The Tomjas Thread

[Negrodamus]

The Wolves are the most logical destination for Simmons, given his fit with Towns and the fact he gets isolated far away where no fan base will bother him

But they have nothing the Sixers can entice. Therefor a third and maybe fourth team need to be found.

I've said it before, but if I'm the Sixers, I ask for a Paul George level haul for him since this is a trade for not only Ben, but also to walk Towns away from the "demand trade" ledge. They are in a more dire situation and in a worse position of leverage than many of the other teams we're talking to.

[GutUNC]

It's enjoyable to see the friction within the Celtics locker room, but there's no way they make Brown available. I am not saying they shouldn't (Brown and Tatum has too many overlapping skills), but given their history they've always been conservative with their top assets.

The Wolves have lost 5 in a row, resulting in a 3-6 record after starting on a high note. They need a shake-up badly and the fit between Towns and Simmons remains intriguing.

I still think that the best way to utilize Embiid is surrounding him with shooters with a quick trigger. Russell remains a buy-low candidate for me. If you prevent him from playing hero-ball and make him move off the ball and attack close-outs, I think he can become a catalyst in an efficient offense.

Since his perceived is relatively low, I think we would be able to some really decent assets in a potential trade as well.
PHI: Simmons + Milton
MIN: Russell + McDaniels + 2023 1st round pick (top 5 protected)

Perhaps sneak Beasley into this trade as well, but I haven't seen enough of him to value his defense. That should certainly be a priority with Russell's deficiencies.

Russell and his contract are a less efficient Tobias Harris, but smaller and even worse defensively. Simmons (plus a player) for a negative value contract, a struggling young player and a protected 1st is worse then the Smart++ suggestion.

Except Harris doesn't shoot and can't create offense for himself at the perimeter, so basically they're nothing alike.

I am not sure whether Russell can help us (perhaps I just see him on his good days), but I would certainly try to acquire a high volume shot creator instead of another defensive specialist. It probably has to be a more high-risk/high-upside player, instead of Jaylen Brown, Zach Lavine, etc.

What I do know of Russell-esque players is that people always point out their deficiencies (efficiency, defense) until they make another step and suddenly they're way too valuable to acquire.

DLO is in his 7th season at age 25 - when are you thinking this "step" is going to get here?

[kuclas]

Russell and his contract are a less efficient Tobias Harris, but smaller and even worse defensively. Simmons (plus a player) for a negative value contract, a struggling young player and a protected 1st is worse then the Smart++ suggestion.

Except Harris doesn't shoot and can't create offense for himself at the perimeter, so basically they're nothing alike.

I am not sure whether Russell can help us (perhaps I just see him on his good days), but I would certainly try to acquire a high volume shot creator instead of another defensive specialist. It probably has to be a more high-risk/high-upside player, instead of Jaylen Brown, Zach Lavine, etc.

What I do know of Russell-esque players is that people always point out their deficiencies (efficiency, defense) until they make another step and suddenly they're way too valuable to acquire.

DLO is in his 7th season at age 25 - when are you thinking this "step" is going to get here?

Dlo isn’t any good. When will people realize this. His is high volume inefficient player who got exposed when Simmons decided to lock him down in playoffs when he was with nets.

People have this lasting image of Simmons in playoffs. They have poor memory how bad Russell looked in 2019 playoffs. So just focus on regular season with the likes of Russell fox etc.

Minnesota has another problem on their hands. Unless Edwards gets hot again. He is looking like Andrew Wiggins 2.0. High volume ineffienct chucker who doesn’t rebound and doesn’t assist.

Edward’s value will be severely depressed if he keeps playing like this as well

In a nutshell. Towns may be Minnesota best asset. And not Russell or Edwards. At least you get efficient scoring from towns.

[phiphan]

It's enjoyable to see the friction within the Celtics locker room, but there's no way they make Brown available. I am not saying they shouldn't (Brown and Tatum has too many overlapping skills), but given their history they've always been conservative with their top assets.

The Wolves have lost 5 in a row, resulting in a 3-6 record after starting on a high note. They need a shake-up badly and the fit between Towns and Simmons remains intriguing.

I still think that the best way to utilize Embiid is surrounding him with shooters with a quick trigger. Russell remains a buy-low candidate for me. If you prevent him from playing hero-ball and make him move off the ball and attack close-outs, I think he can become a catalyst in an efficient offense.

Since his perceived is relatively low, I think we would be able to some really decent assets in a potential trade as well.
PHI: Simmons + Milton
MIN: Russell + McDaniels + 2023 1st round pick (top 5 protected)

Perhaps sneak Beasley into this trade as well, but I haven't seen enough of him to value his defense. That should certainly be a priority with Russell's deficiencies.

Do you think Russell can handle being the lead guard when it's half-court crunch time in the playoffs? I think he could have a lot of success playing off of Embiid, but I'm not sure he solves that particular issue. And after you fire your Simmons bullet, you have no bullets left in the chamber to get that guy.

[Mik317]

The Wolves problem isnt their "big 3" but rather the fact that everyone else on the roster is ass or playing like ass. They get like maybe 4 points a reb and solid defense from their starting PF most nights lol.

But like us they are capped out and at the end of their rope. Our scrapyard dudes are thriving...theirs not so much.

[Negrodamus]

DLO theoretically fits what we're currently doing in this post-Ben landscape. Ballhandler, volume threes, excellent court vision.

That might be great for regular season purposes, but he'll be a liability in the playoffs, still.

[Kolkmania]

Russell and his contract are a less efficient Tobias Harris, but smaller and even worse defensively. Simmons (plus a player) for a negative value contract, a struggling young player and a protected 1st is worse then the Smart++ suggestion.

Except Harris doesn't shoot and can't create offense for himself at the perimeter, so basically they're nothing alike.

I am not sure whether Russell can help us (perhaps I just see him on his good days), but I would certainly try to acquire a high volume shot creator instead of another defensive specialist. It probably has to be a more high-risk/high-upside player, instead of Jaylen Brown, Zach Lavine, etc.

What I do know of Russell-esque players is that people always point out their deficiencies (efficiency, defense) until they make another step and suddenly they're way too valuable to acquire.

DLO is in his 7th season at age 25 - when are you thinking this "step" is going to get here?

Look, of course I am not certain that he's ever going to make another step. However, it is certainly not uncommon for perimeter players to become a more "winning player" after 5/6/7 seasons.

Zach LaVine made his efficiency step in season 7 (age 25), Bradley Beal started to make shots at the basket in season 6 (age 25), Mike Conley shot his first above TS% season in season 7/9 (age 27), etc.

Point is, that there are very few guard in the NBA who consistently score more than 25 points per 36 minutes on high volume and league average efficiency. Russell is already valuable on the offensive end in my opinion. Question is whether he will be playable on the defensive end when he's surrounded by legit NBA defenders for the first time in his career.

[Mik317]

that really is the key too.

Embiid can cover for a lot of bad defenders and Dlo wouldn't be the main option. So I wouldn't be too down on taking that chance....of course the Wolves would have to add incentives to it tho. Picks on Picks on Picks lol.

I remember really like Dlo that draft too so some old takes might finally be justified yo.

[Kolkmania]

It's enjoyable to see the friction within the Celtics locker room, but there's no way they make Brown available. I am not saying they shouldn't (Brown and Tatum has too many overlapping skills), but given their history they've always been conservative with their top assets.

The Wolves have lost 5 in a row, resulting in a 3-6 record after starting on a high note. They need a shake-up badly and the fit between Towns and Simmons remains intriguing.

I still think that the best way to utilize Embiid is surrounding him with shooters with a quick trigger. Russell remains a buy-low candidate for me. If you prevent him from playing hero-ball and make him move off the ball and attack close-outs, I think he can become a catalyst in an efficient offense.

Since his perceived is relatively low, I think we would be able to some really decent assets in a potential trade as well.
PHI: Simmons + Milton
MIN: Russell + McDaniels + 2023 1st round pick (top 5 protected)

Perhaps sneak Beasley into this trade as well, but I haven't seen enough of him to value his defense. That should certainly be a priority with Russell's deficiencies.

Do you think Russell can handle being the lead guard when it's half-court crunch time in the playoffs? I think he could have a lot of success playing off of Embiid, but I'm not sure he solves that particular issue. And after you fire your Simmons bullet, you have no bullets left in the chamber to get that guy.

No I think he lacks the burst to be a full-time primary ball handler. However, since Russell has no problems with shooting off the catch (I prefer him in that role even) I think he fits with Embiid on offense. He can run around screens and mix it up with some P&R's in which he will shoot a lot of threes off the dribble.

I am far from sure whether that brings us to championship level. However, none of the realistic trade targets are. If we remain competitive and keep increasing the value of our assets, we can include Russell in a future trade for a superstar.

[elchengue20]

The problem in Boston is both Brown and Taytum are forwards with little playmaking ability. They cant create for others.When also your PG is Marcus Smart things can get ugly.

In the past they had Kemba who was some kind of a floor general (even when its not his speciality) and a great coach in Stevens who helped to get things going. Simmons actually makes some kind of sense for them, at least hes a willing passer.

For the same reason i dont think Brown is an ideal fit here, we somewhat still lack a creator in the halfcourt. I rather have a guard like Beal or Lillard. But hey, given our situation, i think it would be great to get a twoway star like Brown entering his prime on a good cotract. We figure out the PG position later.

They’re suffering the same problem with the Clips.

Whereas you have your wings running your offense while most times they’d have a lot of this gray area scoring opportunities off a 2 man game that ends up into a lot of pull up jumpers in the mid range area.

When its falling, its hard to stop. But given its low FTr and 3PTr, you have little margin for error and you have to score on it efficiently like how Durant, Jordan or prime Kawhi does it. Im talking about ATG mid range scoring.

Tatum is not that.

I believe what Celts is trying to do, if this Ben rumor is real. Is they’d restructure they’re offense into a more balance of collective offense and ISO offense. Similar to what we have now. Drive and draw offense then if stalled, we give it to a go to guy (Biid or Tatum). I believe this is also what Marcus Smart wants.

For drive and draw offense, you just need a couple of guards who can score, shoot and drive. The supply of these type of guards are abundant and we’ve seen it first hand with our team whereas Maxey, Milton, Seth and Kork are good enough to run this type of offense. They’d probably already have the personnel with Pritchard, Langford, Smart and Josh Richardson. Altho upgrades is recommended so I think they’d very likely ask us for picks for this.

Yeah Clips with Khawi and PG13 as the go to guys with Beverly playing PG are a great comparison.

They had the same issues even tho Khawi is a better ISO scorer and playmaker than Taytum and PG13 is also a better playmaker than Brown. Plus, both players were seasoned vets with much more expierience to understand how to adjust and adapt.

So yeah, it doesnt surprise me if Boston could be in a really messy situation with their current lineup.

[DCasey91]

Celtics get Lillard
We get Brown
Blazers get Ben

Or

Wolves get Ben
We get Lillard
Blazers get Antman

That seems reasonable imo.

The hard move would be for the Wolves GM to trade Dlo and KAT for as much as can get back in assets and younger players and back Edwards in. Air it all out and start again. Would probably get you fired but it would set you up for the future better.

[the_process]

If Minnesota is the team that wants Ben, then it's Anthony Edwards plus filler.

Or some other team (WSH, POR, NO) decides they would rather have (3 1sts and 2 swaps) control over Minnesota's drafts for the next half decade than their best or 2nd best player.

Otherwise, if you're just settling on a package, you settle on San Antonio. IMO.

[the_process]

Celtics get Lillard
We get Brown
Blazers get Ben

Or

Wolves get Ben
We get Lillard
Blazers get Antman

That seems reasonable imo.

The hard move would be for the Wolves GM to trade Dlo and KAT for as much as can get back in assets and younger players and back Edwards in. Air it all out and start again. Would probably get you fired but it would set you up for the future better.

Or send Edwards and a couple picks to OKC for Shai.

[DCasey91]

Spurs package is fine in my eyes. Also Kings/Blazers/Nets are suitors for Harris. There’s Irving, CJ, Simons, Little, Barnes, Bagley, Hield etc.

If Antman is the package then swing it to a third team for Ingram/Brown.

Wolves should be getting extra assets from whichever deal they pursue not forgoing them.

KAT is the problem here always has been. Leaky centers don’t bring in wins.

[Sixerscan]

Spurs package is fine in my eyes. Also Kings/Blazers/Nets are suitors for Harris. There’s Irving, CJ, Simons, Little, Barnes, Bagley, Hield etc.

If Antman is the package then swing it to a third team for Ingram/Brown.

Wolves should be getting extra assets from whichever deal they pursue not forgoing them.

KAT is the problem here always has been. Leaky centers don’t bring in wins.

Maybe at like a championship level but I think that franchise would be pretty happy with being a solid playoff team which seems doable.

[DCasey91]

Spurs package is fine in my eyes. Also Kings/Blazers/Nets are suitors for Harris. There’s Irving, CJ, Simons, Little, Barnes, Bagley, Hield etc.

If Antman is the package then swing it to a third team for Ingram/Brown.

Wolves should be getting extra assets from whichever deal they pursue not forgoing them.

KAT is the problem here always has been. Leaky centers don’t bring in wins.

Maybe at like a championship level but I think that franchise would be pretty happy with being a solid playoff team which seems doable.

Oh it’s very doable especially now with the West getting old and injured and some tanking teams and the East is bang in their primes and heavy at the top end (Bucks, Nets, Heat).

But if that’s where you want to be and sign off the next five years doing nothing of note then that’s the way. I think it is because they’ve been the worst org with the Kings they are desperate just to get into the playoffs.

Mentioned ages ago worse case is all three leave (KAT, DLO, ANT) and you get less back for KAT because the contract got less timeframe. Or alternatively say to the kid we are cleaning house you’re our guy we are going to build it the right way type of deal.

Same proposition at the Pelicans. I’d ask the house for Ingram/Zion then tank. Get Chet a franchise ceiling player and go from there.

Long view for the Wolves would be to start again instead +5ing it.

[Sixerscan]

Spurs package is fine in my eyes. Also Kings/Blazers/Nets are suitors for Harris. There’s Irving, CJ, Simons, Little, Barnes, Bagley, Hield etc.

If Antman is the package then swing it to a third team for Ingram/Brown.

Wolves should be getting extra assets from whichever deal they pursue not forgoing them.

KAT is the problem here always has been. Leaky centers don’t bring in wins.

Maybe at like a championship level but I think that franchise would be pretty happy with being a solid playoff team which seems doable.

Oh it’s very doable especially now with the West getting old and injured and some tanking teams and the East is bang in their primes and heavy at the top end (Bucks, Nets, Heat).

But if that’s where you want to be and sign off the next five years doing nothing of note then that’s the way. I think it is because they’ve been the worst org with the Kings they are desperate just to get into the playoffs.

Long view would be to start again instead +5ing it.

Well I think a franchise that has made it to the second round once in there history would see doing so as being "of note". I also think they would look at it like a stepping stone to get to the next level.

Towns may also start playing better defense on a better team. Like Brook Lopez was seen as a bad defensive player for the first part of his career, until he got on a good team where he made an all defensive team and obviously has had playoff success.

[JRoy]

Celtics get Lillard
We get Brown
Blazers get Ben

Or

Wolves get Ben
We get Lillard
Blazers get Antman

That seems reasonable imo.

The hard move would be for the Wolves GM to trade Dlo and KAT for as much as can get back in assets and younger players and back Edwards in. Air it all out and start again. Would probably get you fired but it would set you up for the future better.

About 4 FRP too light for POR.

[Eyeamok]

Celtics get Lillard
We get Brown
Blazers get Ben

Or

Wolves get Ben
We get Lillard
Blazers get Antman

That seems reasonable imo.

The hard move would be for the Wolves GM to trade Dlo and KAT for as much as can get back in assets and younger players and back Edwards in. Air it all out and start again. Would probably get you fired but it would set you up for the future better.

The Wolves GM is probably going to get fired anyway with new ownership. So if he does nothing he gets fired if he does something to set them up for the future he gets fired. Go out on your shield buddy.

[Iverson Armband]

Except Harris doesn't shoot and can't create offense for himself at the perimeter, so basically they're nothing alike.

I am not sure whether Russell can help us (perhaps I just see him on his good days), but I would certainly try to acquire a high volume shot creator instead of another defensive specialist. It probably has to be a more high-risk/high-upside player, instead of Jaylen Brown, Zach Lavine, etc.

What I do know of Russell-esque players is that people always point out their deficiencies (efficiency, defense) until they make another step and suddenly they're way too valuable to acquire.

DLO is in his 7th season at age 25 - when are you thinking this "step" is going to get here?

Dlo isn’t any good. When will people realize this. His is high volume inefficient player who got exposed when Simmons decided to lock him down in playoffs when he was with nets.

People have this lasting image of Simmons in playoffs. They have poor memory how bad Russell looked in 2019 playoffs. So just focus on regular season with the likes of Russell fox etc.

Minnesota has another problem on their hands. Unless Edwards gets hot again. He is looking like Andrew Wiggins 2.0. High volume ineffienct chucker who doesn’t rebound and doesn’t assist.

Edward’s value will be severely depressed if he keeps playing like this as well

In a nutshell. Towns may be Minnesota best asset. And not Russell or Edwards. At least you get efficient scoring from towns.

With this Edwards take, I hope you’re similarly down on Maxey (who’s older, btw).