of alphas and some boarder line G Leagues.

If the Lakers move AD, they would have the foresight of a genius. AD will not lead this team anywhere after lebron leaves, but to the lottery. We have no picks either so thats a joke.

There was a reason AD never led those pelican teams anywhere, and no it wasn't entirely roster construction. AD has never been that dude. Hes soft mentally and physically. Heck of a talent though, which is why he pisses you off even more.

Lakers were lucky they got one good season out of LBJ. A talent like AD can only win with a player like LBJ.

[tamaraw08]

What are our options on defense though?

Blame whoever constructed that roster. Not on Frank. If anyone i feel bad for Vogel. What is he supposed to do with all these matadors?

I believe we were first in defense last season. So what happened? We sold everyone who could play defense on the perimeter and got guys who couldn't play defense while at the same time not be good enough on offense to make up for it.

We got worse imo. We're not healthy though so we'll see in am month or so.

There’s definitely a lot of trash out there he’s having to work with, I’ll give you that. I don’t think he’s doing himself any favors with some of these lineups though.

I think you’re both correct. Like I’ve said before, we have 5-6 guys on our roster that are so bad on defense you’d need a defensive player of the year or two on the roster to make them serviceable on defense. Some of Vogel’s rotations are definitely bad. It’s like he’s throwing darts to see what sticks.

5-6, that many? So Westbrook, Melo, (Monk who barely plays).... Who else? I think Bazemore, Dwight, Bradley are good defenders IMO and Reaves works hard, and is not a bad defender too, then you add AD who is the anchor of the defense....
For the sake that you are right, that they have 5-6 bad defenders, whose fault is that?
Is Rob Pelinka that stupid not to consult Vogel with every player that he wanted to sign? I can see Frank not liking Westbrook's defense but I also imagine AD appeasing him by saying he'll play center to cover his mistakes and at the same time open up the offense by not playing a non shooting Center.

[Pythagoras]

There’s definitely a lot of trash out there he’s having to work with, I’ll give you that. I don’t think he’s doing himself any favors with some of these lineups though.

I think you’re both correct. Like I’ve said before, we have 5-6 guys on our roster that are so bad on defense you’d need a defensive player of the year or two on the roster to make them serviceable on defense. Some of Vogel’s rotations are definitely bad. It’s like he’s throwing darts to see what sticks.

5-6, that many? So Westbrook, Melo, (Monk who barely plays).... Who else? I think Bazemore, Dwight, Bradley are good defenders IMO and Reaves works hard, and is not a bad defender too, then you add AD who is the anchor of the defense....
For the sake that you are right, that they have 5-6 bad defenders, whose fault is that?
Is Rob Pelinka that stupid not to consult Vogel with every player that he wanted to sign? I can see Frank not liking Westbrook's defense but I also imagine AD appeasing him by saying he'll play center to cover his mistakes and at the same time open up the offense by not playing a non shooting Center.

Well, the top 11 players for the Lakers in MP this season are in order:

Westbrook
AD
Melo
Baze
Lebron
Monk
Reaves
Bradley
DJ
Howard
Rondo

I think all the bolded players are pretty useless defensively, which would be 5 of the top 11 rotation players. Lebron, Rob, and Jeannie share the blame for that IMO, but I feel like Vogel is worsening the problem. We need Melo and WB out there for their offense, and so Frank has got to do a better job with who he’s pairing those guys with.

Man, this team has absolutely no assets to improve the roster either, so we’re literally stuck hoping for something to shake loose on the buyout market.

[euphorbus]

They could still sign Demarcus Cousins and cut Deandre Jordan if they wanted to. The problem is that Jordan leads the team in rebounds and field goal percentage per 36 minutes. Also, the top two players in +/-, both per game and per 36 minutes, are Reaves and Monk, followed by LeBron James, although the fourth quarter of this last game skewed the numbers a bit. Anthony and Howard are the only other two players with a positive +/- per game this early in the season. Rajon Rondo sits at the bottom, just behind Avery Bradley.

Something to think about going forward.

[Ball so hard]

There’s definitely a lot of trash out there he’s having to work with, I’ll give you that. I don’t think he’s doing himself any favors with some of these lineups though.

I think you’re both correct. Like I’ve said before, we have 5-6 guys on our roster that are so bad on defense you’d need a defensive player of the year or two on the roster to make them serviceable on defense. Some of Vogel’s rotations are definitely bad. It’s like he’s throwing darts to see what sticks.

5-6, that many? So Westbrook, Melo, (Monk who barely plays).... Who else? I think Bazemore, Dwight, Bradley are good defenders IMO and Reaves works hard, and is not a bad defender too, then you add AD who is the anchor of the defense....
For the sake that you are right, that they have 5-6 bad defenders, whose fault is that?
Is Rob Pelinka that stupid not to consult Vogel with every player that he wanted to sign? I can see Frank not liking Westbrook's defense but I also imagine AD appeasing him by saying he'll play center to cover his mistakes and at the same time open up the offense by not playing a non shooting Center.

The three you mentioned plus Nunn ( I get that he hasn’t played but he’s still on the roster) and Rondo. Six may be a stretch. DJ is solid on the interior but useless is every other situation. What further compounds the issue is that Lebron doesn’t play defense 90 percent of the time.

How is AD anchoring our defense working out? He’s honestly part of the reason our defense is so awful. Is he playing anywhere close to being a defensive player of the year, an accolade he was previously talked about competing for? Someone on the general board previously mentioned that AD is not a good defender and at the time thought the argument was preposterous. I wouldn’t go as far as calling him a poor defender. However, I definitely think he’s a bit overrated on that end. He’s solid on switches and covering the pick and roll, but on the interior is where he really struggles.

I’d think every just about every GM consults with their coach on prospective moves. However, there a fine line between asking for inputs and actually using said inputs. Does anyone think Vogel has the clout to alter any moves if Lebron and co has already signed off. You previously mentioned he got a 1 year extension… why would management value much of anything he says.

[tamaraw08]

I think you’re both correct. Like I’ve said before, we have 5-6 guys on our roster that are so bad on defense you’d need a defensive player of the year or two on the roster to make them serviceable on defense. Some of Vogel’s rotations are definitely bad. It’s like he’s throwing darts to see what sticks.

5-6, that many? So Westbrook, Melo, (Monk who barely plays).... Who else? I think Bazemore, Dwight, Bradley are good defenders IMO and Reaves works hard, and is not a bad defender too, then you add AD who is the anchor of the defense....
For the sake that you are right, that they have 5-6 bad defenders, whose fault is that?
Is Rob Pelinka that stupid not to consult Vogel with every player that he wanted to sign? I can see Frank not liking Westbrook's defense but I also imagine AD appeasing him by saying he'll play center to cover his mistakes and at the same time open up the offense by not playing a non shooting Center.

The three you mentioned plus Nunn ( I get that he hasn’t played but he’s still on the roster) and Rondo. Six may be a stretch. DJ is solid on the interior but useless is every other situation. What further compounds the issue is that Lebron doesn’t play defense 90 percent of the time.

How is AD anchoring our defense working out? He’s honestly part of the reason our defense is so awful. Is he playing anywhere close to being a defensive player of the year, an accolade he was previously talked about competing for? Someone on the general board previously mentioned that AD is not a good defender and at the time thought the argument was preposterous. I wouldn’t go as far as calling him a poor defender. However, I definitely think he’s a bit overrated on that end. He’s solid on switches and covering the pick and roll, but on the interior is where he really struggles.

I’d think every just about every GM consults with their coach on prospective moves. However, there a fine line between asking for inputs and actually using said inputs. Does anyone think Vogel has the clout to alter any moves if Lebron and co has already signed off. You previously mentioned he got a 1 year extension… why would management value much of anything he says.

I think you and and another poster noticed that AD was a little "larger" esp at the start of the preseason. I think almost every veteran on that team skipped that first game except for Davis. It just seems to me that he really took it easy and let his body heal for 3-4 months, that he was out of shape and now he is like at 80-85%. He is working very hard but looks a little slow for me.
Nunn played 30 minutes/game last season with Miami where they placed 7th best on DRTG per BBREF and 9th per NBA.COM. If he is truly bad on defense and his team ranked high, then it makes sense that Spoelstra is a better defensive coach for knowing how to hide Kendrick on defense?
RE: roster moves, I think Lebron, AD and Pelinka have bigger voice for the main players like the Westbrook move, probably the THT bec he is a Klutch client but I would like to think that Rob gave concessions to Frank with regards to acquiring Bazemore and Bradley. Letting go of Caruso was a decision made my Jeannie to save some money and I'm betting Vogel hated it.

[zuju]

5 poor defender ? Easy

DJ, Melo, Westbrick, Monk, Ellington

Rondo plays little (comes up big in playoff on both end) and Nunn is questionable on that end too