2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 2)

[God Squad]

So quiet in here. Wheres the army of posters spamming Cade hate every chance they could predraft?

I didn't watch the game. Looking at box scores I wouldn't really say Cade or Green shot particularly well. Cade also had more turnovers than assists. I'm not part of the Cade army of hate, just playing devils advocate.

Cade played better then Green for sure. Cades getting back from a injury hes been getting more comfortable every game. No question in my mind he was the right choice for us of the two at pick 1.

Now of course Mobley and Barnes look like the real gems of the lotto right now. Thats ok though Pistons have Cade and I'm happy with it.

Oh of course. I'm sure every team in the top 5 is happy with their prospect, except maybe Orlando with Suggs. I do think Green and Suggs have been the worst so far. Probably lean to Green being the worst so far due to crappy defense and awful shooting, just not a good mix. But Green is also going to give you a "flashy" dunk per game, but also shoot 5-20 from the field and 3-11 from three. I dislike his shot selection, but his athleticism gets him wherever he needs to be on the court. He needs to become Beal/Lavine+, because I hate his floor atm.

Cade IMO has a solid floor because of the defense and rebounding. But I'm not sure on his ceiling just yet, I have some concerns.

[DroseReturnChi]

So quiet in here. Wheres the army of posters spamming Cade hate every chance they could predraft?

well at least i predicted he will increase his fg 10% every game hopefully he reaches the next level instead of close to 0%.
oh and his negative per which was a historic figure too i see some hope.
at this point, theres already quite a few guys thats already better he needs to be a top 3 rookie to save face. green busting is going well for him.

[God Squad]

So quiet in here. Wheres the army of posters spamming Cade hate every chance they could predraft?

well at least i predicted he will increase his fg 10% every game hopefully he reaches the next level instead of close to 0%.
oh and his negative per which was a historic figure too i see some hope.
at this point, theres already quite a few guys thats already better he needs to be a top 3 rookie to save face. green busting is going well for him.

You use the word bust a lot. I don't think either bust, but if the reach their ceiling is another thing entirely. Basically I don't think either end up in the bust category

Hasheem Thabeet
Anthony Bennett
Darko Miličić
Stromile Swift
Adam Morrison

[Time for Change]

So quiet in here. Wheres the army of posters spamming Cade hate every chance they could predraft?

well at least i predicted he will increase his fg 10% every game hopefully he reaches the next level instead of close to 0%.
oh and his negative per which was a historic figure too i see some hope.
at this point, theres already quite a few guys thats already better he needs to be a top 3 rookie to save face. green busting is going well for him.

You use the word bust a lot. I don't think either bust, but if the reach their ceiling is another thing entirely. Basically I don't think either end up in the bust category

Hasheem Thabeet
Anthony Bennett
Darko Miličić
Stromile Swift
Adam Morrison

You don’t have to be a Darko to be a bust, some busts put up counting stats while still being major net negatives simply because they are force fed opportunities:
Marvin Bagley
Jahlil Okafor
Andrea Bargnani

No one from this draft class is in that category yet, it remains to be seen if some of them can take advantage of the minutes they currently aren’t earning.

[vanhalen26]

Scottie is just a joy to watch. He's got my vote.

[BlazersBroncos]

Barnes is scoring at a very efficient rate (for a rookie) and seemingly able to get it done over most defenders. When he improves his range shooting (his mid-range has already improved leaps and bounds since college ) and then has the confidence / backing of his team to simply go out and run the team and dominate possessions, he will be REALLY special and on par with any ceiling Cade or Green have IMO.

Mobley is just on a level by himself in this class however. Truly impacts winning like a young Tim Duncan.

Giddey is a nice player but he can't guard any position on the court which is a huge problem when you need to hide some 6'8-9 pg somewhere on defence. Still love his game overall. Franz Wagner and Donovan Mitchell looking like great role players.

Overall a great draft.

I'm happy to cut Giddey some slack at this stage. He turned 19 about a week before the season started. He's got a lot of upside as he matures into an NBA player. His raw skill is apparent.

Nobody even expected Giddey to go as early as 6th pick for the most part. he’s playing above expectation IMO I expected him to be way more raw than what he’s shown.

If he develops an efficient jumper watch out

Giddey was alot higher on most draft boards than he was in the draftnik community. Tons of whispers that MEM made that trade specifically to move up for Josh, and even more that GSW was planning to take him 7. He was never going to fall out of the top 9-10, so 6 isnt surprising really.

He needs to work on the shot, everyone knew that coming out, but he has a very workable shot and is filling the stat sheet everywhere else. 2 STL+BLK per game right now is pretty surprising.

[bbms]

Barnes is scoring at a very efficient rate (for a rookie) and seemingly able to get it done over most defenders. When he improves his range shooting (his mid-range has already improved leaps and bounds since college ) and then has the confidence / backing of his team to simply go out and run the team and dominate possessions, he will be REALLY special and on par with any ceiling Cade or Green have IMO.

Mobley is just on a level by himself in this class however. Truly impacts winning like a young Tim Duncan.

Giddey is a nice player but he can't guard any position on the court which is a huge problem when you need to hide some 6'8-9 pg somewhere on defence. Still love his game overall. Franz Wagner and Donovan Mitchell looking like great role players.

Overall a great draft.

I'm happy to cut Giddey some slack at this stage. He turned 19 about a week before the season started. He's got a lot of upside as he matures into an NBA player. His raw skill is apparent.

Nobody even expected Giddey to go as early as 6th pick for the most part. he’s playing above expectation IMO I expected him to be way more raw than what he’s shown.

If he develops an efficient jumper watch out

Masai was heavily scouting him and Barnes. No way in hell he was going to get past GSW.

Hindsight, Giddey at 6 was an extremely high value pick.

[Liqourish]

The real stat that Cade contributes to the most is W/L. Pistons are 2-3 with Cade and 0-5 without him. His first two games back, Casey basically put him in the corner, off the ball and just had him rebound and play defense. The last three games, he's played more PG and initiated the offense and you can see the difference. I have no doubt, he'll continue to improve this season.

[oldshoolballer]

The real stat that Cade contributes to the most is W/L. Pistons are 2-3 with Cade and 0-5 without him. His first two games back, Casey basically put him in the corner, off the ball and just had him rebound and play defense. The last three games, he's played more PG and initiated the offense and you can see the difference. I have no doubt, he'll continue to improve this season.

Cade is going to very good. He got off to a slow start but has responded nicely. Never understood all the hate for the kid.

[Madhouse]

Read on Twitter

Mobley still leading the pack. Suggs stands out as well for other reasons.

[Madhouse]

finally cade is not a bust anymore against green.

No indication that he isn't on his way to busting. Still hasn't played one good game of point guard.

Assists/Turnovers
3/4
2/6
4/3
3/2
2/2
Overall
14/17 for 0.82 ATO

As I have said before, his shooting will return. But without PG skills, he is just a minus athlete shooting guard drafted at #1.

what do you consider 'busting'

his shooting is already returning, he's 7/15 from 3pt in his last two games

that's the problem. It's not a defining word. But the way people talk, you might think a bust is someone who is going number 1 and won't be the best player in the draft.

Which is where the flaws lie. The draft is similar to college recruiting, you recruit 5 stars to get a better chance at a good player. You draft a player number 1 because it in your opinion gives you a better shot at this player becoming good. And even though NBA drafts are much more top heavy than in other sport leagues, the chances of the number 1 pick becoming the best player in his class are still far below 50%.

Cade Cunningham will be a good player, that's his floor. He might become a very good player or a great player in his prime. But a good player at number 1 is not a bust and that's probably his floor.

The only way he would become a bust if his shot was broken like Fultz but it looks like his first few games were a fluke. Coming back off that injury takes some time and even though it was just Houston, this should be more a usual Cade performance we should see more consistently going forward.

I'm seeing promising signs from both Cade and Green, enough to say they will come on big in the 2nd half of the year consistently. Like Anthony Edwards last year.

Busts are Fultz, Bagley etc. Cade will be good. If people consider someone a bust unless he is first team All NBA, that's just unrealistic expectation.

[Tacoma]

The real stat that Cade contributes to the most is W/L. Pistons are 2-3 with Cade and 0-5 without him. His first two games back, Casey basically put him in the corner, off the ball and just had him rebound and play defense. The last three games, he's played more PG and initiated the offense and you can see the difference. I have no doubt, he'll continue to improve this season.

The Pistons' 2 wins were against ORL and HOU, among the bottom 5 teams, while their losses were against CHI, PHI, BKN, MIL, all top teams. The ORL win was Cade's 1st game where he scored 2 pts in 19 min. To make the above claim that 'Cade contributes to the most is W/L' is a big stretch. DET would likely not have won any more games against CHI, PHI, MIL, BKN, with Cade.

Your claim thus about his impact is misleading. The REAL real stat is Cade has played 5 NBA games. Way too early.

[Bruin]

The real stat that Cade contributes to the most is W/L. Pistons are 2-3 with Cade and 0-5 without him. His first two games back, Casey basically put him in the corner, off the ball and just had him rebound and play defense. The last three games, he's played more PG and initiated the offense and you can see the difference. I have no doubt, he'll continue to improve this season.

Their 2 wins are against the Rockets and Magic. Both teams had 1 win at the time of the matchup. I wouldn’t really read much into the stat of the Pistons being 2-3 with him and 0-5 without him

[JonFromVA]

No indication that he isn't on his way to busting. Still hasn't played one good game of point guard.

Assists/Turnovers
3/4
2/6
4/3
3/2
2/2
Overall
14/17 for 0.82 ATO

As I have said before, his shooting will return. But without PG skills, he is just a minus athlete shooting guard drafted at #1.

You might be right about him not being a point guard long-term, and that A/T turnover needs to improve, but in all fairness I do want to mention that we are dead last in FG% and 3pt% at 39% and 28% respectively. A lot of the time Cade sets someone up for a bucket, they just downright miss.

How long does Cade get to use that excuse? 30 games? It's the same one used for his OK State team to explain his college issues with assist to turnover.

And how come Killian can at least attain a positive assist to turnover ratio (1.6 both seasons, quite mediocre for a NBA PG since even turnover prone guards like Westbrook hits 2.5)

Cade's AST/TO was the obvious flaw in the idea of him becoming a point guard/forward, but he literally has years to work it out. If he seemed to lack vision, BBIQ, struggled to make passes those would be serious red flags.

Maybe the Piston's should trade for Rubio?

It would be nice if the thread could stay focused on the positives the prospects are showing and not get hung up on bust narratives.

Fans of teams who haven't played the lottery game much need to realize that not knowing exactly what you've got 3 or 4 years in to a one and done player's career when you need to decide if you want to pay them - is pretty typical.

[Shock Defeat]

Green is second to maybe Mobley in terms of the highest ceiling in the draft. He is an extremely raw prospect but only 19. Can't compare him to older people like Barnes, Giddey, Cunningham. You will see tremendous improvement from him as the season goes on. Look at Anthony Edwards' development, this is what Green will be like.

[namlede]

Green is second to maybe Mobley in terms of the highest ceiling in the draft. He is an extremely raw prospect but only 19. Can't compare him to older people like Barnes, Giddey, Cunningham. You will see tremendous improvement from him as the season goes on. Look at Anthony Edwards' development, this is what Green will be like.

Giddey is 8 months younger than Green.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using RealGM mobile app

[DudetheObscure]

I'm happy to cut Giddey some slack at this stage. He turned 19 about a week before the season started. He's got a lot of upside as he matures into an NBA player. His raw skill is apparent.

Nobody even expected Giddey to go as early as 6th pick for the most part. he’s playing above expectation IMO I expected him to be way more raw than what he’s shown.

If he develops an efficient jumper watch out

Giddey was alot higher on most draft boards than he was in the draftnik community. Tons of whispers that MEM made that trade specifically to move up for Josh, and even more that GSW was planning to take him 7. He was never going to fall out of the top 9-10, so 6 isnt surprising really.

He needs to work on the shot, everyone knew that coming out, but he has a very workable shot and is filling the stat sheet everywhere else. 2 STL+BLK per game right now is pretty surprising.

I've been very impressed by his shot so far. I wasn't expecting much, but he has a nice floater and has a very quick release for someone so young on the corner 3. The other thing that doesn't get talked about much is his rebounding. He is currently 3rd among rookies at 6.7 and had 12 last night against NOLA.

[Shock Defeat]

Green is second to maybe Mobley in terms of the highest ceiling in the draft. He is an extremely raw prospect but only 19. Can't compare him to older people like Barnes, Giddey, Cunningham. You will see tremendous improvement from him as the season goes on. Look at Anthony Edwards' development, this is what Green will be like.

Giddey is 8 months younger than Green.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using RealGM mobile app

Heh, my bad. My point still stands though.

[Madhouse]

Green is second to maybe Mobley in terms of the highest ceiling in the draft. He is an extremely raw prospect but only 19. Can't compare him to older people like Barnes, Giddey, Cunningham. You will see tremendous improvement from him as the season goes on. Look at Anthony Edwards' development, this is what Green will be like.

He is older than Giddey, will turn 20 in February and all those other guys, Mobley, Wagner, Cunningham, Barnes, Suggs etc. just turned 20. It really isn't a big deal.

[Bruin]

Green is second to maybe Mobley in terms of the highest ceiling in the draft. He is an extremely raw prospect but only 19. Can't compare him to older people like Barnes, Giddey, Cunningham. You will see tremendous improvement from him as the season goes on. Look at Anthony Edwards' development, this is what Green will be like.

I personally feel he has the lowest ceiling in the top 4. His ceiling to me is a Bradley Beal/Zach Lavine whereas I can see Cade, Mobley, and Barnes becoming top 10 players

Green maxes out as a high volume scorer without much defense. The other guys all provide more than just scoring

Also the age difference is merely months so it’s hardly a factor. Cade is just 5 months older and Scottie just 6 months