If Steph wins MVP, Chip & Finals MVP this year where does he rank ?

[WarriorGM]

why do ppl put lebron so high?

Because brainwash by league, media, Nike happens.

If Steph wins again, without any questionable tampering, team constuction, superstar help, it is legitimate to ask what exactly puts LeBron above him, imho. To many people Steph not Bron may be the player of this generation. Not only focussing on the player but also how the game has changed - this is Stephs' league and the game went towards his finesse / crazy shooting style, not Brons' raw force / athleticism.

If steph wins another title and mvp how can anyone put Lebron ahead of him? You give Curry a real superstar to play next to in Kd and everyone whines it’s unfair. You put a real superstar next to Lebron and you might win a title less than 50% chance any given year. Lebron has always had more talent on his teams, Curry is just able to lift his talent he plays with to greater heights. I’m fully expecting by the end of the year they’re going to call this iteration of the warriors a super team like 2015. Haha

People already ignore that that 2015 team is actually one of the most unexpected championship teams in history. It was composed of youngsters and veterans who hadn't accomplished that much up to that time. Its most decorated player was David Lee! If the Warriors didn't do anything else afterward they would have been considered possibly the biggest fluke champion and probably thought of as having less stars than the 2004 Pistons. Even now I'm unconvinced that if you took Steph off that team it would be more than league average.

If Steph were to once again win a championship with this hastily rebuilt team—a team that was last in the league just two seasons previous—it would be as impressive as anything any of the other top ten players have done.

[SpreeChokeJob]

He has completely beaten all the supposed great players of this generation in head to head matchups. I’m sure his record is positive against all of them.

[Dutchball97]

The main thing holding Steph back is longevity. Out of the usual suspect top 11 guys 9 have played over 40k regular season minutes. Bird and Magic had their careers cut short but still had 34k and 33k minutes respectively, while Curry is at 26k at the moment. Modern players generally play a lower amount of minutes though and the play-offs are more important. I'd argue play-off WS is a pretty good indicator of all-time ranking as the top 9 is filled with actual top 10 guys, while Bird is 13th with 24.8 WS and Hakeem is 17th with 22.6 WS. Curry is currently 33rd with 17.1 WS so on that front he also still hasn't caught up.

This season, regardless of if he wins MVP and FMVP wouldn't change that. The longer he plays at this elite level though, the higher the chance he'll make the top 10 eventually.

[Ontario]

If Steph does all those things this year it does not change him as a human being whatsoever. People need to stop confusing "careers" with players.

A lot of circumstancial stuff goes into what does and doesn't happe to a guys career. Steph is the poster child for analytics and a wonderful person and player but the league that he is doing this in is off balance. The drive to get rid of foul baiting was a great start, now the league has to bring the outlandish advantage of the 3-pt. shock back in check.

[yesh]

Top 1 at least!

[warriorschamps]

Steph is going to be top 10 all time when his career is over regardless. Steph could end his career as the only unanimous mvp and a guy that was the leader of teams that win 65+ games so many times you lost count. Heck he could end up on two or three 70+ wins teams.

[Raonak]

The positioning doesn't matter.
Steph will go down as one of the most legendary players of the modern era (alongside Jordan and Lebron)
His GOAT shooting and "small" size makes him so unique.

[fanofthegreats]

why do ppl put lebron so high?

Because brainwash by league, media, Nike happens.

If Steph wins again, without any questionable tampering, team constuction, superstar help, it is legitimate to ask what exactly puts LeBron above him, imho. To many people Steph not Bron may be the player of this generation. Not only focussing on the player but also how the game has changed - this is Stephs' league and the game went towards his finesse / crazy shooting style, not Brons' raw force / athleticism.

If steph wins another title and mvp how can anyone put Lebron ahead of him? You give Curry a real superstar to play next to in Kd and everyone whines it’s unfair. You put a real superstar next to Lebron and you might win a title less than 50% chance any given year. Lebron has always had more talent on his teams, Curry is just able to lift his talent he plays with to greater heights. I’m fully expecting by the end of the year they’re going to call this iteration of the warriors a super team like 2015. Haha

False. People whined that prime KD and three other all stars in unfair. LeBron has never played with that level of talent in his team.

[fanofthegreats]

why do ppl put lebron so high?

It’s actually very reasonable to have LeBron in the top 2-3. Most actual analysis will come to the same range.

[WarriorGM]

The main thing holding Steph back is longevity. Out of the usual suspect top 11 guys 9 have played over 40k regular season minutes. Bird and Magic had their careers cut short but still had 34k and 33k minutes respectively, while Curry is at 26k at the moment. Modern players generally play a lower amount of minutes though and the play-offs are more important. I'd argue play-off WS is a pretty good indicator of all-time ranking as the top 9 is filled with actual top 10 guys, while Bird is 13th with 24.8 WS and Hakeem is 17th with 22.6 WS. Curry is currently 33rd with 17.1 WS so on that front he also still hasn't caught up.

This season, regardless of if he wins MVP and FMVP wouldn't change that. The longer he plays at this elite level though, the higher the chance he'll make the top 10 eventually.

Longevity? Playoffs win shares?

Rewards showing up in the playoffs on a consistent basis and filling up the box score. Favors players who had good teammates for the duration of their careers (Magic over Bird, Pippen at #14). Does not account for off ball contribution. Favors heliocentric players. Does not account for strength of competition (Magic over Bird). Does not account for knockout ability (Stockton at #20).

All of the above work against Curry and are biased against his style of play.

I understand why Curry has 3 championships already and Stockton has zero. You'll never understand why using the metrics you've cited. You could double the amount of years Stockton played and he might still have less. That would show how longevity actually proves the opposite of what you are claiming.

[Doranku]

The people saying "zErO FiNaLs MvPs" are so cringe. Curry was clearly the rightful 2015 FMVP and anyone with even the slightest modicum of basketball knowledge should understand that. Iggy winning the award is just proof that the award needs to be chosen through other means. 11 clueless media personalities clearly can't handle the task.

Iggy played well but he was not some iron defender responsible for shutting Bron down. Bron was averaging over 40 a game on 36 FGA in the first three games of the series before Iggy was inserted into the starting lineup. That is simply unsustainable production over a 7 game series against an elite defense while your best teammates are Timofey Mozgov and Matthew Dellavedova.

It's a shame something entirely out of Curry's control will be held against him for years to come. He deserved that 2015 FMVP.

[WarriorGM]

The people saying "zErO FiNaLs MvPs" are so cringe. Curry was clearly the rightful 2015 FMVP and anyone with even the slightest modicum of basketball knowledge should understand that. Iggy winning the award is just proof that the award needs to be chosen through other means. 11 clueless media personalities clearly can't handle the task.

Iggy played well but he was not some iron defender responsible for shutting Bron down. Bron was averaging over 40 a game on 36 FGA in the first three games of the series before Iggy was inserted into the starting lineup. That is simply unsustainable production over a 7 game series against an elite defense while your best teammates are Timofey Mozgov and Matthew Dellavedova.

It's a shame something entirely out of Curry's control will be held against him for years to come. He deserved that 2015 FMVP.

How is that award held anywhere close in esteem to the championship itself? It's like the "free" seat covers they give when you buy a car. The car is what has value not the seat covers. Anyone who believes that award is what has real value can probably be convinced that the seat covers are as valuable as the car.

[Mickey8]

I doubt he will win any of that this season. Jokic and Durant are having better seasons, and GS is overrated, they are having a good start but they had lots of weak opponents and many home games so far.

[Dutchball97]

The main thing holding Steph back is longevity. Out of the usual suspect top 11 guys 9 have played over 40k regular season minutes. Bird and Magic had their careers cut short but still had 34k and 33k minutes respectively, while Curry is at 26k at the moment. Modern players generally play a lower amount of minutes though and the play-offs are more important. I'd argue play-off WS is a pretty good indicator of all-time ranking as the top 9 is filled with actual top 10 guys, while Bird is 13th with 24.8 WS and Hakeem is 17th with 22.6 WS. Curry is currently 33rd with 17.1 WS so on that front he also still hasn't caught up.

This season, regardless of if he wins MVP and FMVP wouldn't change that. The longer he plays at this elite level though, the higher the chance he'll make the top 10 eventually.

Longevity? Playoffs win shares?

Rewards showing up in the playoffs on a consistent basis and filling up the box score. Favors players who had good teammates for the duration of their careers (Magic over Bird, Pippen at #14). Does not account for off ball contribution. Favors heliocentric players. Does not account for strength of competition (Magic over Bird). Does not account for knockout ability (Stockton at #20).

All of the above work against Curry and are biased against his style of play.

I understand why Curry has 3 championships already and Stockton has zero. You'll never understand why using the metrics you've cited. You could double the amount of years Stockton played and he might still have less. That would show how longevity actually proves the opposite of what you are claiming.

I did not think I had to explain using minutes played and a catch all stat like WS that goes all the way back to the 50s to include the likes of Wilt and Russell is only a part of the equation and mainly just a way to show how Curry hasn't played as much/contributed as much yet as the usual suspect top 11. Nobody in their right mind would argue Stockton ahead of Curry because of longevity. Longevity only really being a factor when comparing players of a similar level is another thing I thought I didn't have to explain.

I also hope you're not just using Curry's 3 championships as an argument for why he should be top 10 when 2 of those came with the most stacked team ever after you just tried to argue against rewarding playing on stacked teams with the play-off WS part.

The main thing I'm arguing is that when a player has significantly less minutes played than another player, the player with significantly less minutes would have to be a clearly better player to justify putting them ahead of the player with more minutes on an all-time list. Curry currently has a lot less time on the court than just about any other top 10 candidate and is even quite a bit behind Bird and Magic still. So how many of the usual suspect top 11 (MJ, LeBron, Kareem, Russell, Wilt, Duncan, Shaq, Kobe, Bird, Magic, Hakeem) do you think Curry is significantly better than to justify overcoming the longevity disadvantage as of now? Or do you not think this is a productive way of ranking players and after a certain threshold of longevity has been reached, the only thing that should matter is peak/prime?

[wegotthabeet]

The people saying "zErO FiNaLs MvPs" are so cringe. Curry was clearly the rightful 2015 FMVP and anyone with even the slightest modicum of basketball knowledge should understand that. Iggy winning the award is just proof that the award needs to be chosen through other means. 11 clueless media personalities clearly can't handle the task.

Iggy played well but he was not some iron defender responsible for shutting Bron down. Bron was averaging over 40 a game on 36 FGA in the first three games of the series before Iggy was inserted into the starting lineup. That is simply unsustainable production over a 7 game series against an elite defense while your best teammates are Timofey Mozgov and Matthew Dellavedova.

It's a shame something entirely out of Curry's control will be held against him for years to come. He deserved that 2015 FMVP.

That's fair I guess, but why didn't he win it the other two times? I get he got robbed in 2015. Durant is still clearly the better player.

[TheFutureMM]

Top 15 no question. The question becomes where-in there does he sit.

[WarriorGM]

The main thing holding Steph back is longevity. Out of the usual suspect top 11 guys 9 have played over 40k regular season minutes. Bird and Magic had their careers cut short but still had 34k and 33k minutes respectively, while Curry is at 26k at the moment. Modern players generally play a lower amount of minutes though and the play-offs are more important. I'd argue play-off WS is a pretty good indicator of all-time ranking as the top 9 is filled with actual top 10 guys, while Bird is 13th with 24.8 WS and Hakeem is 17th with 22.6 WS. Curry is currently 33rd with 17.1 WS so on that front he also still hasn't caught up.

This season, regardless of if he wins MVP and FMVP wouldn't change that. The longer he plays at this elite level though, the higher the chance he'll make the top 10 eventually.

Longevity? Playoffs win shares?

Rewards showing up in the playoffs on a consistent basis and filling up the box score. Favors players who had good teammates for the duration of their careers (Magic over Bird, Pippen at #14). Does not account for off ball contribution. Favors heliocentric players. Does not account for strength of competition (Magic over Bird). Does not account for knockout ability (Stockton at #20).

All of the above work against Curry and are biased against his style of play.

I understand why Curry has 3 championships already and Stockton has zero. You'll never understand why using the metrics you've cited. You could double the amount of years Stockton played and he might still have less. That would show how longevity actually proves the opposite of what you are claiming.

I did not think I had to explain using minutes played and a catch all stat like WS that goes all the way back to the 50s to include the likes of Wilt and Russell is only a part of the equation and mainly just a way to show how Curry hasn't played as much/contributed as much yet as the usual suspect top 11. Nobody in their right mind would argue Stockton ahead of Curry because of longevity. Longevity only really being a factor when comparing players of a similar level is another thing I thought I didn't have to explain.

I also hope you're not just using Curry's 3 championships as an argument for why he should be top 10 when 2 of those came with the most stacked team ever after you just tried to argue against rewarding playing on stacked teams with the play-off WS part.

The main thing I'm arguing is that when a player has significantly less minutes played than another player, the player with significantly less minutes would have to be a clearly better player to justify putting them ahead of the player with more minutes on an all-time list. Curry currently has a lot less time on the court than just about any other top 10 candidate and is even quite a bit behind Bird and Magic still. So how many of the usual suspect top 11 (MJ, LeBron, Kareem, Russell, Wilt, Duncan, Shaq, Kobe, Bird, Magic, Hakeem) do you think Curry is significantly better than to justify overcoming the longevity disadvantage as of now? Or do you not think this is a productive way of ranking players and after a certain threshold of longevity has been reached, the only thing that should matter is peak/prime?

If Curry wins a championship this year I would clearly put him ahead of Magic. I'd actually put him ahead right now but I can understand hesitance from others. Magic got to play on a stacked team his entire career in a weaker conference. Despite that that team did not reach the peak the Warriors did. Magic never really convincingly showed he could win with a team without all-time great teammates. Isiah Thomas was right there neck and neck with him in leading talented teams as a point guard when Kareem faded. Curry if he wins this year would be doing it twice.

[Doranku]

The people saying "zErO FiNaLs MvPs" are so cringe. Curry was clearly the rightful 2015 FMVP and anyone with even the slightest modicum of basketball knowledge should understand that. Iggy winning the award is just proof that the award needs to be chosen through other means. 11 clueless media personalities clearly can't handle the task.

Iggy played well but he was not some iron defender responsible for shutting Bron down. Bron was averaging over 40 a game on 36 FGA in the first three games of the series before Iggy was inserted into the starting lineup. That is simply unsustainable production over a 7 game series against an elite defense while your best teammates are Timofey Mozgov and Matthew Dellavedova.

It's a shame something entirely out of Curry's control will be held against him for years to come. He deserved that 2015 FMVP.

That's fair I guess, but why didn't he win it the other two times? I get he got robbed in 2015. Durant is still clearly the better player.

Durant outplaying Curry against one of the worst defensive teams to ever make the finals in both 2017 and 2018 doesn't make Durant clearly the better player. Before joining the Warriors, KD's playoff resume was very underwhelming. Have we forgotten that KD absolutely **** the bed while blowing a 3-1 lead against Steph's Warriors in 2016?

[Dutchball97]

Longevity? Playoffs win shares?

Rewards showing up in the playoffs on a consistent basis and filling up the box score. Favors players who had good teammates for the duration of their careers (Magic over Bird, Pippen at #14). Does not account for off ball contribution. Favors heliocentric players. Does not account for strength of competition (Magic over Bird). Does not account for knockout ability (Stockton at #20).

All of the above work against Curry and are biased against his style of play.

I understand why Curry has 3 championships already and Stockton has zero. You'll never understand why using the metrics you've cited. You could double the amount of years Stockton played and he might still have less. That would show how longevity actually proves the opposite of what you are claiming.

I did not think I had to explain using minutes played and a catch all stat like WS that goes all the way back to the 50s to include the likes of Wilt and Russell is only a part of the equation and mainly just a way to show how Curry hasn't played as much/contributed as much yet as the usual suspect top 11. Nobody in their right mind would argue Stockton ahead of Curry because of longevity. Longevity only really being a factor when comparing players of a similar level is another thing I thought I didn't have to explain.

I also hope you're not just using Curry's 3 championships as an argument for why he should be top 10 when 2 of those came with the most stacked team ever after you just tried to argue against rewarding playing on stacked teams with the play-off WS part.

The main thing I'm arguing is that when a player has significantly less minutes played than another player, the player with significantly less minutes would have to be a clearly better player to justify putting them ahead of the player with more minutes on an all-time list. Curry currently has a lot less time on the court than just about any other top 10 candidate and is even quite a bit behind Bird and Magic still. So how many of the usual suspect top 11 (MJ, LeBron, Kareem, Russell, Wilt, Duncan, Shaq, Kobe, Bird, Magic, Hakeem) do you think Curry is significantly better than to justify overcoming the longevity disadvantage as of now? Or do you not think this is a productive way of ranking players and after a certain threshold of longevity has been reached, the only thing that should matter is peak/prime?

If Curry wins a championship this year I would clearly put him ahead of Magic. I'd actually put him ahead right now but I can understand hesitance from others. Magic got to play on a stacked team his entire career in a weaker conference. Despite that that team did not reach the peak the Warriors did. Magic never really convincingly showed he could win with a team without all-time great teammates. Curry if he wins this year would be doing it twice.

I agree Magic vs Curry is starting to become a discussion worth having in a career sense but I'm not sure you can confidently say Curry's supporting cast in 2015 with Klay, Dray and Iggy was significantly worse than what Magic had in 87 and 88 with Worthy and a 40 year old Kareem.

[WarriorGM]

The people saying "zErO FiNaLs MvPs" are so cringe. Curry was clearly the rightful 2015 FMVP and anyone with even the slightest modicum of basketball knowledge should understand that. Iggy winning the award is just proof that the award needs to be chosen through other means. 11 clueless media personalities clearly can't handle the task.

Iggy played well but he was not some iron defender responsible for shutting Bron down. Bron was averaging over 40 a game on 36 FGA in the first three games of the series before Iggy was inserted into the starting lineup. That is simply unsustainable production over a 7 game series against an elite defense while your best teammates are Timofey Mozgov and Matthew Dellavedova.

It's a shame something entirely out of Curry's control will be held against him for years to come. He deserved that 2015 FMVP.

That's fair I guess, but why didn't he win it the other two times? I get he got robbed in 2015. Durant is still clearly the better player.

Durant outplaying Curry against one of the worst defensive teams to ever make the finals in both 2017 and 2018 doesn't make Durant clearly the better player. Before joining the Warriors, KD's playoff resume was very underwhelming. Have we forgotten that KD absolutely **** the bed while blowing a 3-1 lead against Steph's Warriors in 2016?

We saw what happened in that 2016 series. Curry's explosiveness overwhelmed Durant's consistency. That's why that 2018 FMVP showed utter ignorance from the ones giving it. Anyone who held Steph's poor game 3 against him but did not recognize the overpowering firepower in games 2 and 4 failed to grasp what proved more decisive in an actual series where the distinction mattered.