The LeBron James - 21-22 Regular Season Thread - New Thread Soon Part 2

[MisterHibachi]

Not perfect but good win. Fun game too

Those OKC games are really annoying. Lakers should be 9-3 right now if they didn't blow 20 point leads to a bottom 5 team twice.

[trickshot]

Yeah I won't lie that was incredibly impressive from Westbrook and the Lakers. Their offense is ridiculously hard to contain. Defense was also okay albeit against a Heat team that seems to have regressed in its passing connection. Problem still remains they can't hold a comfy lead to save their lives. They are playing great offense in most games but losing their hard earned leads.

[nzahir]

Russ completely blew up that play just to take an awful shot lmao.

AD needs to touch the ball there, no excuses.

Why so AD can also chuck up an awful fadeaway jumper?

We need an AD attack or shot down low, Russ attacking the basket or a drawn up play for a good look for Melo or Monk

I didn't watch most of the game, just saw the highlights

Amazing that we stole this one

Yes I see Jimmy was out, but considering half of our rotation is out, I will take it

I still hope we move on from Russ as he is so low IQ, so up and down, and a turnover machine

It is hard to trust those kind of guys in big moments deep in the playoffs

His job seems to be to keep us afloat if Lebron or AD are missing games. He may be able to help there, but those 2 blown games to OKC were travesty

We should be 9-3 right now

[McBubbles]

Whole league begging for calls, and Jimmy getting touch fouls all over the place.

Jimmy Butler in 2019 took only 13 shots a game whilst getting 9 free throws a **** game, to give him a free throw rate on par with Barkley and Shaq's career bests. I asked Heat fans wtf was going on and they just said "He makes contact", as if other people don't lol. Searched the interweb and Realgm to see if anyone noticed how odd this was but there was no discussion. Similar thing happened in the Finals too, man was just not NOT getting free throws.

[Mos_Heat]

Bazemore sucks

[Fadeaway_J]

Bazemore sucks

The dropoff from KCP to him is glaring.

[MisterHibachi]

I know the early season narrative has already been established for this team, but the Lakers aren't doing that bad. They're now 13th in defense, and 8th over their last 7 games. Kind of matches the eye test too where they've clearly improved on that end.

Treading water without LeBron and basically the entire wing rotation out, and trending in the right direction. They also have a very easy and simple avenue to improve their overall numbers, by benching DJ, which I'm sure will happen once AD and Melo aren't the only 4s on the active roster. This team will be really good once they get healthy.

[Fadeaway_J]

I know the early season narrative has already been established for this team, but the Lakers aren't doing that bad. They're now 13th in defense, and 8th over their last 7 games. Kind of matches the eye test too where they've clearly improved on that end.

Treading water without LeBron and basically the entire wing rotation out, and trending in the right direction. They also have a very easy and simple avenue to improve their overall numbers, by benching DJ, which I'm sure will happen once AD and Melo aren't the only 4s on the active roster. This team will be really good once they get healthy.

There are mitigating factors, but it has also been an extremely soft schedule. I'm not ready to change my tune yet based on the last couple of games.

[homecourtloss]

I know the early season narrative has already been established for this team, but the Lakers aren't doing that bad. They're now 13th in defense, and 8th over their last 7 games. Kind of matches the eye test too where they've clearly improved on that end.

Treading water without LeBron and basically the entire wing rotation out, and trending in the right direction. They also have a very easy and simple avenue to improve their overall numbers, by benching DJ, which I'm sure will happen once AD and Melo aren't the only 4s on the active roster. This team will be really good once they get healthy.

There are mitigating factors, but it has also been an extremely soft schedule. I'm not ready to change my tune yet based on the last couple of games.

Yes, the early schedule has been extremely generous and kind to them though they really haven’t taken advantage of it by blowing those two games vs. the Thunder. But the game was a positive seeing how many more free throws the Heat shot as teams rarely win with such disparities. No backup PG, no top 3 defender for them this year (Reaves), no LeBron, and they come back late primarily through three pointers shooting and Westbrook’s activity despite all the turnovers.

They’re still trying to find lineups that will score and defend at the same time. Monk’s defense has been better than expected and it’s helped the Lakers with some lineups.

Monk’s Individual contest numbers: https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1628370/defense-dash/

Lakers have a 98.0 DRtg with him on court, which is especially strong.

Lakers are currently +6.1 per 100 possessions with ADavis off court, a whopping 9.1 PPP points per 100 better defensively. The Lakers have won 7 games while AD has been a + on court in only 3 games out of 12, which is really bizarre. Not sure if we’re going to see AD play like a top 10 impact player but if we do, especially defensively, many of the issues the Lakers have will dissipate.

[Fadeaway_J]

I know the early season narrative has already been established for this team, but the Lakers aren't doing that bad. They're now 13th in defense, and 8th over their last 7 games. Kind of matches the eye test too where they've clearly improved on that end.

Treading water without LeBron and basically the entire wing rotation out, and trending in the right direction. They also have a very easy and simple avenue to improve their overall numbers, by benching DJ, which I'm sure will happen once AD and Melo aren't the only 4s on the active roster. This team will be really good once they get healthy.

There are mitigating factors, but it has also been an extremely soft schedule. I'm not ready to change my tune yet based on the last couple of games.

Yes, the early schedule has been extremely generous and kind to them though they really haven’t taken advantage of it by blowing those two games vs. the Thunder. But the game was a positive seeing how many more free throws the Heat shot as teams rarely win with such disparities. No backup PG, no top 3 defender for them this year (Reaves), no LeBron, and they come back late primarily through three pointers shooting and Westbrook’s activity despite all the turnovers.

They’re still trying to find lineups that will score and defend at the same time. Monk’s defense has been better than expected and it’s helped the Lakers with some lineups.

Monk’s Individual contest numbers: https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1628370/defense-dash/

Lakers have a 98.0 DRtg with him on court, which is especially strong.

Lakers are currently +6.1 per 100 possessions with ADavis off court, a whopping 9.1 PPP points per 100 better defensively. The Lakers have won 7 games while AD has been a + on court in only 3 games out of 12, which is really bizarre. Not sure if we’re going to see AD play like a top 10 impact player but if we do, especially defensively, many of the issues the Lakers have will dissipate.

How much of that is down to the lineups he's playing with?

Being tethered to Russ and DAJ can't be helping.

[Heej]

I don't think he's ever been better than Curry on defense

Honestly that whole meme about Curry being a bad defender never jived with my eye test. Sure he was frail when he was younger but his arms are long and he has quick hands. Not to mention he legit puts in effort every possession. For all his gifts, it's his motor that may be the most underrated aspect of his game. Also, I've long considered Curry the most underrated rebounding guard of his era. He's just got that light skin stigma going against him, but you can't have a perennial number 1 level defense if one of your primary point of attack defenders is a turnstile or a negative help defender.

Also, regarding Rose I often think about how good he could've been. He was clearly the better player than Westbrook by a substantial margin at every point in their careers before his injury, and Westbrook went on to win an MVP. If we project Rose to having continually improved his shooting at the rate he's improved now with healthy offseasons I think we're looking at a guy that battles for the top point guard title with Curry year in and year out the way Deron Williams used to with CP3. Which is insane to think about that he had top 15-25 all time potential.

His arms are not long.
He is 6’3” with a 6’4” wingspan.

Curry is an average to slightly below average defender for his position. He puts in the effort and he plays within the defensive game plan, so he will not hurt the team scheme.

In high leverage situations however, he will be targeted by the opposing team. Not because he is a horrible defender, but because he is often times the weakest defensive player in his lineup.

Curry
Thompson
Iguodala
Green
Bogut

Curry is literally the only guy to target in such a lineup. The fact that he cannot tank such a great defensive unit does not make him great defensively either.

He is average defensively, at best.

Place him on a comical defensive team like the 2018 Cavs and he will be fried.

Thats super solid for a point guard lol. Curry's got great size for the position, I'm not hearing it. And idk what parts of the possession you watch, but you're clearly not paying attention if you don't see Steph's positioning on help defense and how good he is at getting back into the action when he gets screened off if the coverage calls for him to fight through. His motor, help defense, and rebounding alone at the PG spot makes him an above average guard defender.

As far as getting targeted, sure in those lineups he was the weakest link but that's certainly not the case on the Warriors anymore. And if you actually watch ball and pay attention to how much defenses get punished nowadays by these guys when they're a step slow on closeouts, you'd have a lot more appreciation for how important it is not to be a liability in the scheme.

As a Knicks fan just watching Kemba Walker alone tank possessions by giving up easy penetration, not rear view contesting the ballhandler after being screened off, generally being ineffective closing out, or simply not plugging up gaps on help D it really stands out how quickly teams can exploit weaknesses on help side in the modern NBA. And this is a team that was one of the best defensive teams in the league last season.

I was saying the same thing back in D Rose's MVP season when people gave all the credit to their defense. Rose was one of the best defensive PGs in the league that season and no one actually noticed it at the time because they don't have a sense for how much each moving part contributes to the overall scheme. And this is why I suggest watching game replays so you can click back and identify breakdowns and the butterfly effects of them yourself until you're good enough to see it in real time.

[trickshot]

There are mitigating factors, but it has also been an extremely soft schedule. I'm not ready to change my tune yet based on the last couple of games.

Yes, the early schedule has been extremely generous and kind to them though they really haven’t taken advantage of it by blowing those two games vs. the Thunder. But the game was a positive seeing how many more free throws the Heat shot as teams rarely win with such disparities. No backup PG, no top 3 defender for them this year (Reaves), no LeBron, and they come back late primarily through three pointers shooting and Westbrook’s activity despite all the turnovers.

They’re still trying to find lineups that will score and defend at the same time. Monk’s defense has been better than expected and it’s helped the Lakers with some lineups.

Monk’s Individual contest numbers: https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1628370/defense-dash/

Lakers have a 98.0 DRtg with him on court, which is especially strong.

Lakers are currently +6.1 per 100 possessions with ADavis off court, a whopping 9.1 PPP points per 100 better defensively. The Lakers have won 7 games while AD has been a + on court in only 3 games out of 12, which is really bizarre. Not sure if we’re going to see AD play like a top 10 impact player but if we do, especially defensively, many of the issues the Lakers have will dissipate.

How much of that is down to the lineups he's playing with?

Being tethered to Russ and DAJ can't be helping.

Lineups are part of it but the other half is him playing waaay below his ability. Like way way below. Think of how often the Lakers have been shredded with AD guarding the PnR. Passes that would never get through going under his reach because he's barely looking to move. This was the same guy who shut down Heat's PnR offense in game 6 of the finals. I think he needs an energy big beside him not someone like DJ who plays just as lazy but without the high defensive potential.

[Greyhound]

Honestly that whole meme about Curry being a bad defender never jived with my eye test. Sure he was frail when he was younger but his arms are long and he has quick hands. Not to mention he legit puts in effort every possession. For all his gifts, it's his motor that may be the most underrated aspect of his game. Also, I've long considered Curry the most underrated rebounding guard of his era. He's just got that light skin stigma going against him, but you can't have a perennial number 1 level defense if one of your primary point of attack defenders is a turnstile or a negative help defender.

Also, regarding Rose I often think about how good he could've been. He was clearly the better player than Westbrook by a substantial margin at every point in their careers before his injury, and Westbrook went on to win an MVP. If we project Rose to having continually improved his shooting at the rate he's improved now with healthy offseasons I think we're looking at a guy that battles for the top point guard title with Curry year in and year out the way Deron Williams used to with CP3. Which is insane to think about that he had top 15-25 all time potential.

His arms are not long.
He is 6’3” with a 6’4” wingspan.

Curry is an average to slightly below average defender for his position. He puts in the effort and he plays within the defensive game plan, so he will not hurt the team scheme.

In high leverage situations however, he will be targeted by the opposing team. Not because he is a horrible defender, but because he is often times the weakest defensive player in his lineup.

Curry
Thompson
Iguodala
Green
Bogut

Curry is literally the only guy to target in such a lineup. The fact that he cannot tank such a great defensive unit does not make him great defensively either.

He is average defensively, at best.

Place him on a comical defensive team like the 2018 Cavs and he will be fried.

Thats super solid for a point guard lol. Curry's got great size for the position, I'm not hearing it. And idk what parts of the possession you watch, but you're clearly not paying attention if you don't see Steph's positioning on help defense and how good he is at getting back into the action when he gets screened off if the coverage calls for him to fight through. His motor, help defense, and rebounding alone at the PG spot makes him an above average guard defender.

As far as getting targeted, sure in those lineups he was the weakest link but that's certainly not the case on the Warriors anymore. And if you actually watch ball and pay attention to how much defenses get punished nowadays by these guys when they're a step slow on closeouts, you'd have a lot more appreciation for how important it is not to be a liability in the scheme.

As a Knicks fan just watching Kemba Walker alone tank possessions by giving up easy penetration, not rear view contesting the ballhandler after being screened off, generally being ineffective closing out, or simply not plugging up gaps on help D it really stands out how quickly teams can exploit weaknesses on help side in the modern NBA. And this is a team that was one of the best defensive teams in the league last season.

I was saying the same thing back in D Rose's MVP season when people gave all the credit to their defense. Rose was one of the best defensive PGs in the league that season and no one actually noticed it at the time because they don't have a sense for how much each moving part contributes to the overall scheme. And this is why I suggest watching game replays so you can click back and identify breakdowns and the butterfly effects of them yourself until you're good enough to see it in real time.

Not buying any of it. He is an average defender (at best), by any measure.

6’4” wingspan is nothing close to “long” lol. Admit that you gaffed and carry on with your day.

[trickshot]

Until I see them win the 22 title I'll never shake the feeling they absolutely gaffed ditching their defensive identity this year of all years. In the bubble the Lakers got shredded in single coverage by smaller types like Lillard and Harden but this was what they had to deal with back then.

Read on Twitter

?

This is what single coverage looks like so far this season.

Watch on YouTube

Don't get me wrong, it's not as easy as just scaling everyone's defense higher but the Lakers specifically experienced a lot of trouble with those types and had to use lots of help to compensate. It's a totally different scheme without.

[TroubleS0me]

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

[Heej]

His arms are not long.
He is 6’3” with a 6’4” wingspan.

Curry is an average to slightly below average defender for his position. He puts in the effort and he plays within the defensive game plan, so he will not hurt the team scheme.

In high leverage situations however, he will be targeted by the opposing team. Not because he is a horrible defender, but because he is often times the weakest defensive player in his lineup.

Curry
Thompson
Iguodala
Green
Bogut

Curry is literally the only guy to target in such a lineup. The fact that he cannot tank such a great defensive unit does not make him great defensively either.

He is average defensively, at best.

Place him on a comical defensive team like the 2018 Cavs and he will be fried.

Thats super solid for a point guard lol. Curry's got great size for the position, I'm not hearing it. And idk what parts of the possession you watch, but you're clearly not paying attention if you don't see Steph's positioning on help defense and how good he is at getting back into the action when he gets screened off if the coverage calls for him to fight through. His motor, help defense, and rebounding alone at the PG spot makes him an above average guard defender.

As far as getting targeted, sure in those lineups he was the weakest link but that's certainly not the case on the Warriors anymore. And if you actually watch ball and pay attention to how much defenses get punished nowadays by these guys when they're a step slow on closeouts, you'd have a lot more appreciation for how important it is not to be a liability in the scheme.

As a Knicks fan just watching Kemba Walker alone tank possessions by giving up easy penetration, not rear view contesting the ballhandler after being screened off, generally being ineffective closing out, or simply not plugging up gaps on help D it really stands out how quickly teams can exploit weaknesses on help side in the modern NBA. And this is a team that was one of the best defensive teams in the league last season.

I was saying the same thing back in D Rose's MVP season when people gave all the credit to their defense. Rose was one of the best defensive PGs in the league that season and no one actually noticed it at the time because they don't have a sense for how much each moving part contributes to the overall scheme. And this is why I suggest watching game replays so you can click back and identify breakdowns and the butterfly effects of them yourself until you're good enough to see it in real time.

Not buying any of it. He is an average defender (at best), by any measure.

6’4” wingspan is nothing close to “long” lol. Admit that you gaffed and carry on with your day.

You give no reasoning for your first point other than "hurr Durr he was targeted back in the day on a team of elite defenders so he sucks!!" Curry has good size and length for the point guard position plain and simple. Not to mention his hands are very quick. 6'4" may not be but if you actually watch him play, he gets his hands on the ball far more often than you'd expect and plays above his weight.

Could be that his anticipation allows him to cover more ground than a typical player his size, but just watching how he towers over CP3 and other guards along with his build nowadays he has great, albeit not elite, size at the position. I get the sense that Curry's slightly over 6'3" while guys like Westbrook are closer to 6'2 and a half. The height difference is fairly noticeable when they're matched up.

[MisterHibachi]

Read on Twitter

Good stuff. Seems pretty sustainable as a go to play

[trickshot]

Tbf the Westbrook trade is kinda paying dividends. They could go 3 of their last 3 after tonight. Main thing is it's not an automatic loss. It may not be better than Lowry and Derozan (if that was ever even possible) but it's better than nothing.

The only issue is bringing little ceiling raising value when playing with Rondo or Lebron. Actually wish more opponents would ignore Westbrook in the regular season so we could catch a glimpse whether the playoff offense is going to be as ugly and congested as we tend to imagine. I just don't know if a title team can ever overcome having one guy being totally ignored. With AD's jumpshot disappearing since the bubble and Lebron being a streaky shooter it's easy to project some really ugly performances.

[Fadeaway_J]

Tbf the Westbrook trade is kinda paying dividends. They could go 3 of their last 3 after tonight. Main thing is it's not an automatic loss. It may not be better than Lowry and Derozan (if that was ever even possible) but it's better than nothing.

The only issue is bringing little ceiling raising value when playing with Rondo or Lebron. Actually wish more opponents would ignore Westbrook in the regular season so we could catch a glimpse whether the playoff offense is going to be as ugly and congested as we tend to imagine. I just don't know if a title team can ever overcome having one guy being totally ignored. With AD's jumpshot disappearing since the bubble and Lebron being a streaky shooter it's easy to project some really ugly performances.

I mean, it wasn't an automatic loss last season. They went 12-15 without LeBron and a lot of those games also included AD's absence. Doesn't feel much different to this season once you factor in the softness of the schedule.

[tone wone]

They really went 12-15 without him last year?

How the hell did they end up in the play-in?