76ers back to fining Ben Simmons

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Re: 76ers back to fining Ben Simmons 

Post#521 » by Sixersftw » Mon Nov 8, 2021 5:20 pm

CraftylikeaFox wrote:End to end, this Ben Simmons situation is the wildest thing we've ever seen regarding only one player. A franchise max player becomes so scared to shoot the basketball that he passes open a wide open dunk. His team loses a playoff series in big part because of this passiveness. The franchises coach, other superstar, and entire fanbase call him out on his play. He gets so offended by this that he ghosts the team altogether. Doesn't show up to practices, meetings etc. Tries to get traded, but the team doesn't trade him because his value went from superstar to role player in the span of a summer. Now because he didn't get traded he is claiming his mental health is too unmanageable. I feel like I'm watching a drama sitcom.


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Re: 76ers back to fining Ben Simmons 

Post#522 » by Ca » Mon Nov 8, 2021 5:58 pm

Can NBA Players go out on FMLA?

If so, and his mental illness is this debilitating, why hasn't he?

My guess is because either they can't or he wouldn't be getting the full value of his contract. So I kind of feel like the Sixers have a point here.
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Re: 76ers back to fining Ben Simmons 

Post#523 » by TheNewEra » Mon Nov 8, 2021 6:17 pm

chrisab123 wrote:
CptCrunch wrote:As I predicted in the first post, Rich Paul is going down the you can't fight mental health claim route. Now that Simmons has provided the Sixers with his mental health professionals. the Sixers are done. Pay the man or trade the man for cheap.

Now that Simmons is seeking treatment officially on paper, what are the Sixers/Moray gonna do? Prove something that cannot be proven?


Just deal him to LA and his mental health issues will magically go away. Any other location such as Boston or Minnesota and he's not reporting.



It’s been reported multiple times that Ben Simmons would take a trade to any team from Minnesota to Cleveland or Sacramento simply to get out of Philly
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Re: 76ers back to fining Ben Simmons 

Post#524 » by bbalnation » Mon Nov 8, 2021 6:20 pm

New info confirms that Ben & co have in fact provided his employer with the name of his therapist(s), further confirming this human has been seeking mental health support, with the Sixers being more involved than they needed to be.

In order to be a Psychologist, a person must go through the College of Psychology. In that College, there is a confidentiality mandate, and part of that confidentiality is not even RESPONDING when someone who is not your client reaches out to you, unless your client has given clear authorization before.

The Sixers are out of line (once again) for asking to speak to his therapists, and trying to manipulate public opinion without providing all the facts (in literally every single one of their "moves", PR or contract wise). This isn't some life or death scenario for you to NEED to figure out when he's going to play for you. He's told you, he doesn't want to and/or doesn't feel like he can, with a lot of it due to the environment that's been created and the organization continues to be harbor. We keep seeing it first hand as fans, now more clearly than before imo.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/264656/76ers-Increasingly-Frustrated-By-Ben-Simmons-Lack-Of-Clarity-On-Mental-Health-Assistance
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Re: 76ers back to fining Ben Simmons 

Post#525 » by Flash4thewin » Mon Nov 8, 2021 6:25 pm

TheNewEra wrote:
chrisab123 wrote:
CptCrunch wrote:As I predicted in the first post, Rich Paul is going down the you can't fight mental health claim route. Now that Simmons has provided the Sixers with his mental health professionals. the Sixers are done. Pay the man or trade the man for cheap.

Now that Simmons is seeking treatment officially on paper, what are the Sixers/Moray gonna do? Prove something that cannot be proven?


Just deal him to LA and his mental health issues will magically go away. Any other location such as Boston or Minnesota and he's not reporting.



It’s been reported multiple times that Ben Simmons would take a trade to any team from Minnesota to Cleveland or Sacramento simply to get out of Philly


:roll:
It’s been reported multiple times that he wanted to be traded to a Cali team. When it became clear that wasn’t going to happen it was leaked that he was open to play in other markets.
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Re: 76ers back to fining Ben Simmons 

Post#526 » by bigbreakfast » Mon Nov 8, 2021 6:30 pm

Ryoga Hibiki wrote:
bigbreakfast wrote:What? I don't think you understand how an union works, why would they sacrifice the superstar peers and how will the owners target the superstars specifically? The CBA applies to all players. The nbapa has to defend the interests of all players and providing ammunition for the owners is not something they want.

Good point about the lock out, there's also profit sharing involved in the cba.

Unions work as long as there's unity in the objectives of all participants.
But the priorities for a max player are not the same as for a midlevel-to-starter player as they are not the same for a journeyman fighting to stay in the league. The NBPA is actually very diverse in his components.
The kind of protection Simmons is trying to enjoy right now really is for a few dozens out like 500 players.
And the majority of those 500 made little money (for NBA standards) in their career and might not be willing to sacrifice much to protect the stars.
It's like workers going on strike for the CEO's bonus, it doesn't happen.
If the owners make it in a way that it's clear only the top 5% could eventually get affected by a new clause I am not sure the majority would risk a lockout for it.


it's unlikely the NBAPA would "sacrifice" its star players to avoid a lockout, but I think that's an entirely different discussion.

My original point was what Simmons and Klutch are doing/have done is absolutely not in favor of the NBAPA in context of the next CBA. They do not want this, this only makes their job harder. The hypothetical situation where they have to accept a clause that regulates the contracts of the top 5% to avoid a lock out is a bad outcome for them.
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Re: 76ers back to fining Ben Simmons 

Post#527 » by sikma42 » Mon Nov 8, 2021 6:31 pm

bebopdeluxe wrote:
CptCrunch wrote:As I predicted in the first post, Rich Paul is going down the you can't fight mental health claim route. Now that Simmons has provided the Sixers with his mental health professionals. the Sixers are done. Pay the man or trade the man for cheap.

Now that Simmons is seeking treatment officially on paper, what are the Sixers/Moray gonna do? Prove something that cannot be proven?


You have made the Sixers (and Sixerscan's) point:

"Now that Simmons is seeking treatment officially on paper"...

Do you KNOW how that sounds, bro?

And this isn't like when you were in 5th grade and all you had to do to get excused from school is bring a doctor's note to the teacher. This is a $147 MILLION DOLLAR CONTRACT. Ben SImmons can't just say "hey - I'm seeing someone SO GIVE ME MY MONEY".

Strength training and cardio work. Film sessions. Participating in walkthroughs to understand the offensive and defensive sets so WHEN HE IS READY TO PLAY he can step right in. These are all reasonable requests for the Sixers to make - to show that Ben is negotiating in good faith and is complying with basic "ready to return" activities.

The reason why Michele Roberts and the NBA PA are not out there publicly supporting Ben is he is NOT doing all of the things he needs to do in order to get the PA's support. It is also why you have not heard a peep out of Ben's camp about arbitration. If you are right, and all Ben has to do is seek treatment "officially on paper", they why aren't we hearing from Ben or Klutch about the $720K Ben was docked for missing the Detroit and Chicago games - huh?


I think you are being a bit harsh.

1) Sixer restarting the fines is a new thing. Going to arbitration is a long road and there are obviously many options before going there. The fact that YOU haven't heard anything from the NBAPA and Ben's camp means absolutely nothing. These things take time, nothing negatively changes re starting this process today vs next month (the money is in escrow).

2) Missing film sessions, walk-throughs, etc could be reasonable based on professional recommendation. You are so fixated on the money, but that shouldn't affect the doctor's recommendation as to what is the best course of action/treatment for his mental health at this time.

I don't understand the rush to jump out ahead of necessary facts. imo if Ben Simmons is 1) going to a reputable therapist through the NBAPA and 2) providing documentation from the doc that he is attending the prescribed sessions ---> then I think it's a reasonable response.


Just looking from the outside...I've always questioned whether Simmons had some mental health issues. And this could simply be a case of not trusting the Sixers (based on their history on a fool would) and not wanting to go public with these issues in detail. Luckily, he may not have to go into to much detail with them.
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Re: 76ers back to fining Ben Simmons 

Post#528 » by TheNewEra » Mon Nov 8, 2021 6:33 pm

Flash4thewin wrote:
TheNewEra wrote:
chrisab123 wrote:
Just deal him to LA and his mental health issues will magically go away. Any other location such as Boston or Minnesota and he's not reporting.



It’s been reported multiple times that Ben Simmons would take a trade to any team from Minnesota to Cleveland or Sacramento simply to get out of Philly



:roll:
It’s been reported multiple times that he wanted to be traded to a Cali team. When it became clear that wasn’t going to happen it was leaked that he was open to play in other markets.


Those were his preference but they made it very clear early on they were okay going anywhere out of Philly
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Re: 76ers back to fining Ben Simmons 

Post#529 » by JimmyPlopper » Mon Nov 8, 2021 6:35 pm

Tatum and Embiid should play together. Give Embiid for Brown. Keep Simmons.
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Re: 76ers back to fining Ben Simmons 

Post#530 » by bigbreakfast » Mon Nov 8, 2021 6:42 pm

Yoshun wrote:
bigbreakfast wrote:
jstross wrote:So, sucking under pressure is now a mental illness? I wouldn't go that far. Anxiety, performance issues? I guess one could generalize that as mental illness, but then 80% of the country suffers from mental illness. Most still go to work.


the term mental health has been reduced and diluted from a clinical term that carries with it the weight of experience and knowledge of professionals into something that now carries with it very little meaning... having a bad day is now a mental health issue... apparently being an ass and getting called out on it is a mental health issue

so many posters here throw that term like they personally made a diagnosis on Simmons... while he's living the young socialite life and posting for millions of followers on social media.... real struggles that guy's going through


Your entire post is clearly made under the assumption that Simmons is living the high life and thus can't have mental health struggles. It's hard to argue with that kind of thinking because it's just not true.


Let's be realistic here, we're all part of the peanut gallery making semi-informed opinions on this case, but Simmons specifically has always had issues with his character and commitment, preNBA, collegiate and now. He has always shrunk away from shouldering responsibility and facing critique. All of a sudden he has mental health issues and can't play? Most of the arguments in this thread were made under the assumption that he has real, pathological mental health issues when the sum of the facts would suggest that is not the case. If anything, crying wolf with mental health is doing serious disservice to those with real mental health issues.
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Re: 76ers back to fining Ben Simmons 

Post#531 » by bebopdeluxe » Mon Nov 8, 2021 6:43 pm

sikma42 wrote:
bebopdeluxe wrote:
CptCrunch wrote:As I predicted in the first post, Rich Paul is going down the you can't fight mental health claim route. Now that Simmons has provided the Sixers with his mental health professionals. the Sixers are done. Pay the man or trade the man for cheap.

Now that Simmons is seeking treatment officially on paper, what are the Sixers/Moray gonna do? Prove something that cannot be proven?


You have made the Sixers (and Sixerscan's) point:

"Now that Simmons is seeking treatment officially on paper"...

Do you KNOW how that sounds, bro?

And this isn't like when you were in 5th grade and all you had to do to get excused from school is bring a doctor's note to the teacher. This is a $147 MILLION DOLLAR CONTRACT. Ben SImmons can't just say "hey - I'm seeing someone SO GIVE ME MY MONEY".

Strength training and cardio work. Film sessions. Participating in walkthroughs to understand the offensive and defensive sets so WHEN HE IS READY TO PLAY he can step right in. These are all reasonable requests for the Sixers to make - to show that Ben is negotiating in good faith and is complying with basic "ready to return" activities.

The reason why Michele Roberts and the NBA PA are not out there publicly supporting Ben is he is NOT doing all of the things he needs to do in order to get the PA's support. It is also why you have not heard a peep out of Ben's camp about arbitration. If you are right, and all Ben has to do is seek treatment "officially on paper", they why aren't we hearing from Ben or Klutch about the $720K Ben was docked for missing the Detroit and Chicago games - huh?


I think you are being a bit harsh.

1) Sixer restarting the fines is a new thing. Going to arbitration is a long road and there are obviously many options before going there. The fact that YOU haven't heard anything from the NBAPA and Ben's camp means absolutely nothing. These things take time, nothing negatively changes re starting this process today vs next month (the money is in escrow).

2) Missing film sessions, walk-throughs, etc could be reasonable based on professional recommendation. You are so fixated on the money, but that shouldn't affect the doctor's recommendation as to what is the best course of action/treatment for his mental health at this time.

I don't understand the rush to jump out ahead of necessary facts. imo if Ben Simmons is 1) going to a reputable therapist through the NBAPA and 2) providing documentation from the doc that he is attending the prescribed sessions ---> then I think it's a reasonable response.


This is a reasonable post. I would assume, however, that the Sixers are relying to their interpretation of the mechanisms of the CBA that cover this situation. They would not claw back close to $3 million of salary if they are not in a pretty good legal position.

I think it is also notable that the Sixers re-started the clock the day after Simmons and Morey met last week. My guess (which is all it can be, as I was not a fly on the wall) is that Morey put out several different avenues that Ben could take that would respect Ben continuing to get the mental health treatment he needs, while continuing some kind of "ready to play" activities as well. While going through actual shootarounds or film sessions could theoretically be something that would conflict with the treatment he is getting, there are still other things Simmons could do (such as team-supervised strength or cardio training) that could fall under this "ready to play' clause. The fact that the Sixers started the game fines one day after that meeting between Simmons and Morey would suggest that Simmons was not willing to do ANYTHING that the team was asking for.

As someone who has been in active therapy for over a decade (as well as someone with a degree in Psychology), it is not hard for me to believe that Simmons has an anxiety disorder that needs attention. However, he is contractually obligated to the Sixers for FOUR seasons. While it sucks donkey ding-dongs that the Sixers cap is tied to Simmons, I am fine with not paying the guy if he chooses to not adopt any reasonable "ready to play" protocols, even if it lasts the entire season. The team is playing well without him. I would guess that the Sixers could probably come up with a reasonable deal in front of the 2022 draft.
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Re: 76ers back to fining Ben Simmons 

Post#532 » by sikma42 » Mon Nov 8, 2021 6:50 pm

bebopdeluxe wrote:
sikma42 wrote:
bebopdeluxe wrote:
You have made the Sixers (and Sixerscan's) point:

"Now that Simmons is seeking treatment officially on paper"...

Do you KNOW how that sounds, bro?

And this isn't like when you were in 5th grade and all you had to do to get excused from school is bring a doctor's note to the teacher. This is a $147 MILLION DOLLAR CONTRACT. Ben SImmons can't just say "hey - I'm seeing someone SO GIVE ME MY MONEY".

Strength training and cardio work. Film sessions. Participating in walkthroughs to understand the offensive and defensive sets so WHEN HE IS READY TO PLAY he can step right in. These are all reasonable requests for the Sixers to make - to show that Ben is negotiating in good faith and is complying with basic "ready to return" activities.

The reason why Michele Roberts and the NBA PA are not out there publicly supporting Ben is he is NOT doing all of the things he needs to do in order to get the PA's support. It is also why you have not heard a peep out of Ben's camp about arbitration. If you are right, and all Ben has to do is seek treatment "officially on paper", they why aren't we hearing from Ben or Klutch about the $720K Ben was docked for missing the Detroit and Chicago games - huh?


I think you are being a bit harsh.

1) Sixer restarting the fines is a new thing. Going to arbitration is a long road and there are obviously many options before going there. The fact that YOU haven't heard anything from the NBAPA and Ben's camp means absolutely nothing. These things take time, nothing negatively changes re starting this process today vs next month (the money is in escrow).

2) Missing film sessions, walk-throughs, etc could be reasonable based on professional recommendation. You are so fixated on the money, but that shouldn't affect the doctor's recommendation as to what is the best course of action/treatment for his mental health at this time.

I don't understand the rush to jump out ahead of necessary facts. imo if Ben Simmons is 1) going to a reputable therapist through the NBAPA and 2) providing documentation from the doc that he is attending the prescribed sessions ---> then I think it's a reasonable response.


This is a reasonable post. I would assume, however, that the Sixers are relying to their interpretation of the mechanisms of the CBA that cover this situation. They would not claw back close to $3 million of salary if they are not in a pretty good legal position.

I think it is also notable that the Sixers re-started the clock the day after Simmons and Morey met last week. My guess (which is all it can be, as I was not a fly on the wall) is that Morey put out several different avenues that Ben could take that would respect Ben continuing to get the mental health treatment he needs, while continuing some kind of "ready to play" activities as well. While going through actual shootarounds or film sessions could theoretically be something that would conflict with the treatment he is getting, there are still other things Simmons could do (such as team-supervised strength or cardio training) that could fall under this "ready to play' clause. The fact that the Sixers started the game fines one day after that meeting between Simmons and Morey would suggest that Simmons was not willing to do ANYTHING that the team was asking for.

As someone who has been in active therapy for over a decade (as well as someone with a degree in Psychology), it is not hard for me to believe that Simmons has an anxiety disorder that needs attention. However, he is contractually obligated to the Sixers for FOUR seasons. While it sucks donkey ding-dongs that the Sixers cap is tied to Simmons, I am fine with not paying the guy if he chooses to not adopt any reasonable "ready to play" protocols, even if it lasts the entire season. The team is playing well without him. I would guess that the Sixers could probably come up with a reasonable deal in front of the 2022 draft.


I think the wrench that get thrown into this is that 76ers behavior may be a cause or trigger for his mental health issues. So, requiring that he stay in shape or continue to work on his game may be reasonable, but doing so away from the team may be necessary. You don't want every smile/comment sent back to management from people he encounters. If they wanna wait the entire season that's fine ---> they will eventually pay him imo. They might even get a nudge from Adam Silver.
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Re: 76ers back to fining Ben Simmons 

Post#533 » by bebopdeluxe » Mon Nov 8, 2021 7:01 pm

sikma42 wrote:
bebopdeluxe wrote:
sikma42 wrote:
I think you are being a bit harsh.

1) Sixer restarting the fines is a new thing. Going to arbitration is a long road and there are obviously many options before going there. The fact that YOU haven't heard anything from the NBAPA and Ben's camp means absolutely nothing. These things take time, nothing negatively changes re starting this process today vs next month (the money is in escrow).

2) Missing film sessions, walk-throughs, etc could be reasonable based on professional recommendation. You are so fixated on the money, but that shouldn't affect the doctor's recommendation as to what is the best course of action/treatment for his mental health at this time.

I don't understand the rush to jump out ahead of necessary facts. imo if Ben Simmons is 1) going to a reputable therapist through the NBAPA and 2) providing documentation from the doc that he is attending the prescribed sessions ---> then I think it's a reasonable response.


This is a reasonable post. I would assume, however, that the Sixers are relying to their interpretation of the mechanisms of the CBA that cover this situation. They would not claw back close to $3 million of salary if they are not in a pretty good legal position.

I think it is also notable that the Sixers re-started the clock the day after Simmons and Morey met last week. My guess (which is all it can be, as I was not a fly on the wall) is that Morey put out several different avenues that Ben could take that would respect Ben continuing to get the mental health treatment he needs, while continuing some kind of "ready to play" activities as well. While going through actual shootarounds or film sessions could theoretically be something that would conflict with the treatment he is getting, there are still other things Simmons could do (such as team-supervised strength or cardio training) that could fall under this "ready to play' clause. The fact that the Sixers started the game fines one day after that meeting between Simmons and Morey would suggest that Simmons was not willing to do ANYTHING that the team was asking for.

As someone who has been in active therapy for over a decade (as well as someone with a degree in Psychology), it is not hard for me to believe that Simmons has an anxiety disorder that needs attention. However, he is contractually obligated to the Sixers for FOUR seasons. While it sucks donkey ding-dongs that the Sixers cap is tied to Simmons, I am fine with not paying the guy if he chooses to not adopt any reasonable "ready to play" protocols, even if it lasts the entire season. The team is playing well without him. I would guess that the Sixers could probably come up with a reasonable deal in front of the 2022 draft.


I think the wrench that get thrown into this is that 76ers behavior may be a cause or trigger for his mental health issues. So, requiring that he stay in shape or continue to work on his game may be reasonable, but doing so away from the team may be necessary. You don't want every smile/comment sent back to management from people he encounters. If they wanna wait the entire season that's fine ---> they will eventually pay him imo. They might even get a nudge from Adam Silver.


I think there is no way that he sees the money he is losing right now. NO WAY.

The owner of the Sixers is one of the most successful hedge fund managers in the world. I am sure that he has some excellent lawyers who specialize in contract law at his disposal. I am also sure that both the league office and the NBA PA were made well aware of what the Sixers were going to do before doing it. If you think that the Sixers "will eventually pay him", then where is the request from the NBA PA or Klutch for arbitration?
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Re: 76ers back to fining Ben Simmons 

Post#534 » by bebopdeluxe » Mon Nov 8, 2021 7:08 pm

bebopdeluxe wrote:
sikma42 wrote:
bebopdeluxe wrote:
This is a reasonable post. I would assume, however, that the Sixers are relying to their interpretation of the mechanisms of the CBA that cover this situation. They would not claw back close to $3 million of salary if they are not in a pretty good legal position.

I think it is also notable that the Sixers re-started the clock the day after Simmons and Morey met last week. My guess (which is all it can be, as I was not a fly on the wall) is that Morey put out several different avenues that Ben could take that would respect Ben continuing to get the mental health treatment he needs, while continuing some kind of "ready to play" activities as well. While going through actual shootarounds or film sessions could theoretically be something that would conflict with the treatment he is getting, there are still other things Simmons could do (such as team-supervised strength or cardio training) that could fall under this "ready to play' clause. The fact that the Sixers started the game fines one day after that meeting between Simmons and Morey would suggest that Simmons was not willing to do ANYTHING that the team was asking for.

As someone who has been in active therapy for over a decade (as well as someone with a degree in Psychology), it is not hard for me to believe that Simmons has an anxiety disorder that needs attention. However, he is contractually obligated to the Sixers for FOUR seasons. While it sucks donkey ding-dongs that the Sixers cap is tied to Simmons, I am fine with not paying the guy if he chooses to not adopt any reasonable "ready to play" protocols, even if it lasts the entire season. The team is playing well without him. I would guess that the Sixers could probably come up with a reasonable deal in front of the 2022 draft.


I think the wrench that get thrown into this is that 76ers behavior may be a cause or trigger for his mental health issues. So, requiring that he stay in shape or continue to work on his game may be reasonable, but doing so away from the team may be necessary. You don't want every smile/comment sent back to management from people he encounters. If they wanna wait the entire season that's fine ---> they will eventually pay him imo. They might even get a nudge from Adam Silver.


I think there is no way that he sees the money he is losing right now. NO WAY.

The owner of the Sixers is one of the most successful hedge fund managers in the world. I am sure that he has some excellent lawyers who specialize in contract law at his disposal. I am also sure that both the league office and the NBA PA were made well aware of what the Sixers were going to do before doing it. If you think that the Sixers "will eventually pay him", then where is the request from the NBA PA or Klutch for arbitration?

And Adam Silver stepping in on Simmons' behalf? Why would he do that? He has already come out, upon direct questioning on the Simmons' situation, saying "that's why we have contracts." As I said, the league office knows the deal here. With public opinion squarely against Simmons right now IMO (as I believe it should be, given how poorly Ben and Klutch handled this jabroni holdout), the league isn't going to force the Sixers into anything. Lastly, there are probably 20-25 NBA team owners (the ones not in LA, NYC, GS, MIA) who are hoping that the Sixers hold firm here. And from the NBA PA's perspective, they probably just want this to all go away - just have Morey trade Simmons and be done with it. Michele Roberts sees that light in the tunnel - and it is a lockout coming right down the players' throats...one that Ben Simmons will be the poster boy for, and one where the owners will win the battle of public opinion, IMO.
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Re: 76ers back to fining Ben Simmons 

Post#535 » by Nuntius » Mon Nov 8, 2021 7:11 pm

bigbreakfast wrote:Let's be realistic here, we're all part of the peanut gallery making semi-informed opinions on this case, but Simmons specifically has always had issues with his character and commitment, preNBA, collegiate and now. He has always shrunk away from shouldering responsibility and facing critique. All of a sudden he has mental health issues and can't play? Most of the arguments in this thread were made under the assumption that he has real, pathological mental health issues when the sum of the facts would suggest that is not the case. If anything, crying wolf with mental health is doing serious disservice to those with real mental health issues.


If what you're saying about Simmons is true (that he has always shrunk away from shouldering responsibility and facing critique) then it's definitely not all of a sudden. In fact, someone could easily claim that these were the results of an underlying mental health condition that was never diagnosed or treated.

Obviously, I'm not a doctor and I'm not going to pretend that I know anything about such diagnoses but I also cannot see how what you said can be used as an argument against Simmons' potentially having a mental health condition.
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76ers back to fining Ben Simmons 

Post#536 » by sikma42 » Mon Nov 8, 2021 7:23 pm

bebopdeluxe wrote:
sikma42 wrote:
bebopdeluxe wrote:
This is a reasonable post. I would assume, however, that the Sixers are relying to their interpretation of the mechanisms of the CBA that cover this situation. They would not claw back close to $3 million of salary if they are not in a pretty good legal position.

I think it is also notable that the Sixers re-started the clock the day after Simmons and Morey met last week. My guess (which is all it can be, as I was not a fly on the wall) is that Morey put out several different avenues that Ben could take that would respect Ben continuing to get the mental health treatment he needs, while continuing some kind of "ready to play" activities as well. While going through actual shootarounds or film sessions could theoretically be something that would conflict with the treatment he is getting, there are still other things Simmons could do (such as team-supervised strength or cardio training) that could fall under this "ready to play' clause. The fact that the Sixers started the game fines one day after that meeting between Simmons and Morey would suggest that Simmons was not willing to do ANYTHING that the team was asking for.

As someone who has been in active therapy for over a decade (as well as someone with a degree in Psychology), it is not hard for me to believe that Simmons has an anxiety disorder that needs attention. However, he is contractually obligated to the Sixers for FOUR seasons. While it sucks donkey ding-dongs that the Sixers cap is tied to Simmons, I am fine with not paying the guy if he chooses to not adopt any reasonable "ready to play" protocols, even if it lasts the entire season. The team is playing well without him. I would guess that the Sixers could probably come up with a reasonable deal in front of the 2022 draft.


I think the wrench that get thrown into this is that 76ers behavior may be a cause or trigger for his mental health issues. So, requiring that he stay in shape or continue to work on his game may be reasonable, but doing so away from the team may be necessary. You don't want every smile/comment sent back to management from people he encounters. If they wanna wait the entire season that's fine ---> they will eventually pay him imo. They might even get a nudge from Adam Silver.


I think there is no way that he sees the money he is losing right now. NO WAY.

The owner of the Sixers is one of the most successful hedge fund managers in the world. I am sure that he has some excellent lawyers who specialize in contract law at his disposal. I am also sure that both the league office and the NBA PA were made well aware of what the Sixers were going to do before doing it. If you think that the Sixers "will eventually pay him", then where is the request from the NBA PA or Klutch for arbitration?

This is not how these things work. Going to arbitration is a last resort. You don’t just jump there until you’ve exercised all other options. They’ve given the 76ers the names of the doctors, what exactly do the 76ers want? Interesting they have leaked a lot of stuff but have been very vague on that. Do they want to be at the epicenter of a mental health debate?

Also, the idea that he is a hedge fund manager and this in the right because he must following the guidance of top lawyers is extremely faulty for several reasons.


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Re: 76ers back to fining Ben Simmons 

Post#537 » by bebopdeluxe » Mon Nov 8, 2021 7:28 pm

sikma42 wrote:
bebopdeluxe wrote:
sikma42 wrote:
I think the wrench that get thrown into this is that 76ers behavior may be a cause or trigger for his mental health issues. So, requiring that he stay in shape or continue to work on his game may be reasonable, but doing so away from the team may be necessary. You don't want every smile/comment sent back to management from people he encounters. If they wanna wait the entire season that's fine ---> they will eventually pay him imo. They might even get a nudge from Adam Silver.


I think there is no way that he sees the money he is losing right now. NO WAY.

The owner of the Sixers is one of the most successful hedge fund managers in the world. I am sure that he has some excellent lawyers who specialize in contract law at his disposal. I am also sure that both the league office and the NBA PA were made well aware of what the Sixers were going to do before doing it. If you think that the Sixers "will eventually pay him", then where is the request from the NBA PA or Klutch for arbitration?

This is not how these things work. Going to arbitration is a last resort. You don’t just jump there until you’ve exercised all other options.

Also, the idea that he is a hedge fund manager and this in the right because he must following the guidance of top lawyers is extremely faulty for several reasons.


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I am not saying that because Josh Harris is a successful hedge fund manager who has top contract lawyers means HE IS IN THE RIGHT. I am saying that the step the Sixers have taken in clawing back Simmons' game checks was done with a great deal of thought as to its implementation.

Again - one needs to go not further than Adam Silver's "that is why we have contracts" quote in response to a direct question about the Simmons situation to confirm that the Sixers did their homework here.
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Re: 76ers back to fining Ben Simmons 

Post#538 » by MrBigShot » Mon Nov 8, 2021 8:45 pm

Dunno why it's so controversial that an organization paying you $30 million dollars a year would be interested in documentation/info to verify the severity of your health issues if you want them to keep paying you.

Him giving them some names of NBPA professionals means virtually nothing. Any player could go see a NBPA professional tomorrow. Burden is on Simmons to provide documentation to the Sixers he is mentally not ready to play. Brief doctors note from a neutral party with very broad/general info, that's all he has to do.
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Re: 76ers back to fining Ben Simmons 

Post#539 » by DusterBuster » Mon Nov 8, 2021 8:54 pm

MrBigShot wrote:Dunno why it's so controversial that an organization paying you $30 million dollars a year would be interested in documentation/info to verify the severity of your health issues if you want them to keep paying you.

Him giving them some names of NBPA professionals means virtually nothing. Any player could go see a NBPA professional tomorrow. Burden is on Simmons to provide documentation to the Sixers he is mentally not ready to play. Brief doctors note from a neutral party with very broad/general info, that's all he has to do.


Seriously. It’s pretty insane the people who think the employer literally should have zero say/oversight here.
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Re: 76ers back to fining Ben Simmons 

Post#540 » by SpreeChokeJob » Mon Nov 8, 2021 9:05 pm

DusterBuster wrote:
MrBigShot wrote:Dunno why it's so controversial that an organization paying you $30 million dollars a year would be interested in documentation/info to verify the severity of your health issues if you want them to keep paying you.

Him giving them some names of NBPA professionals means virtually nothing. Any player could go see a NBPA professional tomorrow. Burden is on Simmons to provide documentation to the Sixers he is mentally not ready to play. Brief doctors note from a neutral party with very broad/general info, that's all he has to do.


Seriously. It’s pretty insane the people who think the employer literally should have zero say/oversight here.


Standard practice to get everything documented. Only reason he wouldn’t want to is to leave legal trail that shows that he is capable of playing; he just doesn’t want to. But he still wants to be paid.

If he just took unpaid sabbatical until he got traded, this wouldn’t be an issue. The problem is wanting to be paid while not showing he is incapable.

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