What do we do with the season now?

[Note30]

I don't see Kat, Ant, or Dlo being the problem with the team. Everybody else is the problem. Most of our problem guys couldn't score in a whorehouse.

The system they run shooting 50 3's per game when only 2 or 3 guys on your team can make them is a huge problem. You might even say it's another definition of insanity.

They generally look great in the 1st half but fall apart when the play slows late and the intensity increases. I love Finch but coaching is an issue. That said I would not fire the coaches.

You'll never get equal value in a trade for Kat so you lose the deal and are worse off.

They are probably using Kat wrong considering his skills. If anybody is going to throw up a 3, I want it to be Kat.

He gets way too few chances late.

We have a terrible supporting cast for the system we run. Simple as that.

I'm absolutely pissed that not one guy improved this past offseason.

Dlo absolutely is a problem. Shooting 37pct from the field on 17 attempts?
How is that not a problem?

Averaging only 1.8 more assists than turnovers isn't a problem?

[winforlose]

I don't see Kat, Ant, or Dlo being the problem with the team. Everybody else is the problem. Most of our problem guys couldn't score in a whorehouse.

The system they run shooting 50 3's per game when only 2 or 3 guys on your team can make them is a huge problem. You might even say it's another definition of insanity.

They generally look great in the 1st half but fall apart when the play slows late and the intensity increases. I love Finch but coaching is an issue. That said I would not fire the coaches.

You'll never get equal value in a trade for Kat so you lose the deal and are worse off.

They are probably using Kat wrong considering his skills. If anybody is going to throw up a 3, I want it to be Kat.

He gets way too few chances late.

We have a terrible supporting cast for the system we run. Simple as that.

I'm absolutely pissed that not one guy improved this past offseason.

Dlo absolutely is a problem. Shooting 37pct from the field on 17 attempts?
How is that not a problem?

Averaging only 1.8 more assists than turnovers isn't a problem?

The Timberwolves have been dealing with a Jekyll and Hyde problem all season long. With the exception of KAT, the whole roster has been torn between the best version of themselves (moves the ball, makes good shoots, plays great defense,) and unfortunately much more often their version of Hyde (Selfish/Heroball, ice cold, plays intermittent defense at best.) The team can usually survive one or two Hydes a night, but in the first 9 we have seen a lot more Hyde then Jekyll. Dlo is the worst offender in this category. That said, he doesn’t have to be. Dlo in Jekyll mode is better than most PG/SG in the NBA on offense. On defense he is a liability who has been showing some improvement. But if you haven’t noticed we can afford a little bit of bad defense in exchange for some badly needed offense. Dlo just has to play more like himself and less like the Hyde (polite euphemism for what I want to call him this year.) Get Ant unlocked and Dlo on track you are close to being competitive. I still think you need either a Beasley, or Prince, or MCD, to step up and you need solid minutes from Naz. What I don’t like is the lack of margin of error.

One more thing. While I do believe in Chris Finch, my faith is not blind. His style of offense is not doing well again zones and defensive adjustments at the half. He is not doing enough to get players the ball in the correct situation (case in point no catch and shoot 3s for Beasley last game.) Finch needs to adapt. I truly believe he is capable, but his lack of improvement through 9 games is troubling.

[Krapinsky]

I’m starting to lean toward blowing things up and building around Ant plus whatever we can get for Kat. I just don’t think we have enough talent to try to compete and we are too far away to get there this season or next through trades, free agents, or roster shuffling. I’m also starting to doubt whether Towns can be a 1a guy on a team, or even a 1b guy. It seems the fan base could care less about him after years of losing, so it’s not like we need to hold on to him to appease a fan base still sore from trading KG.

[Magoose]

I haven't watched last nights game yet, though I would agree that KAT is not a 1A option even for borderline contending team.

However, I am convinced that
A) he is a monster 1B option
B) he is currently not used properly and efficiently (which is mostly on coaching staff and lack of BBIQ of surrounding players)
C) he needs some vocal/morale leader next to him (could be PatBev now or ANT in one or two years)

I know that the grass is always greener on the other side and people are frustrated and tired of losing. I feel the same.

But hear me out:
We saw how good a team with Towns can be if constructed and balanced out properly (Remember? We were a playoff team with a "big three" comprised of Jimmy, KAT and Wigs.)
Think about how many draft busts we had in recent years and how hard it will be for us to find a replacement for KATs talent. Especially one that seems to be willing to stay in MSP longterm.

That said, I am not ready to trade KAT unless there is a hint that he wants out. Also if we were to trade KAT it should be for a proven youngish borderline allstar (SGA, Brown, etc.).

So what we should do imho is:

Option 1:

1) Change our approach on offense, establish a two-man game between Ant and KAT with an occasional three by PatBev and Beas.
2) Try to reestablish DLos Value by moving his ass to the second unit as an off-ball flamethrower and let JMac or Bolmaro initiate things.
3) Try to get rid of DLo in the off season.

Option 2:
Continue. Tank Hard. Either trade pic for established 3rd "star" (SGA, Miles Bridges (if he continues like that), Jaylen Brown) or try to get another reliable lead by example type of veteran to play along with ANT, KAT, and the FRP (Horford, Lowry, etc.)

[Krapinsky]

I haven't watched last nights game yet, though I would agree that KAT is not a 1A option even for borderline contending team.

However, I am convinced that
A) he is a monster 1B option
B) he is currently not used properly and efficiently (which is mostly on coaching staff and lack of BBIQ of surrounding players)
C) he needs some vocal/morale leader next to him (could be PatBev now or ANT in one or two years)

I know that the grass is always greener on the other side and people are frustrated and tired of losing. I feel the same.

But hear me out:
We saw how good a team with Towns can be if constructed and balanced out properly (Remember? We were a playoff team with a "big three" comprised of Jimmy, KAT and Wigs.)
Think about how many draft busts we had in recent years and how hard it will be for us to find a replacement for KATs talent. Especially one that seems to be willing to stay in MSP longterm.

That said, I am not ready to trade KAT unless there is a hint that he wants out. Also if we were to trade KAT it should be for a proven youngish borderline allstar (SGA, Brown, etc.).

So what we should do imho is:

Option 1:

1) Change our approach on offense, establish a two-man game between Ant and KAT with an occasional three by PatBev and Beas.
2) Try to reestablish DLos Value by moving his ass to the second unit as an off-ball flamethrower and let JMac or Bolmaro initiate things.
3) Try to get rid of DLo in the off season.

Option 2:
Continue. Tank Hard. Either trade pic for established 3rd "star" (SGA, Miles Bridges (if he continues like that), Jaylen Brown) or try to get another reliable lead by example type of veteran to play along with ANT, KAT, and the FRP (Horford, Lowry, etc.)

Eh, we won 1 playoff game narrowly escaping a sweep. Not sure how much credit Towns gets for that. Butler was clear alpha dog and the year prior had single handled carried an awful roster to a .500 record with Hoiberg as coach. The Wolves added Butler and won 6 more games than Butler did in Chicago. And we had Butler, Towns, Rose, Crawford, Gibson, Dieng, Wiggins, Jones, Bjelicia.

[Klomp]

I haven't watched last nights game yet, though I would agree that KAT is not a 1A option even for borderline contending team.

However, I am convinced that
A) he is a monster 1B option
B) he is currently not used properly and efficiently (which is mostly on coaching staff and lack of BBIQ of surrounding players)
C) he needs some vocal/morale leader next to him (could be PatBev now or ANT in one or two years)

I know that the grass is always greener on the other side and people are frustrated and tired of losing. I feel the same.

But hear me out:
We saw how good a team with Towns can be if constructed and balanced out properly (Remember? We were a playoff team with a "big three" comprised of Jimmy, KAT and Wigs.)
Think about how many draft busts we had in recent years and how hard it will be for us to find a replacement for KATs talent. Especially one that seems to be willing to stay in MSP longterm.

That said, I am not ready to trade KAT unless there is a hint that he wants out. Also if we were to trade KAT it should be for a proven youngish borderline allstar (SGA, Brown, etc.).

So what we should do imho is:

Option 1:

1) Change our approach on offense, establish a two-man game between Ant and KAT with an occasional three by PatBev and Beas.
2) Try to reestablish DLos Value by moving his ass to the second unit as an off-ball flamethrower and let JMac or Bolmaro initiate things.
3) Try to get rid of DLo in the off season.

Option 2:
Continue. Tank Hard. Either trade pic for established 3rd "star" (SGA, Miles Bridges (if he continues like that), Jaylen Brown) or try to get another reliable lead by example type of veteran to play along with ANT, KAT, and the FRP (Horford, Lowry, etc.)

Eh, we won 1 playoff game narrowly escaping a sweep. Not sure how much credit Towns gets for that. Butler was clear alpha dog and the year prior had single handled carried an awful roster to a .500 record with Hoiberg as coach. The Wolves added Butler and won 6 more games than Butler did in Chicago. And we had Butler, Towns, Rose, Crawford, Gibson, Dieng, Wiggins, Jones, Bjelicia.

Towns isn't entirely to blame for that either though. I think what we saw firsthand is Thibodeau's inability to adjust his gameplan. That's what good coaches do in a 7-game series. It was still a 47-win regular season, one of the best in franchise history, and Towns played a big part in that.

To Magoose's points:

I was just thinking about how we should retry the Russell bench experiment. I think it worked decently well last year.

Where I think this can sorta work is with the inclusion of Leandro Bolmaro. I think he's good enough to be a rotational piece, certainly on a .300 team. Whether Bolmaro or Beverley pair up with Edwards or Russell, I don't really care (I'm assuming Beverley would be the starter). Those are the pairings though. One offense, one defense. That should at least get us playing a little better.

[King Malta]

Happy to be corrected, but I struggle to think of a #1a, #1b or #2 big on a championship winning team that played poor defense recently. Dirk Nowitzki is probably the most recent one in my opinion. Otherwise you're looking at Kevin Love, and he was was the #3 guy on a team with Lebron.

Now this isn't to say our current situation is all KAT's fault, but I think we've kind of run our race with trying to build around him to be honest. And as I've mentioned elsewhere, for very valid off-court reasons, I just don't feel like his heart is quite in it in Minnesota anymore.

I'd be happy with moving KAT for a young, two way big with high level potential (Ayton?) and a haul of picks.

[shangrila]

Happy to be corrected, but I struggle to think of a #1a, #1b or #2 big on a championship winning team that played poor defense recently. Dirk Nowitzki is probably the most recent one in my opinion. Otherwise you're looking at Kevin Love, and he was was the #3 guy on a team with Lebron.

Now this isn't to say our current situation is all KAT's fault, but I think we've kind of run our race with trying to build around him to be honest. And as I've mentioned elsewhere, for very valid off-court reasons, I just don't feel like his heart is quite in it in Minnesota anymore.

I'd be happy with moving KAT for a young, two way big with high level potential (Ayton?) and a haul of picks.

We need to start a club.

Who wants in?

[Klomp]

Happy to be corrected, but I struggle to think of a #1a, #1b or #2 big on a championship winning team that played poor defense recently. Dirk Nowitzki is probably the most recent one in my opinion. Otherwise you're looking at Kevin Love, and he was was the #3 guy on a team with Lebron.

Now this isn't to say our current situation is all KAT's fault, but I think we've kind of run our race with trying to build around him to be honest. And as I've mentioned elsewhere, for very valid off-court reasons, I just don't feel like his heart is quite in it in Minnesota anymore.

I'd be happy with moving KAT for a young, two way big with high level potential (Ayton?) and a haul of picks.

It'd be the Dirk model for sure

[Krapinsky]

I don't see Kat, Ant, or Dlo being the problem with the team. Everybody else is the problem. Most of our problem guys couldn't score in a whorehouse.

The system they run shooting 50 3's per game when only 2 or 3 guys on your team can make them is a huge problem. You might even say it's another definition of insanity.

They generally look great in the 1st half but fall apart when the play slows late and the intensity increases. I love Finch but coaching is an issue. That said I would not fire the coaches.

You'll never get equal value in a trade for Kat so you lose the deal and are worse off.

They are probably using Kat wrong considering his skills. If anybody is going to throw up a 3, I want it to be Kat.

He gets way too few chances late.

We have a terrible supporting cast for the system we run. Simple as that.

I'm absolutely pissed that not one guy improved this past offseason.

Dlo absolutely is a problem. Shooting 37pct from the field on 17 attempts?
How is that not a problem?

Averaging only 1.8 more assists than turnovers isn't a problem?

It does seem that D-Lo has the fate of this team in his hands. We rise or fall with D-Lo. And so far, he’s fallen flat.

[Foye]

Happy to be corrected, but I struggle to think of a #1a, #1b or #2 big on a championship winning team that played poor defense recently. Dirk Nowitzki is probably the most recent one in my opinion. Otherwise you're looking at Kevin Love, and he was was the #3 guy on a team with Lebron.

Now this isn't to say our current situation is all KAT's fault, but I think we've kind of run our race with trying to build around him to be honest. And as I've mentioned elsewhere, for very valid off-court reasons, I just don't feel like his heart is quite in it in Minnesota anymore.

I'd be happy with moving KAT for a young, two way big with high level potential (Ayton?) and a haul of picks.

It'd be the Dirk model for sure

The solution to success was always moving KAT to the PF position and getting someone who has rim protecting capabilities for 25-30 minutes a night. 95% of PFs are not big enough for that. However, it wasn't even ever tried because it might have hurt Towns feelings or whatever.

Dirk always had a defensive C (Chandler / Dampier for example) next to him.
Something that Minnesota ownership has never even considered even though they had the opportunity to acquire Capela but opted to rather take expiring Turner.
Instead there was always the false notion that you would need a defensive minded PF next to KAT.

The myth that Towns can't play PF has also established on this board quite a bit. It worked in college with WCS but somehow was never tried on the NBA level. The issue isn't that he can't. He can, he just doesn't want to - which is egoistic behaviour that only losing organizations will accept.

Right now, the roster is so depleted of talent after giving away Rubio for absolutely nothing that it doesn't even makes sense acquiring a defensive C anymore. Way too many flawed and egoistic players on the roster. Just blow it up and rebuild around Anthony Edwards.

At least more people on this board are now realizing that this organization is going nowhere and injuries weren't the issue for lack of success. You should admit that too Klomp.

[Dewey]

I’m going to refer to DLo as “Pancake” moving forward. He truly has fallen flat - again.

Since Towns has been here, we have yet to pair him with a starting caliber defender inside.

We have yet to acquire a legit PG … Rubio has been the closest thing to it and we’ve traded him twice … dumb and dumber. Pancake has issues mentally and some durability issues as well. Just seems he’s more about playing in a pickup game than leading a competitive game.

[Calinks]

Not shocking cause we are the wolves but shocking in every other metric, the offensive percentages for so many of our players have just tanked this year. Very odd. Prince was shooting 3's at 41%, now 16%. Jmac was shooting at 48% his rookie year and now he is at 28%. Beasley went from 44% to 33.7%.

There are just some massive drops all around, our offense is so messed up compared other teams and even our own teams of the past, so strange. On top of that, we aren't able to get any calls to help make up the difference so we are effectively dead every night because we are undergunned,

[Klomp]

The solution to success was always moving KAT to the PF position and getting someone who has rim protecting capabilities for 25-30 minutes a night. 95% of PFs are not big enough for that. However, it wasn't even ever tried because it might have hurt Towns feelings or whatever.

Dirk always had a defensive C (Chandler / Dampier for example) next to him.
Something that Minnesota ownership has never even considered even though they had the opportunity to acquire Capela but opted to rather take expiring Turner.
Instead there was always the false notion that you would need a defensive minded PF next to KAT.

The myth that Towns can't play PF has also established on this board quite a bit. It worked in college with WCS but somehow was never tried on the NBA level. The issue isn't that he can't. He can, he just doesn't want to - which is egoistic behaviour that only losing organizations will accept.

Right now, the roster is so depleted of talent after giving away Rubio for absolutely nothing that it doesn't even makes sense acquiring a defensive C anymore. Way too many flawed and egoistic players on the roster. Just blow it up and rebuild around Anthony Edwards.

At least more people on this board are now realizing that this organization is going nowhere and injuries weren't the issue for lack of success. You should admit that too Klomp.

I'm not sure it's all Towns' fault. I think a big part of why people are pairing him with a PF instead of a C is the "modern NBA" shift that we've seen around the league.

As for the last part of your post, I don't think it can be definitively said why the lack of success. There are a number of issues at play here, which I've never denied.

[Calinks]

I def think its lazy and easy to just pin it all on KAT and think that's an easy fix. There are multifaceted issues.

I guarantee you, when KAT gets on a different team, especially one know to be competent, a major chunk of these issues will vaporize. Not saying he will be a defensive anchor or anything but it wont be some major issue with him. He will get to the line more, he will be seen in a much better light and see more success.

I don't know how or why it keeps happening but we just continually have multiple issues with our team, maybe the inconsistency is to blame but this is a constant problem we have been struggling with since KG left, before KAT was even here. We always run into some major holes and we fail to put the right pieces around for success.

Very frustrating but we keep doing this. KAT is not blameless but this franchise is the biggest issue, for whatever reason we are really bad up putting success together.

[shangrila]

Not shocking cause we are the wolves but shocking in every other metric, the offensive percentages for so many of our players have just tanked this year. Very odd. Prince was shooting 3's at 41%, now 16%. Jmac was shooting at 48% his rookie year and now he is at 28%. Beasley went from 44% to 33.7%.

There are just some massive drops all around, our offense is so messed up compared other teams and even our own teams of the past, so strange. On top of that, we aren't able to get any calls to help make up the difference so we are effectively dead every night because we are undergunned,

I think they legitimately focused too much on defence in the offseason.

It's nice that it's worked out (kind of) but at the same time we don't have the BBIQ to run the free flowing offence Finch has tried to implement (that should take less practice).

[Dalvin]

I wonder if it's the new ball that's plummeting our players shooting percentages. If so, that sucks.

[winforlose]

Gonna bump this thread as well and ask the 25 of you who voted the season over what if anything has changed your minds?

[Note30]

Gonna bump this thread as well and ask the 25 of you who voted the season over what if anything has changed your minds?

I'm willing to eat crow and say I was hasty in deciding to burn it all so quickly.

I'm really hopeful for this season now, but ultimately.... I'm not fully convinced we'll make it.

I do still think I don't know if we can completely rely on out so called Big 3. They aren't all that consistent and there is something to the extent that while I see a massive change in DLo and Bev, Vando, McDaniels, there is still question marks on Ant and Towns. I think Ant can get to the point where the effort meets it all but I'm not sure about Towns. And the thing is, he's the main player on this roster, he's the best player on offense.

I really hope we do. But there are legitimate questions around the team, and it's clear we need upgrades in specific areas, but more so that we need to keep this culture of effort we're seeing from this team.

[packforfreedom]

Gonna bump this thread as well and ask the 25 of you who voted the season over what if anything has changed your minds?

Be happy that your optimism seemed warranted, but there's no need to be an a** about it.