2021-22 NBA Season Discussion

[GSP]

I don't want to jump the gun.........but Jokic numbers so far SCREAM a Goat peak like some 00 Shaq ****..........am I way off or is this actually possible

[Peregrine01]

I don't want to jump the gun.........but Jokic numbers so far SCREAM a Goat peak like some 00 Shaq ****..........am I way off or is this actually possible

He’s #1 in practically every impact stat. But the team utterly sucks without him.

[Outside]

This was posted on the Warriors board game thread last night. If they can turn Wiseman into a positive (or at least not that level of negative) and add a reasonable facsimile of Klay, they are incredibly deep.

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The very definition of addition by subtraction.

[Texas Chuck]

This was posted on the Warriors board game thread last night. If they can turn Wiseman into a positive (or at least not that level of negative) and add a reasonable facsimile of Klay, they are incredibly deep.

I still have some fears that OPJ, Iggy, and Bjelica can hold up all season. But if they can and Poole finds his shot or becomes a luxury because Klay can play low end starter's minutes then yeah.

And Curry and Draymond just such a perfect duo to anchor the whole thing.

[Heej]

Jokic is insane. I saw that MF hit a Euro step hook shot over Capela and had to pause for a second. Made it look so easy haha. The NBA is gonna be INSANE in 10-15 years man. All these dudes with size have the skills of smalls now coming into the league. It's gonna get to the point where anyone under 6'3" getting into the league is gonna have to be a flawless player if they want to make the all Star team

[70sFan]

Jokic is insane. I saw that MF hit a Euro step hook shot over Capela and had to pause for a second. Made it look so easy haha. The NBA is gonna be INSANE in 10-15 years man. All these dudes with size have the skills of smalls now coming into the league. It's gonna get to the point where anyone under 6'3" getting into the league is gonna have to be a flawless player if they want to make the all Star team

Could you send me a link to this euro step hook shot?

[MartinToVaught]

Jokic is insane. I saw that MF hit a Euro step hook shot over Capela and had to pause for a second. Made it look so easy haha. The NBA is gonna be INSANE in 10-15 years man. All these dudes with size have the skills of smalls now coming into the league. It's gonna get to the point where anyone under 6'3" getting into the league is gonna have to be a flawless player if they want to make the all Star team

Blake Griffin was the sneak preview of this modern wave of bigs with guard skills. He was way ahead of his time, but neutral/casual fans never gave him credit because they were still stuck on antiquated notions of how a power forward should play back then.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

[Texas Chuck]

Blake Griffin was the sneak preview of this modern wave of bigs with guard skills. He was way ahead of his time, but neutral/casual fans never gave him credit because they were still stuck on antiquated notions of how a power forward should play back then.

Wait what? Griffin came along way behind other PF with guard skills. He definitely wasn't the first. And by the time he arrived people definitely weren't still thinking PF's should be Dale Davis or Danny Fortson. You already had to be able to space the floor in most cases. He was a rookie in 2010 not 1995.

[MartinToVaught]

Blake Griffin was the sneak preview of this modern wave of bigs with guard skills. He was way ahead of his time, but neutral/casual fans never gave him credit because they were still stuck on antiquated notions of how a power forward should play back then.

Wait what? Griffin came along way behind other PF with guard skills. He definitely wasn't the first. And by the time he arrived people definitely weren't still thinking PF's should be Dale Davis or Danny Fortson. You already had to be able to space the floor in most cases. He was a rookie in 2010 not 1995.

He wasn't the first big to ever have guard skills, of course, nor did I say he was. He was just an early example of the new wave that Heej was talking about.

And you wouldn't believe how many casual fans I used to argue with who insisted that he had "no skills" and "could only dunk" because he wasn't playing like a '90s big man.

[Statlanta]

Blake Griffin was the sneak preview of this modern wave of bigs with guard skills. He was way ahead of his time, but neutral/casual fans never gave him credit because they were still stuck on antiquated notions of how a power forward should play back then.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

In terms of dribbling yes.

In terms of shooting.

Channeling my inner Colbinii

Watch on YouTube

[Doctor MJ]

I think the thing about Blake Griffin is that people didn't appreciate how much he added to his game because Chris Paul's presence blocked a lot of his ability to use is as the main team strategy and then Griffin's body began to break down.

If the Clippers never acquire Paul, good chance Griffin is considerably more respected today.

[Colbinii]

Blake Griffin was the sneak preview of this modern wave of bigs with guard skills. He was way ahead of his time, but neutral/casual fans never gave him credit because they were still stuck on antiquated notions of how a power forward should play back then.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

In terms of dribbling yes.

In terms of shooting.

Channeling my inner Colbinii

Watch on YouTube

2014 Kevin Love was the apex of "Old school power forward" and "modern stretch 4".

[Colbinii]

I think the thing about Blake Griffin is that people didn't appreciate how much he added to his game because Chris Paul's presence blocked a lot of his ability to use is as the main team strategy and then Griffin's body began to break down.

If the Clippers never acquire Paul, good chance Griffin is considerably more respected today.

We also don't know how much Griffin ends up adding to his game if he doesn't have Chris Paul and Doc Rivers.

Imagining him on the 1990s or 2000s Clippers and his career could have been far worse.

[Doctor MJ]

I think the thing about Blake Griffin is that people didn't appreciate how much he added to his game because Chris Paul's presence blocked a lot of his ability to use is as the main team strategy and then Griffin's body began to break down.

If the Clippers never acquire Paul, good chance Griffin is considerably more respected today.

We also don't know how much Griffin ends up adding to his game if he doesn't have Chris Paul and Doc Rivers.

Imagining him on the 1990s or 2000s Clippers and his career could have been far worse.

True, but I'm just saying I think we saw enough skillset wise to understand that he could have been an effective helio.

Of course as I say this, I don't think they'd have been as good without Paul, and that may have meant the Clippers never got out of the first round. Still, not hard to imagine a scenario where that still gives him a good argument over someone like TMac, and in general you never really see people venerating Griffin like they do TMac.

[Texas Chuck]

I think the thing about Blake Griffin is that people didn't appreciate how much he added to his game because Chris Paul's presence blocked a lot of his ability to use is as the main team strategy and then Griffin's body began to break down.

If the Clippers never acquire Paul, good chance Griffin is considerably more respected today.

We also don't know how much Griffin ends up adding to his game if he doesn't have Chris Paul and Doc Rivers.

Imagining him on the 1990s or 2000s Clippers and his career could have been far worse.

True, but I'm just saying I think we saw enough skillset wise to understand that he could have been an effective helio.

Of course as I say this, I don't think they'd have been as good without Paul, and that may have meant the Clippers never got out of the first round. Still, not hard to imagine a scenario where that still gives him a good argument over someone like TMac, and in general you never really see people venerating Griffin like they do TMac.

Well tbf nobody should be venerating TMac either.

But I get what you are saying. Before his body gave up on him he was a good midrange shooter and underrated passer in addition to being the freak rim attacker he was best known as. But with Paul less need or desire to run things through Griffin the way his teams likely do with a lessor PG. But is he essentially just an above the rim Julius Randle at that point and not really a true franchise player? I think yes.

[falcolombardi]

Blake Griffin was the sneak preview of this modern wave of bigs with guard skills. He was way ahead of his time, but neutral/casual fans never gave him credit because they were still stuck on antiquated notions of how a power forward should play back then.

Wait what? Griffin came along way behind other PF with guard skills. He definitely wasn't the first. And by the time he arrived people definitely weren't still thinking PF's should be Dale Davis or Danny Fortson. You already had to be able to space the floor in most cases. He was a rookie in 2010 not 1995.

He wasn't the first big to ever have guard skills, of course, nor did I say he was. He was just an early example of the new wave that Heej was talking about.

And you wouldn't believe how many casual fans I used to argue with who insisted that he had "no skills" and "could only dunk" because he wasn't playing like a '90s big man.

were you on basketball forums like insidehoops. circa 2013~?

cause you just gave me a flashback to all those arguments about how modern playwrs were "only" 3 and drive and guys , seemingly only post fades were real skill, everythingh else a perversión of basketball

also shouts out to "jumpshooting teams dont win rings" and "teams that dont run their offense through the post dont win rings

[Heej]

Jokic is insane. I saw that MF hit a Euro step hook shot over Capela and had to pause for a second. Made it look so easy haha. The NBA is gonna be INSANE in 10-15 years man. All these dudes with size have the skills of smalls now coming into the league. It's gonna get to the point where anyone under 6'3" getting into the league is gonna have to be a flawless player if they want to make the all Star team

Could you send me a link to this euro step hook shot?

Play starts at 1:25 just absolutely filthy

Watch on YouTube

[70sFan]

Jokic is insane. I saw that MF hit a Euro step hook shot over Capela and had to pause for a second. Made it look so easy haha. The NBA is gonna be INSANE in 10-15 years man. All these dudes with size have the skills of smalls now coming into the league. It's gonna get to the point where anyone under 6'3" getting into the league is gonna have to be a flawless player if they want to make the all Star team

Could you send me a link to this euro step hook shot?

Play starts at 1:25 just absolutely filthy

Watch on YouTube

Thanks!

Yeah, it was a tough shot, as he went up through the contact, almost onto defender. That said, I don't think it's the kind of play I've never seen before. I don't deny that Jokic is probably the most skilled center ever though.

[cupcakesnake]

Not sure if I agree with the generalities of these Blake Griffin takes.
In my memory, Blake's skill development was slow and steady. He took a looooong time to have a threatening jump shot and only peaked as an average 3-point shooter. It's not like he was special when he took a step inside the line either. I definitely think Blake looked the part in his final healthy moments. I'd marvel at how complete his game had become as a passer/shooter/decision maker. But what evidence is there that he was low-key that player on the Chris Paul Clippers? His assist% and TO% seem pretty tethered to each other, the shooting never becomes quite good.

I share this vague idea of Griffin but does it really hold up to scrutiny? Feels like he's getting very generous benefit of the doubt. I'm not convinced his skill set ever got to a level where it replaced the value of his early career rim pressure. I'll take his juicy free throw rate, 200 dunks per season, and rebounding rates (all start a steady decline at age 25). I don't believe his skill development every eclipsed that early value, and I think it was a big part of the Clippers going from a threat to win 60 games to more of a 50-win outfit. Skill-based Blake never got his day, and I'm not convinced that day would have been all that special.

[parsnips33]

The thing that most tells me Jokic is still underrated is nobody made a big deal of him getting swept out of the playoffs last year. Fair or not, guys as good as he is are typically dragged through the mud if they go out bad in a series. (I know his whole team was injured, not trying to put the loss on him at all, but that type of nuance is not usually applied when a superstar falters in the playoffs)

Maybe it's because he's in Denver? Whatever it is, the reaction to him getting swept told me people still aren't taking him seriously, when they absolutely should be.